Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by JuggernautFan
and its been proven many more times that he is -physically- indestructable. there are ways to hurt him. but not physically.

That's not true. Thor and Hulk have hurt him physically. Again, it takes a superior force to hurt him, but it can be done.

his mystical-ness isnt a force in the first place so how can a physical force overcome it??? you cannot surpass it unless you are so powerful than you can make literally impossible things happen. this is going to happen when you are talking about extremely powerful beings like eternity. can hulk do it??? can hulk hit so hard he makes reality buckle?? can hulk hit so hard that he can make things fall up??? can hulk hit so hard that he makes ice catch on fire??? can hulk hit so hard that he can make fish drown in water??? can hulk hit so hard that he causes physical harm to juggernaut??? NO he cannot.

Of course it's a force: it's a mystical force. 'Force' doesn't mean physical. As for impossible things, there's no such thing as impossibility in comics. I think if anything THAT fact has been proven a hundred thousand times over. This is a world where people come back from the dead more often than soap opera characters, where aliens are about as unusual as a hangnail, and god-like beings interacting with Captain America are apparently believable. Thor is a god and Hulk is a vessel of limitless power, thus they are capable of doing the 'impossible.' Hulk has never tried to make reality buckle, but he has done things nobody else can do. What do you mean make things fall up? He has sent things into orbit if that's what you mean. I don't read enough Hulk to know whether he's capable of setting ice on fire, but he has the power to do it if it can be done. Hulk can make fish drown in water if he beats the hell out of the fish, lol. Hulk can and HAS hit Juggernaut so hard that he hurts him. He ripped his helmet off, Thor ripped his helmet off; when that's done, Juggernaut can be hurt.

to which hulk DID fight back. and hulk has only won being exponentially boosted by 2 universes of engergies and celestial tech allowing him to harness it. whats your point???

No, Hulk fought him to a standstill another time, but he thought he won. That counts.

he hasnt "beat the holy hell out of juggernaut". you are the kind of person that reads half the story then assumes he knows everything about it. please state one issue where he beats the holy hell out of juggernaut on his own power?? this should be interesting.

I have no idea the issue number, I don't have it. It was on one of the past threads, or maybe this one, I don't remember. Hulk ripped Juggernaut's helmet off and send him flying into a mountain. That's beating the holy hell out of him as far as Juggernaut can be holy-hell beaten.

the whole hulk can physically harm juggernaut is absurd....

No, again. He did.

its also what hulks writers claim with the incident in hulk 404. hulk cannot harm juggernaut physically.

Is that the issue where the fight I'm talking about took place? If so, I don't care what the writers said, they illustrated it quite differently. You don't say one thing and do another.

thor damaged him by negating -most- of his powers. then he would theoretically be harming cain marko. he could never harm the JUGGERNAUT. neither could hulk. i have read and still do read his appearances. i think its you who should take a look at them, and if you have read them do so a little closer. this would be a good fight, but hulk CANT hurt juggernaut. simple as that.

Comic books are not literature, you don't really have to read them 'a little closer.' Hulk slamming fist into Juggernaut, Juggernaut's face contorting and grimacing in pain, and said body flying through air is sufficient to get the idea across. As for Thor never hurting Juggernaut, yes you've said anyone can be the Juggernaut and all that, but the fact is, Cain Marko IS the Juggernaut of the Marvel Universe. It isn't a case of a real being. It's a character. Thor can hurt the character. There would not BE a Juggernaut without a host. You're right, you can't hurt the mystical aura of the Juggernaut because it doesn't exist without a host to support it. Otherwise it's just a concept. But the fact is, when it is a character and not a concept, Thor can and has harmed it. As has Hulk.

See, that's why I hate that god-damned 'breaking up the quotes' thing. I'm not wasting ten minutes to respond. I said many things inside the quote box, so don't just assume I ignored the rest of your comments. They're there, just mixed with your words. It's getting to be too much work to post here, lol.

cant argue with that (i had to say it)

Hulk has hit jugs in almost every fight resulting with jugs diplaying pain or flying through air...when i figure out how to post pictures from my computer i will show it

Originally posted by Abaddon
I'm sorry, let me make it up to you. I'll get you some knee pads for those long nights with Juggernaut. Here's a fact: your retarted.

Instead of immature personal insults, here's another way of explaining it.

You hit Ironman in the head with a claw hammer. It does nothing because he's in the suit.

Cutting Cain off from his power is like removing Tony from the armor. That same hammer could kill Tony. It just so happens that Cain had enough energies left with him to continue until his power was restored.

It's weird like that. I think now he's disconnected with the X-Men but he still retains some of his powers.

Originally posted by Abaddon
I'm sorry, let me make it up to you. I'll get you some knee pads for those long nights with Juggernaut. Here's a fact: your retarted.

hehehe....what is this thread coming to?

who knows how to just post a picture that is in ur computer MY PICTURES

Without having it hosted somewhere? If you hit the "add reply" button in the lower right, there's a box for uploading a picture at the bottom.

wait, lower right of what page?

On this page. There's this quick reply box that I'm typing in right now and to the lower right there's "New Topic" and "Add Reply"

do i go down to attach file when im in there?

Yes or you can upload it to a image hoster such as www.imageshack.us and use the IMG tags

http://img63.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img63&image=jugshulk1.jpg

here go some more examples of Jugs looking vulnerable...before Onslaught

...

hmm...it appears to have reverse two of my pics

He's still in one piece though.

Doc Sampson's still in one piece too but no one said he' invulnerable or unstoppable...he got punched in the stomach and fell to his knees in the first pic

cool pics

Damn, I'm gone for a day and four pages pop up on here. And from what I've seen, half of these pages are full of absolute nonsense. Come on, most of y'all are grown ass men, try acting like it. And JugFan isn't a mindless fanboy as you might believe Abaddon. He'll defend Juggernaut when he knows he's capable of winning, no doubt, but he has no problem admitting when someone's too much for Juggernaut to handle, like I do. I'm a Juggernaut fan myself, and I'll defend Juggernaut just the same, but that doesn't mean that I don't know when Juggernaut can't be beat, and JugFan knows that too. So if y'all got any relevant points to make concerning this fight, please make them, otherwise, all the bashing is pretty damn childish (although I know most of y'all are young, it's still no excuse).

Now, mercilous, Juggernaut punching through dimensions, that happened in Juggernaut: Eighth Day, I'll let y'all look up the details though. And Thing getting knocked out with three blows from Juggernaut, that was Secret Wars 2, I'll let you check that also. And Swank, no Juggernaut and Gladiator never fought in the mainstream, or been in the same comic together. That was just the cartoon, which holds little legitimacy here. And wrath, no Hulk doesn't have telepathic powers, Swank was being a smartass, lol.

Now, I still want to know where this "you can kill Juggernaut if you hit him with something stronger than the magic given to him" crap is coming from, cause it smells like bullsh*t to me. Cyttorak doesn't spend his day pumping whatever power he feels like into Juggernaut, his powers are set to be what they are. It's magic, that's how it works. His power makes him physically indestructable, plain and simple. There's no indestructable to a certain point, it's made to be what it is, as long as he's connected to his power that's what it'll always be. It's been said through comics a few times, even Onslaught said he couldn't kill him because he was indestructable while connected to his powers. So unless someone could prove otherwise, this power threshold thing is just b.s. to me.

And the new guy, EgoPrime, made a pretty good point, close to what I said about 15 pages back. Only thing is Juggernaut isn't smart enough to try to calm Hulk down, and he probably wouldn't try anyways, and I doubt Hulk would turn back to Banner during this kind of fight, unless Juggernaut can score a quick knock-out, which he has been proven to be capable of, whether y'all like it or not.

Like I said pages back, the are rivals in physical power, probably the only two on Earth that can match each other. And their separate respective powers are what would keep then in the fight longer, and make it difficult for the other. It can go either way as I've said, but, like JugFan said, Hulk's not hurting Juggernaut, regardless of what y'all think (yeah he's shown facial expressions in their fights, but of course they can't just show him with a straight face while getting hit by one of Marvel's flagship characters (no one bring up Spidey), they can't just no-sale Hulk like that, they at least gotta show that Juggernaut's getting hit, whether it hurts or not). And I believe Hulk can eventually overpower Juggernaut, but it would take him a very long time to do so, since in their fights (minus War) they've always been shown as physical matches for each other. Even while Hulk was enraged in their first fight Juggernaut was still taking Hulk's best and giving back just as much. Like I've said before, Hulk's best bet is to take Juggernaut out of the fight, via ringout, by whatever means he can (and I don't mean throw him somewhere cause that's just as easy for Juggernaut also).

Basically, it can go either way between the two. Hulk's has the potential for massive strength, but that alone is NOT gonna kill or knock out Juggernaut. Anyone can state that Thor got the best at Juggernaut, or Nimrod, the X-Men, whoever, remember that Hulk is none of these people and his powers and abilities are far different. A great battle, whichever way it goes.