Spider-Man vs Batman

Originally posted by Lenord
If you are talking about the Batman/Spider-man comic featuring Carnage/Joker then Spider-man did not save Batman from Carnage the Joker did so even if Spider-man wasn't there Batman would have beaten Carnage. Below is these scene you are talking about....

Ok, let's get this straight : Batman can NOT (read : NOT) beat Carnage with his bare hands. I know it happened, but when written right, he should have ended up dead in a matter of seconds. Venom and Spider-Man together have a difficult time stopping Carnage, or trying to beat him unconsciousness, and both Venom and Spider-Man or sooo much stronger than Batman.

Talk about crap writing. Spider-Man alone, who can hit through a brick wall and can bend steel, can go berserk on Carnage and hit him with everything he's got (for your information, when he does that, even the Hulk feels it), but still, it won't do that much damage to Carnage.

And then DeMatteis (the so called "writer" of this horrible cross over) decides it's time for Batman to beat up one of the most dangerous and tough Spider-Man villains ever with his bare hands ?! No no, I know it happened, but really, it's like saying Joker takes on Juggernaut in a fistfight.

Without preptime, Batman has virtually no chance against Carnage. Never. Fact. Ask anybody who's objective and who knows something about Carnage.

what i meant with save is .....that if he had not apeared batman would not had take carnage unaware (the first met, when carnage was paying attention to spiderman), and even on that scene batman was beggining to have problems with carnage when spiderman shows up hiting him, and batman stupidly and arrogancy said he diidnt need any help.
(yah right, he must have been sufering from broken heart and wanted to suicide)
carnage is too umpredictible as u see in the same comics when bat is investigating, him, i dont remember but i think he even mention the fact his fight is also umpredictible or something like it? or he just talks about the pattern he acts? either way we are not talking about carnage, but im refering to him to compare with spiderman his also imprediticable, (on most case) even being so predictible in what hell do like,saving people, etc.....but not in his moves.u can study every spiderman moves, but you only end up like kraven.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Ok, let's get this straight : Batman can NOT (read : NOT) beat Carnage with his bare hands. I know it happened, but when written right, he should have ended up dead in a matter of seconds. Venom and Spider-Man together have a difficult time stopping Carnage, or trying to beat him unconsciousness, and both Venom and Spider-Man or sooo much stronger than Batman.

Talk about crap writing. Spider-Man alone, who can hit through a brick wall and can bend steel, can go berserk on Carnage and hit him with [b]everything he's got (for your information, when he does that, even the Hulk feels it), but still, it won't do that much damage to Carnage.

And then DeMatteis (the so called "writer" of this horrible cross over) decides it's time for Batman to beat up one of the most dangerous and tough Spider-Man villains ever with his bare hands ?! No no, I know it happened, but really, it's like saying Joker takes on Juggernaut in a fistfight.

Without preptime, Batman has virtually no chance against Carnage. Never. Fact. Ask anybody who's objective and who knows something about Carnage. [/B]

I agree with the fact that the caracters were acting out of character in this issue (except for Joker who was done well). Batman should not have been able to beat Carnage with his bare hands but the fact is that in the comic Batman had a detailed file on Carnage/Cassedy and time to get ready yet he went into battle without sonic weapons or any other weapons to deal with Carnage (which is not in his character). Batman and Spiderman also got easily caught off gaurd by Carnage, but that is another story...

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ
what i meant with save is .....that if he had not apeared batman would not had take carnage unaware (the first met, when carnage was paying attention to spiderman), and even on that scene batman was beggining to have problems with carnage when spiderman shows up hiting him, and batman stupidly and arrogancy said he diidnt need any help.
(yah right, he must have been sufering from broken heart and wanted to suicide)

I think you are getting the story confused again... When Carnage makes his escape Batman removes his disguise as one of the security guys and Carnage grabs the doctor as a hostage. That is when Spider-man makes his appearance and takes the doctor from carnage using his web and then they both start beating up Carnage... Carnage then attacks the croud and when Batman/Spiderman go to save them he escapes with the Joker... the next time that they meet Carnage is at the final fight and I have already said how that goes...

They reason that Batman refused Spiderman's help is not because he is arrogant but because he does not like working with super powered people unless he knows them well as he has stated before...

<Superman> "You don't like this, do you? You don't like working with...with Superpeople."

<Batman> "I don't have superspeed or invulnerability. I can't risk wearing a bright costume that makes me a target and I can't afford to trust poorly-trained people who do."

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ

carnage is too umpredictible as u see in the same comics when bat is investigating, him, i dont remember but i think he even mention the fact his fight is also umpredictible or something like it? or he just talks about the pattern he acts? either way we are not talking about carnage, but im refering to him to compare with spiderman his also imprediticable, (on most case) even being so predictible in what hell do like,saving people, etc.....but not in his moves.u can study every spiderman moves, but you only end up like kraven.

Again you have got it wrong... It is Alfread that says that Carnage is unpredictable and wonders if even Batman can figure out his next move, Batman replies that he thinks he can and then he goes out finds Spider-Man, and after asking him to get in his car he goes on to locate Carnage for the final battle. The fact that he found Spider-Man and then Carnage says something about Batmans abilities....

As for Batman only ending up like Kraven... by that logic then Spider-Man is only a much lesser version of Superman ( How I hate this form of logic, especially resorting to it ).

wait a minute i remebered something, batman lost to bane, who was just a esteroid adicted , and broke his back, so spiderman can kick his ass.
also if he is in a wheel chair, mean another batman is wearing bruce suit, right? so if its a new guy, he is not as trained as bruce batman,cos he didnt had all the time to train as bruce did. that sparking memory makes me confuse. if he brock his back, and a new bat assumed, how he got back assuming a new (in fact the old) uniform with just the bat as simbol big on the chest?if he did , cos i know the batman with only bat simbol in chest is bruce, so there are two bats? i like the yelow thing bat simbol more than this one.

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ
wait a minute i remebered something, batman lost to bane, who was just a esteroid adicted , and broke his back, so spiderman can kick his ass.
also if he is in a wheel chair, mean another batman is wearing bruce suit, right? so if its a new guy, he is not as trained as bruce batman,cos he didnt had all the time to train as bruce did. that sparking memory makes me confuse. if he brock his back, and a new bat assumed, how he got back assuming a new (in fact the old) uniform with just the bat as simbol big on the chest?if he did , cos i know the batman with only bat simbol in chest is bruce, so there are two bats? i like the yelow thing bat simbol more than this one.

Bruce's back mended and he got back into training and then beat the new Batman and took back the mantle as Batman, he also fought Bane again and beat him... The fact that he lost to Bane and almost died, broke his back and then got back up, faced his fear and went back out into the night and beat Bane just proves how determined the guy is. The worst that has happened to spiderman is he has broken his hand. And Peter has givin up being Spiderman so many times (true he does always come back but still) and is not as determined as Batman... Lets face it if Peter broke his back I truly don't know if he would work as hard as Bruce to get back to shape in order to fight crime again....

Batman was tired when Bane broke his back. Again, this was the context in which Batman lost the fight. Understandable really.

i think spiderman'll beat the bat cuz he'll just knock awway all his gizmo's and then..whats the bat got?

Originally posted by Lenord
Bruce's back mended and he got back into training and then beat the new Batman and took back the mantle as Batman, he also fought Bane again and beat him... The fact that he lost to Bane and almost died, broke his back and then got back up, faced his fear and went back out into the night and beat Bane just proves how determined the guy is. The worst that has happened to spiderman is he has broken his hand. And Peter has givin up being Spiderman so many times (true he does always come back but still) and is not as determined as Batman... Lets face it if Peter broke his back I truly don't know if he would work as hard as Bruce to get back to shape in order to fight crime again....

That's bullstuff, Spidey has broken a few more things that can be compared to Batman's injury, like his Broken ribs during the Maximum Carnage Series. In Carnage's little series, Spider-Man still fought him and his goons with his damaged ribs, being repeatly striked in his rib cage or manuvering the wrong way that hurt him even more, but yet, he still fought on, all the way to the end because he was determined to protect what he believed in.

Originally posted by Duke
That's bullstuff, Spidey has broken a few more things that can be compared to Batman's injury, like his Broken ribs during the Maximum Carnage Series. In Carnage's little series, Spider-Man still fought him and his goons with his damaged ribs, being repeatly striked in his rib cage or manuvering the wrong way that hurt him even more, but yet, he still fought on, all the way to the end because he was determined to protect what he believed in.

How in the world can you compare a broken rib with a broken back... Batman has had broken ribs before but a broken back means you are paralized from the leg down.... Come on man use common sense. For most heroes it is easy to risk thier life because they very rearly belive that they will die, and if they die then that is that... but if Peter broke his back and felt the helplessness of it all, not being able to walk, needing other people to do stuff for you all the time. He would suffer from depression and would curse the day he ever put on that costume. I am sorry but I can't see how you can compare that to a broken rib...

get straigh , dude. if either batman or peter was tetraplegic they wouldnt be wearing the uniform again. they would turn into charity things and pedologian.and the bakc mended? BUWAHWAHA whats is that no back mend after brock, the collum vertebra disc can unglue but when its brock thats a final word from nature.even the wayne undustries couldnt help him on it. explain me the he beated the new batman.did the new guy got evil?and after that i supose batman killed him right? he know too much like the batcave, maybe the IDs.
about the determination of spiderman, WAKE UP, all spider´s win against a more powerfull evil dude is based on it, like when he got up when someone( i dont remember the name,i think is graviton) put him a gravity of 10 times earth or close enough to it, and he stood up, t protect the poors civilians souls. he would never go after venom if he was not determined to stop his killings, cos spiderman DOES FEAR a lot the venom. even batman must have a villain he fears.
so spiderman is pure determination.

Originally posted by Lenord
How in the world can you compare a broken rib with a broken back... Batman has had broken ribs before but a broken back means you are paralized from the leg down.... Come on man use common sense. For most heroes it is easy to risk thier life because they very rearly belive that they will die, and if they die then that is that... but if Peter broke his back and felt the helplessness of it all, not being able to walk, needing other people to do stuff for you all the time. He would suffer from depression and would curse the day he ever put on that costume. I am sorry but I can't see how you can compare that to a broken rib...

The point I'm trying to make is that Spidey can be just as determined as Batman can be because Spider-Man has an obligation, he has a responsiablity to protect the inoccents, his loved ones, and himself where as Batman lives for revenge of his Parents' deaths, so either way you look at it, both Spider-Man and Batman have a common goal and that's why they are able to push themselves past their mental and physical limits.

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ
get straigh , dude. if either batman or peter was tetraplegic they wouldnt be wearing the uniform again. they would turn into charity things and pedologian.and the bakc mended? BUWAHWAHA whats is that no back mend after brock, the collum vertebra disc can unglue but when its brock thats a final word from nature.even the wayne undustries couldnt help him on it. explain me the he beated the new batman.did the new guy got evil?and after that i supose batman killed him right? he know too much like the batcave, maybe the IDs.

Bane broke Batman's greatest foes out of the Arkham Asylum, setting them loose on Gotham City. After being Physically and mentally spent, from recaptured the inmates, Bane followed Batman to the Bat Cave and battered him into submission. Unable to defend himself, Batman has his spine snapped over Bane's knee.

Mentally defeated and physically broken, Bruce Wayne turns to Azrael to assume the identity of Batman. A year later after recovering from his back injury Bruce goes back to reclaim his title as Batman, but Azrael who had become mentally unstable and violent tries to kill Bruce. Bruce finally manages to defeat Azrael and reclaim his mantle as Batman.

By the way Bruce is not the only person to recover from being paralized, Tony Stark has done it and I think more unbelivable things have happened in Spider-mans life than Batman recovering from a broken back (remember the whole Cloning spiderman stuff).

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ

about the determination of spiderman, WAKE UP, all spider´s win against a more powerfull evil dude is based on it, like when he got up when someone( i dont remember the name,i think is graviton) put him a gravity of 10 times earth or close enough to it, and he stood up, t protect the poors civilians souls. he would never go after venom if he was not determined to stop his killings, cos spiderman DOES FEAR a lot the venom. even batman must have a villain he fears.
so spiderman is pure determination.

You are miss-understanding me, there is a whole lot of difference between not giving up in a fight and getting up after being totally and completely defeated. When Spiderman (or any other hero) is fighting they have adreneline puping through thier body which tends to increase your strength/speed/reflexes more than normal and they manage to accomplish great things.

But what happens when you have been completely and utterly defeated, your back has been broken, you can not walk and are restrained to a weel chair. What happens after the adreneline wairs off and the days pass and you come to the relisation that you will never be able to walk again. You see you can defeat villans, you can beat them up, but what do you do when your own body fails you... the answer is not a whole lot. And for heroes like Batman and Spider-Man that is the worst thing that can happen. Bruce spent a whole year recovering from his injury, he worked really hard through all the pain to get back into the shape he was at. Spider-man, doesn't have to do whole lot of work whenever he gets ingured because he heals fast, so it would hit him worse since Batman has always had to work hard to mentain his shape and to heal from injuries.

And that is only the physical part of it, how about the physcological part. To have your back broken is not like having your hand or ribs broken, especially when done violently and delebrately by an enemy. Being defeated like that has an effect on you. You begin to question if it was all worth it, and you seriously start to consider your life. I think if these happens to Peter it could be the last straw and he could give up being Spider-man (after all he has given up lots of other times for much lesser reasons). I just don't think that he would have the focus needed to work hard for a year, he would probably think that it was inevitable that he would one day get killed or injured badly and be thankful he is alive and continue with his life with MJ and teaching. Peter has a life outside of Spider-Man and I don't think he would risk it after breaking his back (I don't think MJ would allow him). For Bruce he has no life outside of Batman, that is where most of his life is focused at and without that he has very little in his life. That is why he fought so hard to get recover from his injury.

Originally posted by Duke
The point I'm trying to make is that Spidey can be just as determined as Batman can be because Spider-Man has an obligation, he has a responsiablity to protect the inoccents, his loved ones, and himself where as Batman lives for revenge of his Parents' deaths, so either way you look at it, both Spider-Man and Batman have a common goal and that's why they are able to push themselves past their mental and physical limits.

Batman does not fight for revenge but to prevent what happened to him from happening to others.

You are also missing my point. You see it is easy to talk about responsibility to protect the innocent when Spidy is in a condition to fight but when he is not even able to help himself I think that his responsibility to others will be the last thing in his mind. Specially if he broke his back trying to save the lives of people he does not know and people that hate him (especially when he reads the Daily Bugles version of the fight). I am sorry but his first priority will be to his family (May and MJ) and himself. After seeing the effect this has on them not to mention the effect it will have on him, I think he would have made his mind up on giving up on Spider-man by the time he leaves the hospital in a weelchair.

You see the fundamental difference between Batman and Spider-Man is that Peter has a life outside of Spider-Man while Bruce has very little else besides Batman, that is why he worked so hard to get his life back after his injury.

Here is a pic of Bane braking Bruce, Litterarly

but through all the fear stuff think of it like this bats is the night he is fear and all that other bs but has he ever had another person inside hsi head watchign hsi everythogt controlling his everymove and knowing that you will cease to exsist and it will take you that would be the venom symbyote peter survived that bat,s wont end of put that in your pipe and smoke it !!!

In a way Spider-Man is very much like Batman - neither of them will give up.

I think Spider-Man and Batman have the strongest wills, so comparring them off against each other is rediculous. Neither will give up.

Originally posted by Lenord
You are also missing my point. You see it is easy to talk about responsibility to protect the innocent when Spidy is in a condition to fight but when he is not even able to help himself I think that his responsibility to others will be the last thing in his mind. Specially if he broke his back trying to save the lives of people he does not know and people that hate him (especially when he reads the Daily Bugles version of the fight). I am sorry but his first priority will be to his family (May and MJ) and himself. After seeing the effect this has on them not to mention the effect it will have on him, I think he would have made his mind up on giving up on Spider-man by the time he leaves the hospital in a weelchair.

And, Red Superfly is right : both characters are VERY strongwilled, so comparing them is useless.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Not true, Spider-Man has a gigantic responsibility feeling towards other people, broken back or no broken back, broken neck or no broken neck. Oh, he will be depressed for a while, sure, who wouldn't, but he will chose the right thing to do, trust me.

And, Red Superfly is right : both characters are VERY strongwilled, so comparing them is useless.

The difference between the two is that Spider-Mans conviction has never been as focused or unwavering as Batmans. Spider-man has considered giving up being a hero a number of times before, and has also "quit" before (altho not for long), while Batman has never concidered giving up his role as the dark knight (not until the whole broken back incident).

It took Batman a year to recover from his injuries and he had the best doctors and theraphists that money had to offer, so lets say the Spider Man with his healing factor but without the best doctors and theraphists takes 6 months to get back into shape.... Now within that time he would get into the flow of a normal life without having to risk his life all the time and without endengering his family... You see before it was always his guilt for Uncle Bens death that always brought him back to being Spider-Man, and I think the injury will give him a way out without feeling that he has betraid the memory of his uncle. Besides I don't think he would go back to being Spider-Man knowing how worried his Aunt May and MJ will be if he was to resume it. I just think he has too much going for him in his life for him to go out and risk it all again, and his six month in a weelchair and away from being Spider-Man will make him realise this. He will probably want to have kids and have a normal life...

Originally posted by Lenord
The difference between the two is that Spider-Mans conviction has never been as focused or unwavering as Batmans. Spider-man has considered giving up being a hero a number of times before, and has also "quit" before (altho not for long), while Batman has never concidered giving up his roe as the dark knight (not until the whole broken back incident).

It took Batman a year to recover from his injuries and he had the best doctors and theraphists that money had to offer, so lets say the Spider Man with his healing factor but without the best doctors and theraphists takes 6 months to get back into shape.... Now within that time he would get into the flow of a normal life without having to risk his life all the time and without endengering his family... You see before it was always his guilt for Uncle Bens death that always brought him back to being Spider-Man, and I think the injury will give him a way out without feeling that he has betraid the memory of his uncle. Besides I don't think he would go back to being Spider-Man knowing how worried his Aunt May and MJ will be if he was to resume it. I just think he has too much going for him in his life for him to go out and risk it all again, and his six month in a weelchair and away from being Spider-Man will make him realise this. He will probably want to have kids and have a normal life...

He has quit his Spider-Man life a couple of times, true, but he always came back. Don't forget Peter Parkers private life is so much more complicated (and difficult ?) than that of Bruce Wayne.

First things first, batman first will as batman was revenge, later he use the excuse hes protecting people to what happened to him ,never happesn to them.peter parker was a teenager like 17 or 16 when he won his ppowers,he already was a grown up man in responsabilty, and what batman is? milionaire, thats right his a$$ is full with the greenis, so he never had the problem of aalmost being removed from his house, having to pay the medicine of a old aunt, and graduate and still helping people out there, as a teenager even the more nerd one want some fun, after being so beaten in what u believe is right wouldnt u doubt urself?
if u tell me not, ill believe u are a fanboy robot.i know batma started the fighting crime earlier ,i think like with 19 or 20s, but he never had to worry about the money,what is a constant worry for ordinary people,just ask ur father.
as i recall peter parker only gave away being spderman twice, once after almost being slaghtered by the kingpin,but seeing the chaos taking the city he came back ( the scene of this comic is on the second movie, where peter trowns his suit in a trash can ) and after being married mj and fooled venom to believe he was dead.he though he had done enough and should give mj more time with him to begin a family,(again this given up was due to his love to mj, not by lack of determination) on the same issue mj convince parker to get his powers back ,he lost them on a therapy, but that was just a trap of chamaleion and some other villains. gradually the power come back.
he LOST the powers at least as i know, 6 times:the therapy, after two colds, kravens poison. on massacre (onslaugh /onslough) series, and before after being mucked by a tranquilizant dart. , but losing powers is not giving away,even without powers he tryed to beat the villian,(no need to say he had his head broken, if black cat, and some other allies didnt help him.) .i like the fact raimi showed this peter determination to do good,in the fire builiding scene,even without powers he risked his life to save someone.
so cut off this bullcrap, we are talking about skills, spiderman wins. althoug batman is older, he never though someone like spiderman, and i may be wrong, but he never faced a super type,
ps: i dont consider mud man, and croc, neither ivy as supertypes, for me they are like mutants. i mean superpowers like blasting things u know, super strongers, cos i have to admit i dont read bat comics,
i remember also a grumpy man,and a human bat..and a wolf man. but they are no like spiderman

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ
First things first, batman first will as batman was revenge, later he use the excuse hes protecting people to what happened to him ,never happesn to them.peter parker was a teenager like 17 or 16 when he won his ppowers,he already was a grown up man in responsabilty, and what batman is? milionaire, thats right his a$$ is full with the greenis, so he never had the problem of aalmost being removed from his house, having to pay the medicine of a old aunt, and graduate and still helping people out there, as a teenager even the more nerd one want some fun, after being so beaten in what u believe is right wouldnt u doubt urself?
if u tell me not, ill believe u are a fanboy robot.i know batma started the fighting crime earlier ,i think like with 19 or 20s, but he never had to worry about the money,what is a constant worry for ordinary people,just ask ur father.

Bruce might have had money but he saw his parents being shot dead right in front of him when he was a kid for gods sake (Maybe 10/11). He lost his whole family and his whole world came crashing down on him at that age, can you imagine what that is like. At that moment Bruce lost his childhood, at least Spider-Man had a normal, loving family life until he got bit by the spider as a teenager, I think Bruce would have done anything to get the years Peter had with his family. You see Peter might have had a lot of money trouble but at least he had his aunt to talk to, to see and take care of him. You assume that because Bruce did not put on the mantle of Batman until he was a bit more grown up than Peter you assume he had an easier childhood. I think he had a much more difficult childhood than Peter, because while Peter had his friends and family, Bruce was going to boarding schools, studing hard with almost a non exesting social life, training his body to the very limits in preparation for when he would put on the costume of Batman. Unlike Peter, being Batman was a decision that Bruce made at a very yound age, and everything after that in his life has been getting prepared for that task.

The thing is how many of you belive that Peter would have become a super hero if he was not bitten by a spider (I am gessing 0). If he was not bittin by the spider and came back home one day and found that his Aunt and Uncle were killed by a burgalar I think that he would deal with it like any other person and grieved for a time and then try and get on with his life. I don't see him suddly going into training to become a superhero and there is the fundamental difference and why I am always saying that Bruce has more determination than Peter.

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ

as i recall peter parker only gave away being spderman twice, once after almost being slaghtered by the kingpin,but seeing the chaos taking the city he came back ( the scene of this comic is on the second movie, where peter trowns his suit in a trash can ) and after being married mj and fooled venom to believe he was dead.he though he had done enough and should give mj more time with him to begin a family,(again this given up was due to his love to mj, not by lack of determination) on the same issue mj convince parker to get his powers back ,he lost them on a therapy, but that was just a trap of chamaleion and some other villains. gradually the power come back.

He has given up being Spider-man more than twice (in fact I have lost count of the number of times he has done thise, after the second time I just got pissed off by the whole "I am Spider-Man no more" storyline and just wished he would make up his mind)

Originally posted by Spiderman_RJ

he LOST the powers at least as i know, 6 times:the therapy, after two colds, kravens poison. on massacre (onslaugh /onslough) series, and before after being mucked by a tranquilizant dart. , but losing powers is not giving away,even without powers he tryed to beat the villian,(no need to say he had his head broken, if black cat, and some other allies didnt help him.) .i like the fact raimi showed this peter determination to do good,in the fire builiding scene,even without powers he risked his life to save someone.
so cut off this bullcrap, we are talking about skills, spiderman wins. althoug batman is older, he never though someone like spiderman, and i may be wrong, but he never faced a super type,
ps: i dont consider mud man, and croc, neither ivy as supertypes, for me they are like mutants. i mean superpowers like blasting things u know, super strongers, cos i have to admit i dont read bat comics,
i remember also a grumpy man,and a human bat..and a wolf man. but they are no like spiderman

ehhh... the reason he went on to fight without his power most of the time is because the villane was treatening his loved ones or innocent people unless Spider-Man showed up ( Peter is not stupid he would not go after his enemy without his power unless they gave him no choice). I can clearly remember that one of the times he lost his power to cold he only went on to fight Doc Ock because he kidnapped Aunt May in order to force Peter to find Spider-Man and pass on his challange. All I can say is that if Peter broke his back and then after 6 months of being nursed back to a full recovery with the help of MJ and May, I don't think that MJ will forgive him if he went back to being Spidey again, and will probably end up leaving him. As for his aunt I think she will have some strong words to say on the subject.

P.S. Do you think Peter will stop being Spider-Man when he has a kid...