the overriding factor is that Spiderman is leagues faster and more powerfull AND Batmans fighting skills would not save him. notice i used the word SAVE becuase hes not going to land a single punch. the Spidersense will completley nulify all of batmans fighting skill. he could not win in a random encounter its immposible and most every one here knows this. Batman needs pre-time to win.
I've seen a lot of threads like this, too, and I've noticed a trend. People look at a fight like this--between to of the world's most skilled, effective superheroes--and insist that the one they like more would easily defeat the other hero. For some mysterious reason, the "overriding factor" of a fight is always the quality that a poster's favorite hero has more of than the other hero. I, for one, think that's really, really stupid.
Batman did not get where he is today--one of the major players in a group that routinely takes on superhuman enemies-- by being helpless in the face of superhumans. Spiderman did not get where he is by collapsing in a heap everytime he has to fight a stratagist or martial artist.
You can have your opinions, but when you insist on downgrading the other hero, it makes you look silly; both heroes are world-class.
Originally posted by VENOMfan
Batman and Spiderman are both icon's winning a random fight doesent make one better than another
I absolutely agree with you on this, and I realize that many people here have in fact given both heroes their due. My post was not directed at those people, so I hope you don't think I was slamming you or anything (I mean, I wasn't slamming anyone, but I wasn't even thinking of you when I posted).
I understand Venom and Kal, that you aren't stating your vehemence for Batman. We all probably love him to some degree. But I am basing this debate purely on who would win in a hypothetical fight. I agree with Batman Beyond. Batman is not just a simple strategist or martial artist, he is THE strategist/martial artist (with a couple exceptions mind you) of the DCU. And furthermore, I'm not sure I totally accept this spider sense bit as a viable piece of evidence. It's likely that his sense would go off from a surprise attack or any traps Batman may have set up ahead of time. But I think in a straight up head to head battle that his sense wouldn't be going off before each and every punch that would land, it never works like that, and even if it did and he saw it coming that doesn't necessarilly mean he could evade it. He doesn't stop time with his sense. Martial artists of Batman's caliber have a unique way of misdirecting their foes to the true attack and disguising blows which would inevitably be necessary in taking down a foe as powerful as Spiderman. If Batman unleashes full tilt, he can outsmart and take down Spidey. It would be hard, but if it came down to it, he could/would.
this is a little recap of Spidey's fighting ability and how fast his spider-sense is, taken straight from the Marvel directory read carefully and you will see how Bat's fighting ability wont help him much
Know Superhuman Powers: Spider-Man possesses superhuman strength, reflexes, and equilibrium; the ability to cause parts of his body to stick with great tenacity to most surfaces; and a subconscious premonitional "danger" sence. The irradiated Common House Spider (Achaearanea tepidariorum) which bit Peter Parker was apparently already mutated from prior exposure to certain frequencies of radiation and received a final, lethal dose during Parker's attendance of the exhibition. The radioactive, complex mutagenic enzymes in the spider's blood that were transferred at the time of the bite triggered numberous body-wide mutagenic changes within Parker.
Spider-Man's overall metabolic efficiency has been greatly increased, and the composition of his skeleton, inter-connected tissues, and nervous system have all been enhanced. Spider-Man's musculature has been augmentedso that he can lift (press) about 10 tons. His reflexes are faster than an average human by about a factor of 15 (he is often able to dodge bullets, if he is far enough away). Spider-Man is extraordinarily limber and his tendons and connective tissues are twice as elastic as the average human being's, despite their enhanced strength. He has developed a unique fighting style that makes full use of his agility, strength, and equilibrium.
Spider-Man's exposure to the mutated spider venom induced a mutagenic, cerebellum-wide alteration of his engrams resulting in the ability to mentally control the flux of inter-atomic attraction (electrostatic force) between molecular boundary layers. This overcomes the outer electron shell's normal behavior of mutual repulsion with other outer electron shells and permits the tremendous potential for electron attraction to prevail. The mentally controlled sub-atomic particle responsible for this has yet to be identified. This ability to affect the attraction between surfaces is so far limited to Spider-Man's body (especially conetrated in his hands and feet) and another object, with an upper limit of several tons per finger. Limits to this ability seem to be psychosomatic, and the full nature of this ability has yet to be established.
Spider-Man possesses an extrasensory "danger" or "spider" sensewhich warns him of potential immediate danger by tingling sensation in the back of his skull. The precise nature of this sense is unknown. It appears to be a simultaneous clairvoyant responce to a wide variety of phenomena (everything from falling safes to speeding bullets to thrown punches), which has given several hundredths of a second's warning, which is sufficient time for his reflexes to allow him to avoid injury. The sense also can create a general resonse on the order of several minutes: he cannot discern the nature of the threat by the sensation. He can, however, discern the severity of the danger by the strength of his response to it. Spider-Man's fighting style incorporates the advantage that his "spidey-sense" provides him.
Weapons: Spider-Man uses web-shooters which are twin devices worn on his wrists which can shoot thin strands of a special “web fluid” at high pressure. The web fluid is a shear-thinning liquid (virtually solid until a shearing force is applied to it, rendering it fluid) whose exact formula is as yet unknown, but is related to nylon. On contact with air, the long-chain polymer knits and forms an extremely tough, flexible fiber with extraordinary adhesive properties. The web fluid’s adhesive quality diminishes rapidly with exposure to air. (Where it does not make contact with air, such as the attachment disk of the web-shooter, it remains very adhesive.) After about 2 hour, certain imbibed ether cause the solid form of the web fluid to dissolve into a powder. Because the fluid almost instantly sublimates from solid to liquid when under shear pressure, and is not adhesive in its anaerobic liquid/solid phase transition point, there is no clogging of the web-shooter’s parts.
The spinneret mechanism in the web-shooter is machined from stainless steel, except for the turbine component, which is machined out of a block of Teflon and the two turbine bearings, which are made of amber and artificial sapphire. The wristlet and web fluid cartridges are mainly nickel-plated annealed brass. Spider-Man’s web cartridge belt is made out of brass and light leather and holds up to 30 cartridges. The cartridges are pressurized to 300 pounds per square inch and sealed with a bronze cap which is silver soldered closed. The wristlets have sharp steel nipples, which pierce the bronze cap when the cartridges are tightly wedged into their positions. A palm switch that is protected by a band of spring steel, which requires a 65 pounds pressure to trigger, actuates the hand-wound solenoid needle valve. The switch is situated high on the palm to avoid most unwanted firings. A rubber seal protects the small battery compartment. The effect of the very small turbine pump vanes is to compress (share) the web fluid and then force it, under pressure, through the spinneret holes which cold-draws it (stretches it: the process wherein nylon gains a four-fold increase in tensile strength), then extrudes it through the air where it solidifies. As the web fluid exits the spinneret holes, it is attracted to itself electro statically and thus can form complex shapes. The spinneret holes have three sets of adjustable, staggered openings around the turbine, which permit a single line, a more complex, spun web line, and a thick stream. The web line’s tensile strength is estimated to be 120 pounds per square millimeter of cross section. The 300 pounds per square inch of pressure in each cartridge is sufficient to force a stream of the complex web pattern an estimated 60 feet (significantly farther if shot in a ballistic parabolic arc).
Hahaha, and Knightfall complains about MY messages being too long. Well said VENOMfan. You are also right when you say this is getting tiring.
The major problem here is, I think, that "Batman vs Spider-man" is a very vague concept. Do they know each other? Do they know their opponents weakness? Where do they fight? Why do they fight? This is all very important. I don't like to agree with Knightfall - he is way too arrogant, he isn't very keen on accepting facts and he called me an idiot without saying why, and that really hurt :-) but he has a point that Batman could defeat Spider-man when Bats was fully prepared. It would be a nice fight, but in the end, Spider-man would probably lose. Probably.
On the other hand, when they first meet, and they start fighting each other for some reason, Spider-man would kick Batmans ass while baking a cake for aunt May. Spider-man hasn't a very big weakness like Superman has. This "sixth sense" of Batman of which Knightfall is talking (again a very vague concept) though isn't very impressive compared to the very effective spidersense. I saw Batman being hit lots of times when he didn't saw it coming. It's just too difficult to hit Spider-man. Everybody knows this.
Batman may be cooler than Spider-man, but being cool never has won a fight.
My god, that was the most unecessarilly long post I've ever seen. You actually wasted pixels on that post, Venom. Honestly, the fact that someone took that much time and effort to try to rationalize a superhero's abilities and in some way make them plausible is just plain retarded. It's called the WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF!!! And dude, as far as the debate goes: there is a difference between the normative and the factual. That may be the textbook definition of his powers but look at how it's written. Every single writer has imparted their own little spin on his powers and especially how and when they work. Now tell me, do you really want me to post some bogus list of what Batman can do? Do I really have to waste that much of your time? I guarantee you his utility belt alone will be at least 7 pages longer than your post. So please, no more posts like that.