Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
When a comic doesn't "go your way" its always bad writing...When your favoriter character gets his butt tossed around and begs for his mere life its "bad writing"..

it was bad writing... altogether. not just dealing with the juggernaut. there were plot holes galore.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Like someone has already said one to many times on this board, it's almost impossible to argue with a "fan"..

yes, you are hopeless.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
They'll always twist your logic and manipulate your own reason to their own desire and MAKE it seem like they have a point,

its funny how you have to turn on me, because you can no longer think of anything 😉

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
when they only end up sounding more and more like a fan in the PROcess..

i am a fan of juggernaut... and hulk... and the asgardian destroyer... and mangog... and a bunch of other people. irrelavant.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
We've seen(the thing, hercules, Thor,Strong guy) DO strong things but yet we haven't deemed their strength infinite..

but we've seen limits to some of these people also. thor has also physically matched hulk. so how is it that you conclude that hulks strength is "infinite"??? he cant even overpower who's strength is "finite".

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Just because jugg's strength is irrmeasurable doesn't make it infinite,

but it does make him stronger than hulk... as apparent in ALL thier battles. except when hulk was rediculously powered up.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
its just "never been measured", no writer actually ever really cared enough to state on Jugg's power to deem it infinite..

except hulks writer. which is really not helping your arguement any at all. what does it mean to you when hulks writer says Juggernaut is probably stronger?? probably nothing as its in one ear and out the other.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
So like the many "strong guys" of marvel WITH the exception of the hulk, his strength is "understood" to be finite...

there are many that could be considered just as strong/stronger than hulk.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
the limit of Juggernauts strength was shown in the Onslaught battle,

actually it wasnt shown at all.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
if he was so strong then why couldn't he managed even the "slightest" offensive in that battle?

well 1) he was without his helmet, that protects him from telepathic assault 2) he was up against a telepath. onslaught could do whatever he wanted to juggernaut at that point. why do you work around these little details? on top of that... the telepath that was doing the mind warping knew of juggernaut and his powers, and was well aware of his capabilities. onslaught also defeated hulk in the end in the same manner. something you over looked 😉 after the armor was cracked, hulk was killed also with the phsychic *spelling* energies. only to be saved by franklin richards.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
His limit wasn't "enough" for Onslaught...Hulk's was...the sad truth(at least to a Juggy fan)...Face it...come to terms with it...

they were 2 totally different battles, fought in 2 totally different manners. i believe the saying goes "apples and oranges". i think you should get the picture.

JuggFan: Now you're questioning whether the hulk's strength is infinite or not, when can you come to terms with "reality" look at the poll, this debate is over, hulk came out the winner..plain and simple..🙂

Now, I'm not trying to tick you off in anyway, this is everyday debating to me(if I did then it was unintentional)..BUT you can't simple sit there and manipulate facts and reason..

Although some comics have indeed "bad writing" that doesn't make them "unusable", they still gather as much credit as the next comic, so you saying that the whole Onslaught ordeal was bad writing is completely irrelevant..It's kinda like it may be a breeding ground for plot holes BUT it is still "official"..

Make assumptions based on Facts, not on fan-oriented:
Fact: The hulk toppled Onslaught, Juggernaut couldn't(regardless of ANY circumstances)

Fact:Juggernaut at base strength IS MORE powerful than the hulk BUT not powerful enough to beat him "effortlessly", Hulk's base strength is too close to Jugg's power for that to occur..

Fact:Hulk's power is infinite, no if's ands or buts about it, go see "every bio" and you will know what I'm talking about..Jugg's power being infinite has NOT been stated "anywhere"

When these two guys battle it out blow for blow the fight always ends with an sudden interruption or circumstance, they never truly battle to the death..Think about this for one second, both are slugging each other back and forth NO sides seems to be giving in, both guys are immensely strong but ONE's power stops at a certain point the OTHER's power continues to rise, now WHO's going to come out on top?? Keep in mind the fight is already even on both sides as shown in "all" their previous fights, no side is physically invulnerable from the other, Juggernaut will eventually reach his limit, the hulk WILL NOT...that's a fact...

and no Hulk doesn't have to gather "ALOT" of strength just to match Marco, he's already there, and no Jugg's is not invulnerable to Hulk's attacks...the only difference I can began to distinguish from the two is that one's power doesn't stop!! One heals almost rapidly and is loads quicker..Now who would you pick if'n you didn't know both heroes??

im back he he
tron, i have stated more than once i see bios, trump cards etc as being more consistant and use than comics, as no one can even make up their minds whether juggie was hurt when fighting prof hulk ( looked it to me) whats the point of issue this or that being brought up, were beyond that here i belies. also juggie is a bit part character making it harder to be specific on in comic form. and im right till proved wrong
yes fly i read hulk, i hope u feel better now, i just dont memorise every issue etc and number, just the stories, wynndar is far more with it on those specifics.
juggie fan ur going round in circles, juggie is not infinite in strength end of story, why go on arguing that well as its not said in a comic he MIGHT be, or some editor said he has yet EVERY bio, card etc doesnt agree, and ive not seen any major discrpancies between any bio trump card since i was 12 im now 30, they seem very consistant.
thor himself in one battle with the hulk, after losing his hammer through a spell, admitted i believe he was no physical match for a rapidly increasing in strength hulk.
and thats a fact in a brawl hulk is perfect, escalating strength to get as strong as he needs, and nigh impervious ( resisted atomic bombs for goodness sake). baring that in mind how is juggie gonna knock out a SAVAGE hulk?????? juggie just is not as strong as u seem to imply.

fly get a brain next christmas, so cos i read bios trump cards doesnt mean im not a reader of comics, also again u were wrong in thinking hulk lost to iron man as wynndar proved, so be a man and accept it. if u read what i said i was actually putting forward a point of using them together with earlier posts i have written.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
JuggFan: Now you're questioning whether the hulk's strength is infinite or not, when can you come to terms with "reality" look at the poll, this debate is over, hulk came out the winner..plain and simple..🙂

Now, I'm not trying to tick you off in anyway, this is everyday debating to me(if I did then it was unintentional)..BUT you can't simple sit there and manipulate facts and reason..

Although some comics have indeed "bad writing" that doesn't make them "unusable", they still gather as much credit as the next comic, so you saying that the whole Onslaught ordeal was bad writing is completely irrelevant..It's kinda like it may be a breeding ground for plot holes BUT it is still "official"..

Make assumptions based on Facts, not on fan-oriented:
Fact: The hulk toppled Onslaught, Juggernaut couldn't(regardless of ANY circumstances)

Fact:Juggernaut at base strength IS MORE powerful than the hulk BUT not powerful enough to beat him "effortlessly", Hulk's base strength is too close to Jugg's power for that to occur..

Fact:Hulk's power is infinite, no if's ands or buts about it, go see "every bio" and you will know what I'm talking about..Jugg's power being infinite has NOT been stated "anywhere"

When these two guys battle it out blow for blow the fight always ends with an sudden interruption or circumstance, they never truly battle to the death..Think about this for one second, both are slugging each other back and forth NO sides seems to be giving in, both guys are immensely strong but ONE's power stops at a certain point the OTHER's power continues to rise, now WHO's going to come out on top?? Keep in mind the fight is already even on both sides as shown in "all" their previous fights, no side is physically invulnerable from the other, Juggernaut will eventually reach his limit, the hulk WILL NOT...that's a fact...

and no Hulk doesn't have to gather "ALOT" of strength just to match Marco, he's already there, and no Jugg's is not invulnerable to Hulk's attacks...the only difference I can began to distinguish from the two is that one's power doesn't stop!! One heals almost rapidly and is loads quicker..Now who would you pick if'n you didn't know both heroes??

hahahahaa 😆 "manipulate facts" ??????? jugfan is telling it as it is. Your telling one side of the comics. I believe onslaught said he could not kill juggernaut not while he was on his power. So a fight to the dealth between juggernaut and hulk (last i checked hulk has no psycic attacks) how would hulk win hahahahahahaha 😆 juggernaut cannot die. Only thing hulk has going for him is being very physical hate to tell you this but nothing physical can stop or kill the juggernaut.

Now juggernaut not being invunerable to hulks attacks is priceless
He took a direct blast from stellaris celestial armor with no effect. He also took a direct blast from thor's godforce which made galactus flea for his life. 😆

throwing him may not be a factor either what happens if he uses his forcefield? hulk cannot grap him and throw him when he has it on.

I have to admit having a forcefield when you are invincible is strange, but he like his personal space.

I believe Hulk teared Onslaughts armor apart.

regardless of psychic attacks or not...Juggernaut became a comet after Onslaught hit him...that is a feat in itself

Juggernaut wins (if you omit the 50% of his appearances that he gets beaten or stopped, or hurt, or scared)

no changed my mind..Hulk wins

Originally posted by ayjay
hahaha...omg...i was just about to say the exact same thing.....but yeeh...i think hulk will defeat jugz....maybe not pummel him into the ground....but throw him into space...where there's no air...at all....

Juggs doesn't need air.......or even food for that matter.

Originally posted by tough guy
fly get a brain next christmas, so cos i read bios trump cards doesnt mean im not a reader of comics, also again u were wrong in thinking hulk lost to iron man as wynndar proved, so be a man and accept it. if u read what i said i was actually putting forward a point of using them together with earlier posts i have written.

You can't even remember story arcs that occurred as recently as last July. Before I "get a brain", go read your trump cards and let the other people on this board who actually read the comics discuss their opinions. Besides, I refuted your claim that IM never knocked out the Hulk when in fact he has (on more than one occasion). I never stated that Hulk "lost" to IM as you stated above, now did I? This thread is about Juggernaut vs. the Hulk. I was putting forth info that you were obviously not aware of because it's painfully apparent that you don't read the Hulk. You just read synopsis and trump bio cards and make general assumptions off of them.

I'm not going to argue with you because of my belief that Juggs will win in a confrontation with the Hulk based on what I've seen Juggs and Hulk can do. Nothing that someone like you can say to me will lead me to think otherwise. I'm not here to change your opinion either. I'm just giving my 2 cents to the debate.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
JuggFan: Now you're questioning whether the hulk's strength is infinite or not, when can you come to terms with "reality" look at the poll, this debate is over, hulk came out the winner..plain and simple..🙂

and you are questioning how strong juggernaut is... saying his own abilities are durability and stamina. which is untrue, considering he can go toe-to-toe with the hulk and then some.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Now, I'm not trying to tick you off in anyway, this is everyday debating to me(if I did then it was unintentional)..BUT you can't simple sit there and manipulate facts and reason..

i'm not manipulating facts. you are the one that is saying juggernaut doesnt have ANY strength what-so-ever. i'm sure a 900lbs brute who can overpower most enemies without even thinking about it doesnt have any strength 😉

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Although some comics have indeed "bad writing" that doesn't make them "unusable", they still gather as much credit as the next comic, so you saying that the whole Onslaught ordeal was bad writing is completely irrelevant..It's kinda like it may be a breeding ground for plot holes BUT it is still "official"..

i agree. onslaught wasnt bad writing to juggernaut so much as everybody else. but it was bad writing. excellent art work mind you, but the writing was horrible. i dont have any problems with what onslaught did (second battle) cause we have no idea what went on in the first. they didnt just instantly change his history then. he was telepathically assaulted, therefor nothing wrong with that 😄 but the rest of his appearances were godawful.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Make assumptions based on Facts, not on fan-oriented:
Fact: The hulk toppled Onslaught, Juggernaut couldn't(regardless of ANY circumstances)

regardless of circumstances??? but you are comparing a physical battle (hulk) to a phsychic battle (juggernaut). how is that "regardless".... juggernaut didnt show any physical prowess, he was helplessly at the mercy of onslaught without his helmet.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Fact:Juggernaut at base strength IS MORE powerful than the hulk BUT not powerful enough to beat him "effortlessly",

agreed. but it seems that way in most of thier battles. he never grunts at resistance....

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Hulk's base strength is too close to Jugg's power for that to occur..

i dont think its all that close 😉 or juggernaut wouldnt be able to keep up with a continually escalating hulks strength.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Fact:Hulk's power is infinite,

so is juggernauts 😉

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
no if's ands or buts about it, go see "every bio" and you will know what I'm talking about..Jugg's power being infinite has NOT been stated "anywhere"

it has been stated by him, several writers and even hulks writers.... not to mention actual books instead of "bios" to which you are relying on.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
When these two guys battle it out blow for blow the fight always ends with an sudden interruption or circumstance, they never truly battle to the death..

i think hulk would die before juggernaut considering juggernaut wouldnt sustain any damage whatsoever whereas hulk would.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Think about this for one second,

i've thought about it for longer than a second, a minute, a day, a week, a month, a year. my opinion is juggernaut will win.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
both are slugging each other back and forth NO sides seems to be giving in, both guys are immensely strong but ONE's power stops at a certain point the OTHER's power continues to rise,

i know i know the whole theories behind hulks power. you are telling me nothing new.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
now WHO's going to come out on top??

the one with mystical enchantments that allow him not to be harmed, rather than the one that can (hulk) be harmed 😄

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Keep in mind the fight is already even on both sides as shown in "all" their previous fights,

they were even?? seems juggernaut had the upperhand in most of them except one. even then he wasnt fairing all that bad against a suped up celestially/2 universe powered hulk.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
no side is physically invulnerable from the other, Juggernaut will eventually reach his limit, the hulk WILL NOT...that's a fact...

well if you are talking about limits... juggernauts invulnerability stretches just as far as hulks strength could ever reach. now who's trying to twist facts???

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
and no Hulk doesn't have to gather "ALOT" of strength just to match Marco,

its marko, and yes he does. raging for nearly 2 days ring a bell?

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
he's already there,

HA HA HA, no hes not.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
and no Jugg's is not invulnerable to Hulk's attacks...

yes he is. like i said, name one time when he was hurt...

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
the only difference I can began to distinguish from the two is that one's power doesn't stop!!

which would be juggernauts power. whom is limitless.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
One heals almost rapidly and is loads quicker..Now who would you pick if'n you didn't know both heroes??

juggernaut heals faster than hulk does 😉 that is irrelavant, unless you are argueing in favor of juggernaut now. i doubt anybody would want to argue that.

Originally posted by Wynndar
regardless of psychic attacks or not...Juggernaut became a comet after Onslaught hit him...that is a feat in itself

circumstances unknown. all you know is what juggernaut recalls (which changes throughout the onslaught story arc)...

a telepath can make juggernaut think anything he wants him too. when he landed from being a comet, instead of being in a frenzy, onslaught could have made him think he was a 6 year old girl ....

honestly, why is that concept hard to grasp??? you are reaching into the unknown.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
and no Hulk doesn't have to gather "ALOT" of strength just to match Marco, he's already there, and no Jugg's is not invulnerable to Hulk's attacks...the only difference I can began to distinguish from the two is that one's power doesn't stop!! One heals almost rapidly and is loads quicker..Now who would you pick if'n you didn't know both heroes??

Well, he'd have to gather a good bit, before he gets knocked unconcious. And honestly, if I didn't know either, I'd pick Hulk, since he's the popular pic. If this was a few years ago, I'd pick Hulk pretty quick. But, that was BEFORE I actually learned more about Juggernaut's powers, feats, and the fights he's already had against Hulk. Now one thing you must admit, Juggernaut starts off with a very big advantage because of his powers, whether you believe Hulk wins or not.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
and thats a fact in a brawl hulk is perfect, escalating strength to get as strong as he needs, and nigh impervious ( resisted atomic bombs for goodness sake). baring that in mind how is juggie gonna knock out a SAVAGE hulk?????? juggie just is not as strong as u seem to imply.

Well, knocking out Savage Hulk is a hell of a feat, but it's very possible, and Juggernaut's more than capable of it, if it came down to it.

fly i do read comic books, like i said, obviously, however im not taken to memorising issues, nor have i read ebvery issue, freely happy to admit, this. yet ive only quoted from issues ive read so whats your point. i stated catagorically i never read iron man knock out hulk, wynndar also has a problem remembering this so again whats your point? and were talking savage hulk here. anyway u have brought no more proof in than me comic book wise as to how were gonna see juggie beat hulk.
tron, juggie just hasnt got what is required to beat savage hulk. savage hulk is nigh on impervious to injury, not an opinion, a fact, so is juggie, basically it then comes down to strength, juggie is not in the same league im afraid there, whatever direction he choses to run in.
interesting in that clip a couple of posts ago when did hulk get held up in the air fearing for his life when he fought onslought? didnt seem onslaught did anything to really show he would give hulk as bad a time, fearing for his life ( but i thought juggie was invulnerable) all he did was know hulk would be the one to break the armour and release his spirit . also hulk wasnt killed if i remember ( wow yes fly i read this comic too) he was seperated from banner by the force of his last punch.
back to hulk juggie, its a 70/30 fight in hulks favour, thats my opinion

also i dont blieve there is any evidence of juggie being MASSIVELY stronger than hulk, , hulk also gets to his required strength in fights very quickly so although juggie does start out stronger, and more invulnerable tghis slips away very quickly when fighting hulk. remember juggie is not renound for great physical strength, his main power is his durability

Man tough guy you dont even know facts, But i would like to see where it says Juggernauts stregth is unlimited, i think that in teh end Hulk would win but it would take a really long time. I mean when does hulk get outright beat by teh Xmen? If he has can someone tell me an issue number or something. I think that eventually Juggernaut would stop getting stronger and Hulk would continue therefore i think eventually hulk would win :/

Originally posted by Tough Guy
tron, juggie just hasnt got what is required to beat savage hulk. savage hulk is nigh on impervious to injury, not an opinion, a fact, so is juggie, basically it then comes down to strength, juggie is not in the same league im afraid there, whatever direction he choses to run in.

Do you have actual proof that he doesn't? So far, he's been shown to have what it takes, what you're saying sounds more like opinion to me. And Hulk's nigh impervious to most injuries, but he can still be injuried. To say he's not in Hulk's league of strength, now that's just asinine. Juggernaut's apparantly strong enough to trade blows "effectively" against Hulk and Thor, so how can you say he's not?

Originally posted by Tough Guy
also i dont blieve there is any evidence of juggie being MASSIVELY stronger than hulk, , hulk also gets to his required strength in fights very quickly so although juggie does start out stronger, and more invulnerable tghis slips away very quickly when fighting hulk. remember juggie is not renound for great physical strength, his main power is his durability

You're contradicting yourself again, saying he starts off stronger after saying he's not in Hulk's league. And there's no evidence that he isn't either, so I'll go on what I've seen so far between the two. The Destroyer hasn't been shown to do all the feats of strength that Hulk and Thor have done, but that doesn't automatically mean it's out of both of their league. In fact (this one's especially for those that rely on bios), the Destroyer's the only one out of all of them that's made to have TRUE unlimited strentgh. Just a bit of info for those that didn't know, or forgot. And true, his claim to fame is his durability, but it doesn't change the fact that he's strong as hell, definitely enough to handle himself just fine against two of Earth's top bricks.

Originally posted by lightaxe
Man tough guy you dont even know facts, But i would like to see where it says Juggernauts stregth is unlimited, i think that in teh end Hulk would win but it would take a really long time. I mean when does hulk get outright beat by teh Xmen? If he has can someone tell me an issue number or something. I think that eventually Juggernaut would stop getting stronger and Hulk would continue therefore i think eventually hulk would win :/

You make a good point, but tell me, when have the X-Men outright beaten Juggernaut any other way than their telepaths, which Hulk is pretty immune against?

touche' i gots no idea.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

I believe Hulk teared Onslaughts armor apart.

wow, that is such a beutiful pic. I loved it when Onslaught just made Juggernaut his *****! good way for Professor X to get back at Juggernaut, well his evil meany side

bwahahahahahaha