Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Tough Guy
er hulk v juggie has never seen hulk as angry as he was against onslaught, just saying he was insanely angry, well er yeah, he can also get angrier and stronger, he has no limit, and er juggie fan who r u to start setting limits to hulkspowers

oh you mean in hulk/juggernauts first encounter hulk wasnt described as "being on the virge of insanity" with rage??? or that hulk was enraged farther by an army batallion and witnessing juggernaut trying to kill a family?? all things that made him MAD. hmmm, i think juggernaut has seen hulk mad... not that it matters.

and who are you to start setting limits to juggernauts power?? hulks writers say its limitless... juggernaut says its limitless alot of people say its limitless... but thats all moot because you said it had a limit right???

i set limits for hulk cause he has never defeated juggernaut on his own power. what more do i need to set a limit?

good god man, look u cannot argue with the fact my dear boy, hulk is limitless in strength, whatever mervel office chat is, so u can really only be stronger at a base level END thats a fact, and if u have hulk spitting mad and not getting to ( his true potential was once asked to be elaberated and it came back that it is comparable to a supernova)something like a major disaster, that didnt happen in his fights with juggie, so that is bad writing, other than hulk is always insane and can always go more insane. what can juggie do to beat hulk????????? no answer, war 2 universe, er hulk draws infinite limitless energy, why would funneling from 2 universes be a flipping advantage, like saying juggie has been upgraded and instead of limitless invulnerability has to siphone energy from somewhere else.
look my ppint is simply this, if we take the characters based soley on their powers, what they were created with and not on comics which are far to inconsistant ( onslaught mopped up with juggie who couldnt scratch him, hulk bust his armour) then you have a predicament. I know juggie has no known limit to his strength, but he has a limit, hulk was not created with that in mind im afraid so he can get stronger, and there is no reason why he wouldnt as he only needs anger, and grows incredibly quickly. yes he couldnt hurt juggie , without some celestial magic ( like war where he then has the ability to harm, behead juggie) but would still match then surpass physicaaly and throw juggie somewhere, or maybe well see a new level of hulk strength where he can over come even the magic of cytorak, hulks strength has that possibility by being limitLESS. even most juggie fan pages see hulk as his equal physically, of course he can always go above his physical level with increased anger. as for stopping juggie , then no, hulk would need some celestial power as he got as war to break the magic of juggie, and thats what it is magic, not physical strength, magic. then it would be simple for hulk to beat juggie on a purely physical level as he would have limitless bounds to go on strength, juggie would im afraid have a limit. so juggies magic give him the ability to keep moving in a direction that not even a savage hulk would stop, and keeps him invulnerable, neither of those hulk topping powers would be enough to beat him,
* war hundreds of thousands times stronger base rate, r u sure, no one knows how high hulks base strength was lifted, he seemed to get back to normal quite quickly afterwsrds somehow, whered all the celestial power go lol, maybe it was in his sword. i think we need to see war as simply a show of what hulks limitless powercan do, like an 8th day juggie kind of thing, i wouldnt pay too much attention to this 2 universe strngth jargon, hulk has lmitless potential in this universe, though hulks limitless strength does come trans dimensionaly either way it cant have had much effect other than increase wars base strength as any hulk has limitless strength to tap into, im not worried about comic indescrepencies as if they stay true to hulks character hed never lose a physical battle

oh and tossing around pyramids is not outside of a normal hulk capability, he only lifted it for goodness sake. i grow weary too of this argument , i think marvel need to be more consistant and stay true to the nature of hulk, he really has no physical equal just by the nature of his power and possibilities it gives him, as for juggie, let him keep running in that same direction, run forest run.

Juggernaut is the only earthbound character that can go toe to toe with the Hulk. This fight can end any way I have seen Hulk beat Juggy and Juggy give Hulk some nap time. Its really a 50/50 fight.

on other words writers have enough to give the fight to either based on their character, vote hulk u vote juggie, i have infinite strength, u infinite cytorak, go and put together a team oof 13 heros on my thread juggie fan so i can argue with u about whether hulk or juggie goes in

e mail me sometime with something for me to ponder at work

what one editor says doesnt really impress me...I know that Cyttorak is not limitless in power...he is near a skyfather in power...and in the MU that isnt considered limitless at all. If that same editor said the Hulk was purple and not green am i supposed to believe him? no its just ignorance...plenty of editors have limited knowledge of the MU.

regardless Jugs is dead for all we know right now.

Hopefully he comes back normal. i would love that 🙂 as for toughguy... i didnt read your post, looked to long and would have taken to much of my time to read it.

as for my opinion... its all through this thread. you are bringing up nothing new, i'm sure i've seen it all somewhere in these many pages.

You've fought a good fight JugFan, go get yourself some Gatorade and take a breather. Yeah Tough Guy, you really haven't brought up nothing new. You've been challenged on many of the things you've said, even disproved on some things, but you're simply repeating the same stuff you said pages ago. And, you haven't really brought in any real facts, quotes, issue numbers, anything; so it sounds to me that all those long paragraphs are nothing but your opinion. How can Juggernaut beat Hulk? The same way he did last time, pretty simple really. Their first fight was inconclussive, but it was pretty obvious that Juggernaut was getting the best of the Hulk, unless you totally read off those parts and just looked at all the good things Hulk did. The second fight (whether you call Juggernaut a cheater by not wearing his armor or not) was very conclussive though: Juggernaut knocked Hulk out! You can call it what you want, but he did it, and on his own power, against the Hulk's own power, whether you buy it or not. But, I'm done arguing with you Tough Guy, you're simply repeating the same things over and over, without even putting up anything to make your statements stronger. I like Hulk, don't get me wrong, he's on my top 10 of favorite characters. But, based on their respective powers and past, I give the fight to Juggernaut on most days. And juggernaut74, that's what I said months ago too, it depends on the situation, and who's lucky day it is. It can go either way, but with the scale more in Juggernaut's favor. END

Why would it matter if wynddar or tough guy said he cheated by wearing street cloths in the fight. Their first fight hulk ripped off juggernauts helmet it would prove hulk is an idiot if he cant remember a face. Right???????? Besides what is his famous quote "Hulk no like, Hulk smash!!!!!

I keep hearing it would be a stalemate untill hulk reached juggernauts strength, Ok lets think on that for a second, If hulk has to climb drastically to reach juggernauts strength why would it be a stalemate? When juggernaut hits him hulk will be dazed and it will hurt like hell, He will probably here a buzzing, I mean come on if juggernaut hits hulk he isnt going to get up like it didnt even happen, it will take him a while. Sure hulk can take it and more but how much more.

I look at it like this pretend for a sec. Lets say someone walkes up to you and hits you as hard as he could with a base ball bat, Do you get angry or do you cry or become unconscious. Im not saying hulk would start to cry but think about it.

I keep hearing it would be a stalemate untill hulk reached juggernauts strength,

I meant until he significantly surpassed it.

All u guys r showing is a blatant ignorance to hulks powers END, i was happy to leave it as a differnece of opinion yet no u want to be little my argument, then fine, i repeat myself simply as u guys tron, juggie fan only state opinion to my points, and thats all u can state,.
* juggie knocked out prof hulk, er no limitless strength/healing well done ( thats sarcasm)
* any other fight to my recollection has ended in a away both parties can walk away with pride, so really they are inconclusive
*war is the only ass whipping and of course to even it up for juggie we have this whole raised base rate of strength and some celestil power, also war is really an unknown chracter, not seen b4 or since and not really a major part of hulk.
* mu say this or that is hearsay, not fact and said to cause controversy, hence these boards, and that wed all rush to buy a juggie v hulk next time as hulk fans would want this to be proved wrong.
*if u cant be bothered to read my posts thats fine, shows u cant argue ur case clearly as ill stop repeating when i see a reasonably answer , not just a willful opinion that does not answer my point satisfactarally, ie hulk on the verge of insanity , oh that proves he cant get madder???? no so dont say it.
*ive read many bios of juggie, his official 1 on marvels web page does not state limitless STRENGTH ( like hulks, but power) and his powers are, i believe, running in a direction (oohhhhhh what a great power) and having the power to bee nigh on infinite in his invincibility, together with strength that has no known limit, ( known limit, not infinite) now he has no weapons were talking savage hulk here, how is juggie gonna win,
*hulk is incredibly durable, and gets more durable tha madder stronger he gets, durable enough to handle a juggie punch,
* once again my point is simple and u cant argue with it tron or juggie fan, hulk has no equal on physical strength as he is limitless, juggie might have limitless magic protecring him and enabling him to run in a certain direction but thats not punchin power my dear boy END
* so hulk cnat hurt juggie, i dont think jugie would hutrt a pissed savage hulk, hed certainly be pissed if he was punched by juggie, so it comes down to grappling etc and thas about physical power and hulk would just throw juggie somewhere safe.
Wynndar id be interested in your view of my argument, that ive been making now for simply pages with no intelligent rebuke, other than marvel office hearsay, some lamely written comic stories that prove nothing for either team, as i think a logical view from looking at the powers of these 2 is the only way we can draw any kind of conclusions.
* be rude to me tron or juggie fan and ill hunt u down and kick ur arses, 2 of u wont save u from my anger lol

talon, shut up, do u know how quickly hulk escalates in strength, if u do please tell m as your argument is based on hulk having to wait ages to get stronger or sorry as strong as juggie. come to think of it we dont know juggies limit in strength, it might be only 500 tonne class, in which case hulk has shown ( bracing a whole freaking mountain) that he gets that strong in secs

Originally posted by Tough Guy
talon, shut up, do u know how quickly hulk escalates in strength, if u do please tell m as your argument is based on hulk having to wait ages to get stronger or sorry as strong as juggie. come to think of it we dont know juggies limit in strength, it might be only 500 tonne class, in which case hulk has shown ( bracing a whole freaking mountain) that he gets that strong in secs

hulk didnt brace 150 billion tons 😉 its been discussed in the thread. so has the anger issue. READ. but again, let me tell you since you missed it.

in thier first encounter hulk had been raging for nearly 2 days and was unable to break free from his cell. juggernaut helped him break free. hulk was then angred farther by an army batallion and the fact that juggernaut was going to kill an innocent family. he was still angered yet again by juggernauts mean-ness.... if thats a word. so all these things were making him angry, but somehow hulk is stronger????

so much for how fast he can escalate... but this is simply repeating myself.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
All u guys r showing is a blatant ignorance to hulks powers END,

actually we arent. you are showing a blatant ignorance to juggernauts power. because i've shown you that the writers said juggernauts power was unlimited. that he was -probably stronger-. this isnt just SOME writer off the streets that doesnt know the first thing about hulk or juggernauts power. that was peter david that said those thing 😉

Originally posted by Tough Guy
i was happy to leave it as a differnece of opinion yet no u want to be little my argument, then fine, i repeat myself simply as u guys tron, juggie fan only state opinion to my points,

and this isnt an opinion above?? or an opinion all the way through this post??? its all YOUR opinion. we have given facts also. hulk was MAD in thier first encounter. deal with it. he wasnt as strong as juggie. deal with it. juggernaut trounced *on his own power* deal with it. hulk hasnt beatne juggernaut *on his own power* deal with it.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
and thats all u can state,.
* juggie knocked out prof hulk, er no limitless strength/healing well done ( thats sarcasm)

yes... juggernaut did. all you can state is that we dont know hulks powers when its obviously the case that we do 😉

Originally posted by Tough Guy
* any other fight to my recollection has ended in a away both parties can walk away with pride, so really they are inconclusive

hulk didnt walk away in 402 😉

Originally posted by Tough Guy
*war is the only ass whipping and of course to even it up for juggie we have this whole raised base rate of strength and some celestil power, also war is really an unknown chracter, not seen b4 or since and not really a major part of hulk.

not a major part of hulk, but a majorly POWERFUL hulk. so where is it that you start inserting facts as to why you think hulk would win???

Originally posted by Tough Guy
* mu say this or that is hearsay, not fact and said to cause controversy, hence these boards, and that wed all rush to buy a juggie v hulk next time as hulk fans would want this to be proved wrong.

well of coarse they obviously want you to buy the comics... whats your point??? but if the writers are saying it... and juggernaut is obviously proving it. what more do you want ???

Originally posted by Tough Guy
*if u cant be bothered to read my posts thats fine, shows u cant argue ur case clearly as ill stop repeating when i see a reasonably answer ,

its not that we CANT answer... its because we already DID answer. like i said, you havnt brought anything new to the table. its all in this thread somewhere. its 70 some odd pages long. its all there.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
not just a willful opinion that does not answer my point satisfactarally, ie hulk on the verge of insanity , oh that proves he cant get madder???? no so dont say it.

we didnt say he couldnt get madder 😉 we said he already had sufficient time to be angry. enough that... by your logic should have been able to over power juggernaut. but couldnt

Originally posted by Tough Guy
*ive read many bios of juggie, his official 1 on marvels web page does not state limitless STRENGTH ( like hulks, but power)

nobody said he had unlimited strength. but the bios do say the upper limits to his -strength- are unknown. he has never been successfully manhandled, or ran into something he couldnt push/pull/lift/overpower.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
and his powers are, i believe, running in a direction (oohhhhhh what a great power) and having the power to bee nigh on infinite in his invincibility,

this is why i skip your posts. you state that you have facts... this is just pathetic. us juggernaut defenders can simply counter with hulk has the power to leap away from the fight (running away in a different form) because hes scared. this is really pathetic...

Originally posted by Tough Guy
together with strength that has no known limit, ( known limit, not infinite) now he has no weapons were talking savage hulk here, how is juggie gonna win,

just like he already has...

Originally posted by Tough Guy
*hulk is incredibly durable, and gets more durable tha madder stronger he gets, durable enough to handle a juggie punch,

see, now you are making this up. please show me anywhere that says he gets more durable. hulks ability is the madder he gets the stronger he gets. not the madder he gets the more resiliant he gets.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
* once again my point is simple and u cant argue with it tron or juggie fan, hulk has no equal on physical strength as he is limitless,

juggernaut/destroyer/mangog/gladiator/champion could all be argued as hulks equal if not superior. even thanos... you are simply WRONG.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
juggie might have limitless magic protecring him and enabling him to run in a certain direction but thats not punchin power my dear boy END

his punching power was obviously enough to put hulk down 😉 unlike hulks punching power which would never cause juggernaut harm... NEVER. your arguements are lame and this again is why i skip your posts. juggernaut doesnt run, and he wouldnt run.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
* so hulk cnat hurt juggie, i dont think jugie would hutrt a pissed savage hulk,

savage hulk was REALLY PISSED, and juggernaut DID hurt him 😉

Originally posted by Tough Guy
hed certainly be pissed if he was punched by juggie, so it comes down to grappling etc and thas about physical power and hulk would just throw juggie somewhere safe.

riiiiiiiight. and juggernaut would break hulks neck and leave him to heal... to which juggernaut would simply walk off laughing at his easy victory. you cant "what if" like this. you have to use what has happened instead of what you think would happen 😉

Originally posted by Tough Guy
Wynndar id be interested in your view of my argument, that ive been making now for simply pages with no intelligent rebuke,

he's stated his opinion also. we have went into detail about it all through the thread. him and i both have. along with the others that are still posting here. it is 70 + pages long after all...

Originally posted by Tough Guy
other than marvel office hearsay, some lamely written comic stories that prove nothing for either team,

so peter david is a lame writer?? and you see what i mean by bad writing?? everything juggernaut does is "bad writing" because thats all you have to fall back on. where is all these facts that you are supposed to be spilling out left and right?? this is ALL your opinion. every bit of it. this entire damn post is nothing but tough guy opinion.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
as i think a logical view from looking at the powers of these 2 is the only way we can draw any kind of conclusions.

that and what they have already did against each other... in a physical brawl, the one that cant be physically defeated should be favored. also the one that just happens to be stronger (going off evidence in thier previous fights). so whats you point again?? oh wait you dont have one except juggernaut can run in one direction forever... which is pathetic.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
* be rude to me tron or juggie fan and ill hunt u down and kick ur arses, 2 of u wont save u from my anger lol

do you want my address?? 🙂

I just wanna know where it says anything you've mentioned on the official Marvel site, cause I don't see a word of it on either Hulk or Juggernaut's bios. It doesn't say limitless strength for Juggernaut, but it doesn't say limitless for Hulk either. Do I smell bullsh*t? Anyways, all we've done is look at it logically. I 've already stated my reasons in my decision so I won't get into that again. And us showing a blatant ignorance in Hulk's power? We've all stated Hulk's power, and Juggernaut's power, so I don't see how you came to that conclussion, unless you couldn't think of anything better to say. If anything, like JugFan said, it's YOU who is being blatantly ignorant towards Juggernaut's powers, or just ignoring them completely and picking and choosing words from "Marvel's official site." And, an unknown strength limit may not be "potentially" limitless strength, but it's still "unknown," meaning you just don't know how powerful Juggernaut truly is. After all, a significantly weakened Juggernaut was able to tear off the corner or a building and swing it around like a bat, and hold on to Rogue's throat with one hand while smacking around Colossus with the other. And as for Juggernaut beating Professor Hulk, that version is no different physically from Savage Hulk (who Juggernaut's already gotten the best of), and has the "potentially" limitless strength like his too, only difference being he doesn't have the temper (though he is suppose to start off stronger). And that brings me to a comment you made also:

"* any other fight to my recollection has ended in a away both parties can walk away with pride, so really they are inconclusive "

Now, you must not be countign Hulk #402 for some reason. Oh well, I won't get int it, I hope you got my point. Anyways, like I've said, you're just repeatign yourself, with no new info, or anything to back up your claims, which is what we've been doing for quite a while. But, you've completely written off any proof we've brought, but have given no proof of your own. That's what's making it hard to take your threads serious (and why JugFan's not really reading you're threads). We're arguing our case just fine, given you pics, quotes, etc., but you're bringing nothing new, just the same old arguements that have been said throughout this thread, which have been easily challenged. Now Wynndar may not agree also, but at least he can put up a good debate, and actually not repeat himself unless he has to. Anyways, I've said my peace, now I'm going to bed. Give me something worth reading, and I might acknowledge it.

And, if you wanna know, I'm at Anderson Air Force Base in Guam. You can find me on the strip of Tumon Bay Friday night.😉

END

oh how i do hate that END thing he does in his threads... like it makes a difference. "when he puts his foot down" sort of thing...

ignorance.

Yeah I know. I think im gonna start saying "WORD" at the end of my sentences, just for the hell of it, lol.

lol... whatever floats your boat i guess...

how is it over in guam by the way?