Juggernaut or The Hulk?

yes lighthouse u seem to have a far better knowledge than myself chortle chortle er no. tron, yes juggie starts out stronger than hulk, so does collossus, so does abom, so does namour ( in water), iron man and many more , why theyre not in hulks league strength wise is because hes shown in comics ( i hate using that as an example) and in his basic character bio that his strength escalates limitlessly, very quickly, i include juggie in the previous grouping, yes stronger, very strong but not in the same league as hulks potential, and a few comic bust ups that have proven neither one thing nor the other between them is no good to use as evidence. this is no contradiction
my proof is where does it state thhat his strength is limitless, his physical strength, not his invulnerability powers, or his silly force field ( and why could hulk not lift him when hes got this switched on,) his physical strength, not his enchantment to run in a particular direction, his physical strength? CONTRADICTION, ER WHERE, JUGGIE DOES START OUT STRONGER, NOT MASSIVELY, NO CONTRADICTION MY GOOD MAN.
onslaught destroyed juggie, end , read the flaming story guys, juggie is begging for his life!!!! it is not being shown that onslaught is using any psychic mumbo jumbo, just strength!!!! when did he do that to a raging savage hulk? in hulks state as savage wound up no one is his equal logically as he has no limit to where he can go. fights in comics ( tron , fly) showing snakes or namours beating hulk in long slugfests make no sense unless he is in a particularly good mood. i mean if i got stronger as i got angrier with no limit with the hulks durability i fail to see how i could be beaten in a brawl, i really do,. juggie being invulnerable fine till someone like hulk ( 1 character i believe should add that to his collection of nigh on impossible feats of strength) should be the one t be so mad as to somehoe break the spell of juggies gem and smash him ( yes opinion) but in a fight hulk should be able to out wrestle and overpower juggie whether his punches hurt him or not.
a last point when i say hulk is nigh invulnerable due to his healing dont quote me juggie surviving god blasts etc, hulk has never been hit with 1, also juggie has no weapon near the power of say a god blast to use anyway, so it makes no difference.

honestly.

why are you guys b!tching about limitless strength.

Juggernaut, in all his comic appearances, has never been proven to be too weak to perform an act of physical strength. This is me popping off with a fair amount of knowledge about Juggernaut. If you can refute that claim, and prove that he has been proven too weak to do a physical act.....THEN you have proven his strength to be finite, until then, it's infinite. Not because a card or bio said he DOES have it, but because no card says he DOESN'T have it.

Hulk's strength is infinite. It's said in all sorts of references, by writers, bios, comics, cards...you name it. Now explain how that helps him against the Juggernaut when Juggernaut is invulnerable to physical attack.

Hulk beats Juggernaut in Hulk #404. He knocks out Juggernaut by result of a "psychic backlash." Now, anyone care to explain when Hulk receieved psychic powers? name a comic....there's only like 500 Hulk comics. Come on...some one name a comic where Hulk uses psychic ability to defeat his foes.

WAR Hulk beat Juggernaut. Not Hulk, but WAR Hulk. You know, the sword, whip, celestial technology....yah, that guy. Ok, that's like comparing 8th day Juggernaut to regular Hulk. wanna bet who would win that fight?

Lastly, the whole Onslaught arguement. Juggernaut...without a helmet, one on one vs Onslaught. Onslaught even managed to physically rip out a the Gem of Cytorrak that wasn't even part of Juggernaut's body....great writing. Hulk, with the remaining members of earth's superheroes, vs. Onslaught 30 vs 1. And what did cracking the armor do? It set Onslaught free. It was part of Onslaught's plan no less.

So again...what is Hulk's infinite strength going to do against a guy who doesn't feel physical pain?

the fight where Onslaught ripped into Jug's chest...was that the same fight that we didnt see when Jug. flew from Canada to New Jersey? what is the deal? Jug had on his helmet when he landed, can Onslaught use his psionic abilities on Jug. despite his helmet?

Oh and like I said earlier...it doesnt matter what happened psionically, or what we dont know...we do know that Jug got hit by Onslaught and he went from Canada to Jersey and that is impressive.

I've seen Hulk do similar to Thing before...

Aside from thinking he was 6 years old....Juggernaut would have gotten up with little to no damage.

Originally posted by Wynndar
the fight where Onslaught ripped into Jug's chest...was that the same fight that we didnt see when Jug. flew from Canada to New Jersey? what is the deal? Jug had on his helmet when he landed, can Onslaught use his psionic abilities on Jug. despite his helmet?

like i said plot holes galore... on more than one occasion his helmet failed to block telepathy (in the onslaught story arch). why would it be different with onslaught whom was more powerful than people who did it in the onslaught story arch??

Originally posted by Wynndar
we do know that Jug got hit by Onslaught and he went from Canada to Jersey and that is impressive.

that was what jugs remembered... like i said earlier it could be just an implanted memory... we dont know what happened. onslaught (even though he had his helmet on) could make him -think- whatever he wanted him to. juggernaut after all had a telepathic block (cause jean had to remove it) before onslaught/juggernauts second encounter...

Originally posted by Tough Guy
onslaught destroyed juggie, end , read the flaming story guys, juggie is begging for his life!!!! it is not being shown that onslaught is using any psychic mumbo jumbo, just strength!!!!

i think YOU need to read the story then... jean and juggernaut are in a psi shielded chamber while jean reads juggernauts mind. jean then figures out just who onslaught is. she also notices that cain left the psi shielded chamber wide open. knowing who onslaught was, she also knew that onslaught would know juggernaut was around. she told juggernaut to run. juggernaut, FORGOT his helmet. then as he was running his perception (telepathy was being used) was warped and onslaught lead juggernaut right to him. upon entering into the xavier office, onslaught picks juggernaut up WHILE the background changes to an astral plane colored back ground... you are telling me telepathy wasnt being used?? or are you too simply to notice it??

Originally posted by Tough Guy
when did he do that to a raging savage hulk? in hulks state as savage wound up no one is his equal logically as he has no limit to where he can go. fights in comics ( tron , fly) showing snakes or namours beating hulk in long slugfests make no sense unless he is in a particularly good mood.

why just because it doenst help your arguement??

Originally posted by Tough Guy
i mean if i got stronger as i got angrier with no limit with the hulks durability i fail to see how i could be beaten in a brawl, i really do,.

thats your problem, not ours.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
juggie being invulnerable fine till someone like hulk ( 1 character i believe should add that to his collection of nigh on impossible feats of strength) should be the one t be so mad as to somehoe break the spell of juggies gem and smash him ( yes opinion)

lol... whatever hulk will never be strong enough to break the spells that make juggernaut invulnerable. after all with all his unlimited strength has failed to break the crimson bands of cyttorak on several occasions 😉

Originally posted by Tough Guy
but in a fight hulk should be able to out wrestle and overpower juggie whether his punches hurt him or not.

-should- to a hulk fan, -shouldnt- to a juggernaut fan. juggernaut is stronger, just admit it.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
a last point when i say hulk is nigh invulnerable due to his healing dont quote me juggie surviving god blasts etc, hulk has never been hit with 1,

but gladiators heat vision did burn a hole deep into his body. hardly thors godforce blast 😉

Originally posted by Tough Guy
also juggie has no weapon near the power of say a god blast to use anyway, so it makes no difference.

this is true... but it wasnt being stated as a weapon. it was being stated as a reference to durability 😉 stop confusing the 2.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
interesting in that clip a couple of posts ago when did hulk get held up in the air fearing for his life when he fought onslought?

i dont know what you are refering too here.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
didnt seem onslaught did anything to really show he would give hulk as bad a time, fearing for his life

hmm, it seems i was recalling correctly. it was banner who jumped into the whole onslaught frey of energy. i think.. i'm going to have to get the issue back out to read it again.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
all he did was know hulk would be the one to break the armour and release his spirit .

"spirit" = conscioussness/phsychic energy

Originally posted by Tough Guy
also hulk wasnt killed if i remember ( wow yes fly i read this comic too) he was seperated from banner by the force of his last punch.

no he was separated by the energies unleashed by the punch 😉 if that were true hulk would be separated from banner every time he punched something extremely hard (adamantium, thor juggernaut...)

Originally posted by Tough Guy
back to hulk juggie, its a 70/30 fight in hulks favour, thats my opinion

and mine is its 80/20 in juggernauts favor...

but in reality it would be 50/50 no matter who you WANT to win.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
also i dont blieve there is any evidence of juggie being MASSIVELY stronger than hulk,

like you said... colossus starts out stronger than hulk. but juggernaut (with LESS than half his power, beat up colossus with one hand and rogue with the other).... hmmm, or in a depowered state beat up rhino in like 2 pages... wow... rhinos gave hulk (savage) hell before. even though savage has beat him to a pulp.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
, hulk also gets to his required strength in fights very quickly so although juggie does start out stronger, and more invulnerable tghis slips away very quickly when fighting hulk.

no it doesnt... 2 days ring a bell at all?? does this sink in or am i still wasting my time??

Originally posted by Tough Guy
remember juggie is not renound for great physical strength, his main power is his durability

and hulk isnt renound for his durability or his stamina. something you are trying to give him credit for 😉

and dont forget all the thing fights which juggernaut took him out in how many hits ummmmmmmmmmm, o yeah it was only 3!

yah lets not go there with the:

Hulk battles with Thing toe to toe for extended periods of time.

Juggernaut knocked him out in 3 punches.

That was some pretty poor writing. Thing should always take a better beating than that.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
yah lets not go there with the:

Hulk battles with Thing toe to toe for extended periods of time.

Juggernaut knocked him out in 3 punches.

Thing should always take a better beating than that.

unless juggernaut is just THAT POWERFUL/STRONG!!!!!!!

kill all are u the old juggie fan???? i went away for chrimbo and u seem to be arguing exactly the sameas him.
i hat ebringing in comics buy whatever u want to say about astral plains etc onslought held him like a rag doll and ripped into him with ease.
juggie is only stronger than a calm hulk. 2 days was used obviously hulk wasnt as mad as we have seen him during other battles, shows of strength. juggies powers lie in durability and moving in a direction without being stoppped, yes he is very strong stronger than collossus, thing , etc, i would not say as strong physically as thor, and on physical strength would get overtaken by hulk when he was pissed enough, put him in the same frame of mind as he was against onslought and hed muller juggie and would do the unthinkable and smash him to a pulp.
* he was seperated by the force of the punch, dont nit pick, u know exactly what i meant kill all, he wasnt killed banner was seperated from him, ( technically this then creats mindless hulk arguably the most powerful incarnation)
* hulk does yes when needed increase rapidly in strength many times the 100 tonne level, ie holding up a mountain, holding up a whole castle, etc, other times ( un explainably ) this doesnt seem to happen, obviousley writers here need to give the other guy a chance and wont have hulk getting too trong for the sake of the story, comic books for you. ( why i go alot more on bios and other parafanalie that give mor back bone to the characters capabilities.
* i want to stress that i dont think juggie is a push over, nor is he gonna likely end up dead or whatever, but hulks strength and healing would overcome juggie in a wrestle ( and this is what it wouldbecome as neither would really hurt the other) and no hulk wont tire, not unless u have months and months, and even then hes swam the pacific for ages without tiring, calming seems to be his way of reverting back to bruce banner. in the end juggie gets buried, or hurled somewhere, or hulk gets so strong he does the unthinkable and crushes him into a little ball and rolls him down a hill.

i wasnt claiming that u were using it as a referance of a weapon of equal power i was just saying juggie taking a god blast and walking isnt gonna help him deliver something to hulk thats gonna beat him.

Juggernaut went toe to toe with thor with alot of his mysical energy nulified. Thor #428
Juggernaut is more than a physical match for thor.
There first fight a simple back hand sent thor flying.

Jugg went toe to toe with hulk...SO WHAT?? The hulk whooped Thor's ass and left him for dead, lemme show you something "son"..

Hulk vs. Thor XVI- Hulk 2001 annual

Hulk wakes up as they arrive back on Earth. Hulk knocks Thor to the ground and starts pounding and pounding. Hulk leaves Thor lying in a heap not knowing if he is dead or alive.(Fact)

Juggernaut also got his butt handed to him by nimrod in Uncanny X-Men #194, in which without the aid of the x-men the juggernaut would have been "killed"...invulnerable yes, to a certain extent yes...

I said it before and I'll say it again just because Juggernaut has never showed a limit in his power DOES NOT make his power infinite..

Both the hulk and Jugg's are impervious to physical pain, to a certain extent,I've seen both men nearly killed in random battles so their invulnerability only goes so far..Both feels each other's blows or THEY WOULDN'T appear unconscious in battles.

In the end we're alittle iffy on the whole Juggy having infinite power subject(because of wishful Juggy fans) but we KNOW for sure the hulk's power is infnite and in order to be knocked unconscious you must indeed "feel" the dealt blow and the Juggernaut was knocked unconscious by the hulk before..

Originally posted by Wynndar
the fight where Onslaught ripped into Jug's chest...was that the same fight that we didnt see when Jug. flew from Canada to New Jersey? what is the deal? Jug had on his helmet when he landed, can Onslaught use his psionic abilities on Jug. despite his helmet?

Well, just goes to show how f*cked up the Onslaught saga at times. After all, Psylocke also used her abilities on Juggernaut twice during the saga, WITH Juggernaut wearing his helmet. Forgot about that one didn't ya?😉

Nimrod attacked Juggernaut’s mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and synapse dislocuter that jammed his neural impulses.

Jamming his neural impulses will not kill him, juggernaut was suprised that he was actually trying (TRYING!!!!) to kill him.

Juggernaut also thrashed Thor with very little effort (fact) try Thor#17(vol.2).....So there "son"...

There is no extent to juggernauts invunerabiliy......what makes you think that after the things juggernaut has suvived?

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
In the end we're alittle iffy on the whole Juggy having infinite power subject(because of wishful Juggy fans) but we KNOW for sure the hulk's power is infnite and in order to be knocked unconscious you must indeed "feel" the dealt blow and the Juggernaut was knocked unconscious by the hulk before..

its more "iffy" that you say hulks power is unlimted. juggernauts power level has been stated on many occasion too that its UNLIMITED.... and juggernaut has -never- been knocked unconsciouss by hulk...

just wishful thinking on your part huh??

Originally posted by Tough Guy
but hulks strength and healing would overcome juggie in a wrestle ( and this is what it wouldbecome as neither would really hurt the other) and no hulk wont tire, not unless u have months and months, and even then hes swam the pacific for ages without tiring, calming seems to be his way of reverting back to bruce banner. in the end juggie gets buried, or hurled somewhere, or hulk gets so strong he does the unthinkable and crushes him into a little ball and rolls him down a hill.

i'm glad you brought up this point... hulk was swimming in the ocean for 7 days and was almost completely EXHAUSTED after he got to land... it didnt take months n months. ha ha, thanks for making yourself look bad.

in the end juggernaut pounds hulk into a bloody green smear all over the place END. i'm done in this debate its all there, dont expect a reply back from me for a while, so dont waste your time replying to me.

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Jugg went toe to toe with hulk...SO WHAT?? The hulk whooped Thor's ass and left him for dead, lemme show you something "son"..

Hulk vs. Thor XVI- Hulk 2001 annual

Hulk wakes up as they arrive back on Earth. Hulk knocks Thor to the ground and starts pounding and pounding. Hulk leaves Thor lying in a heap not knowing if he is dead or alive.(Fact)

Thor #385 1991

Hulk goes on the rampage as usual. Thor has just finished stopping some simple crime when he gets word that Hulk is running amuck and goes to stop him because he is a "more worthy" opponent.

Battle ensues and Thor proceeds to kick the living crap out of Hulk with Mjolnir, then because he doesn't stand a chance against Thor with Mjolnir, Hulk grabs a girl and threatens to kill her if Thor doesn't lose the hammer. So Thor chucks the hammer as far as he can.

They go back and forth decimating a peaceful city until Thor decides that if he doesn't stop Hulk....innocent people could die. Thor gets back Mjolnir, delivers a couple of blows, then Hulk decides he's had enough and admits Thor to be too strong with his hammer before leaping away.

pretty much leaves them 1 to 1, care to go a little more in depth on that issue? why they fought? what were the circumstances?

Juggernaut also got his butt handed to him by nimrod in Uncanny X-Men #194, in which without the aid of the x-men the juggernaut would have been "killed"...invulnerable yes, to a certain extent yes...

and what did Nimrod use to hand Juggernaut his butt? Pretty sure it wasn't just fists and kicks....which is all Hulk has.

I said it before and I'll say it again just because Juggernaut has never showed a limit in his power DOES NOT make his power infinite..

and I've said it once and i'll continue to say it until you can prove otherwise....Juggernaut's strength is infinite until it is proven otherwise. Every other strong character in Marvel except Hulk has shown a limit before....why not Juggernaut? Either way, he has sufficient strength to defeat hurt/defeat/kill Hulk.

Both the hulk and Jugg's are impervious to physical pain, to a certain extent,I've seen both men nearly killed in random battles so their invulnerability only goes so far..Both feels each other's blows or THEY WOULDN'T appear unconscious in battles.

Juggernaut is impervious to physical pain....Hulk is resistant to physical pain. Juggernaut DOES NOT feel pain from Hulk's physical blows, but Hulk feels what Juggernaut does to him. All the times anyone has mentioned Juggernaut unconscious were a result of a psychic attack. If you can name a time that Juggernaut was knocked out by a physical force...then I'll drop this part of my arguement.

In the end we're alittle iffy on the whole Juggy having infinite power subject(because of wishful Juggy fans) but we KNOW for sure the hulk's power is infnite and in order to be knocked unconscious you must indeed "feel" the dealt blow and the Juggernaut was knocked unconscious by the hulk before..

There is no known limit to Juggernaut's strength.
There is no known limit to Hulk's strength.

explain how you can put a cap on Juggernaut's strength that doesn't exsist yet. If Juggernaut's strength isn't infinite, then what is his limitation? You can say that his strength is finite, but do you have any means of proving just how finite it is?

What caused Juggernaut to get knocked out by the Hulk? Last time I checked, he got knocked out by Hulk from a "psychic backlash." You know...A PSYCHIC ATTACK. Hulk's fists do NOTHING to Juggernaut except slow him down. Unless of course, you can name a time when Hulk physically knocked out Juggernaut.