Euhm, did I say something special about adamantium or the resources of Batman? Didn't think so.
Your point? If you HAVE one? The only ADVANTAGES Wolverine has over Batman are healing factor and adamantium. I addressed those "advantages." You did not have to say anything special about adamantium. I DID.
I noticed that Batman fans always use a lot of “ifs” when discussing a fight between Batman and any other guy. It comes down to something like this:
I am actually a Wolverine fan moreso than Batman, so clearly you are referencing someone else. As regards to Batman's fighting skills, read a Batman comic. Or two.
Oh, Wolverine has to fight Batman? No problem there for Batsie, I'm sure he will find something that counters adamantium. Something?? Like what, throw water at his adamantium skeleton and hope it will rust some day?
Are Wolverine's eyeballs made out of adamantium? Is his throat? Are the spaces between his ribcage? Are his muscles made out of adamantium? Does he bleed adamantium? Ask Elektra, Lady Deathstrike, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Spiderman - any of the many many characters who kicked Wolverine's ass if they had any problems with his adamantium.
I'd like to see Batman thrown into a square metal room after he was done taking a dump and then have his opponent thrown into the same room. Batman would lose more than half of these discussions.
Odd, because he WINS more often than not on the strength of his refusal to lose and his...wait a minute...what is his strongest asset? His BRAIN.
Originally posted by Never
Odd, because he WINS more often than not on the strength of his refusal to lose and his...wait a minute...what is his strongest asset? His BRAIN.
Yeah, I forgot how many issues i've read where Batman has 'BRAINED' an opponent to death! His brain can only be considered his strongest asset when he has a week (or however long) to use it, via his prep time. Screw that. Throw him into a ring without all of his fancy gadgets and printouts of his opponents from his computers in the batcave while recieving a massage from Alfred, and you have a very ordinary hero. I feel that he gets his @ss handed to him during the majority of the fights posted. Captain America, Daredevil, and Wolverine would all b!tch slap him.
Its a shame really. I like Batman alot. More so than Daredevil and Wolverine, but reading these posts make it fairly easy to hate him. I mean threads like Batman vs. Hulk and Batman vs. Superman (kyrponite ring,,,,God thats still the sorriest thing to ever grace comics), and people actually trying to dig stuff up as to where batman could actually win these fights. Whatever.
Never, you should stop putting words in my mouth, you know. I never said something important about the adamantium skeleton, I only mentioned it in my previous post because you mentioned it, and you keep coming back to it. If you have a problem with the things I have written - I assume you have - attack me on what I have written, but not on things I hardly give any thoughts.
But okay, since you insist. On a previous message somewhere, I summed up several ways to kill Wolverine. His skeleton certainly isn't going to protect him against several very serious wounds or against being strangled. But Batman will definitely break his hand when he hits Wolverines face with his full strength, it is almost like hitting a wall of steel.
And yeah, I agree with tkitna concering the "throw Batman in a cage and let's see what happens next". He will get his ass kicked many times, that's what gonna happen. Especially when he must fight someone like Wolverine. And his strongest asset, his brain, will look like spaghetti when they carry him outside. Or are you really trying to convince me (or yourself) that he has a chance against Wolverine?
The most important rule in the DC-Universe seems to be: "Thou shall not criticize the Dark Knight and question him in any way". Well, I don't give a **** about that rule. Batman is still overrated. Period. I already spoke of the deus ex machina thing the writers always come up with, and though that is a very bad thing, even in comic-land, I even haven't mentioned yet his seemingly endless supply belt. Is he a dark crimefighter or is he gadgetman?
Just look at the facts, and don't be blinded by the shiny light of your idols: Wolverine is too much a brutal, self-healing warrior with one of the sharpest claws there are, to be defeated by some gadgets. The martial knowledge of Batman is great against human opponents, but not against somebody like Wolverine.
But off course, if Batman had some weeks time to study his opponent, and if Wolverine is dumb enough to wait all this time....
For the record: you maybe won't say it, but I actually loved Batman. But only when he was a bit more human, and not the cold controlefreak he is nowadays.
Yeah, I forgot how many issues i've read where Batman has 'BRAINED' an opponent to death! His brain can only be considered his strongest asset when he has a week (or however long) to use it, via his prep time.
Wrong. When boxers are in a ring, is it all muscle memory? When basketball players are on the court, do they rely on instinct alone? When martial artists oppose one another, is it talent alone? No.
They THINK. They REACT. They devise strategies on the fly. They ANALYZE.
Throw him into a ring without all of his fancy gadgets and printouts of his opponents from his computers in the batcave while recieving a massage from Alfred, and you have a very ordinary hero.
When was Batman EVER considered to be "ordinary?" That which makes him EXTRAORDINARY are his analytical abilities (read: BRAIN), training regimen, and his tragic character flaw. Now if, by ordinary, you are referencing the fact that he has no superpowers - or, as they say in Marvel, he is not homo superior - then YES, he is ordinary.
I feel that he gets his @ss handed to him during the majority of the fights posted. Captain America, Daredevil, and Wolverine would all b!tch slap him.
Then you should read comics more often. Did you just read the JLA (Batman) vs. Avengers (Captain America) crossover? Did Batman get "bitchslapped?" Nope. None of the above would "bitchslap" Batman, although one could compose a convincing argument that they might BEAT Batman. That being said, did you NOT read my comment that Wolverine is no WALK IN THE PARK, but many are UNDERESTIMATING BATMAN?
mean threads like Batman vs. Hulk and Batman vs. Superman (kyrponite ring,,,,God thats still the sorriest thing to ever grace comics), and people actually trying to dig stuff up as to where batman could actually win these fights.
All things being equal, Hulk and Superman make Batman tenders out of Batman. YET, regarding Superman, Batman knows Superman through and through and uses his weaknesses against him, like he did SO many times before. Batman KNOWS Superman would pull his punches and try to talk him out of it. And what is he using most of all in analyzing Superman's weaknesses/talking to him during the fight? Not muscle. Not weaponry. Not gadgets.
His brain. Did you NOT read JLA when they were getting their asses handed to them by those aliens until BATMAN figured out how to beat them? Not with prep time, on the FLY. Captain America does the same thing (on the fly).
Never, you should stop putting words in my mouth, you know. I never said something important about the adamantium skeleton, I only mentioned it in my previous post because you mentioned it, and you keep coming back to it. If you have a problem with the things I have written - I assume you have - attack me on what I have written, but not on things I hardly give any thoughts.
Where did I put words in your mouth??? I said, QUOTE:
You did not have to say anything special about adamantium. I DID.
So...pray tell, where did I put words in your mouth?
Attack you? Hardly; I simply responded after your smart-ass quip here:
Euhm, did I say something special about adamantium or the resources of Batman? Didn't think so.
But Batman will definitely break his hand when he hits Wolverines face with his full strength, it is almost like hitting a wall of steel.
Now the ONLY reason I referenced ADAMANTIUM after you posted is because you said Batman has a "fair chance" of defeating Logan. Why a "fair chance?" BECAUSE of Logan's adamantium and healing factor. That's IT. They are equal in strength. Batman has the edge in martial arts, althought Wolverine's experience in covert ops training probably evens it out. Wolverine is not FASTER. He is not a better acrobat. He uses no gadgets.
His only edge comes from his ADAMANTIUM and HEALING FACTOR. That is why I mentioned them.
That being said, when does Batman EVER go leaping into battle full-tilt? Please show me where? Highly doubtful that he would throw his hardest punch FIRST. Again, read the recent crossover wherein you see he and Cap feeling each other out before any MAJOR attempts are made at neutralizing each other.
And yeah, I agree with tkitna concering the "throw Batman in a cage and let's see what happens next". He will get his ass kicked many times, that's what gonna happen.
And Wolverine got his ass kicked many times. Point being EACH wins WAY more often than not in a straight up fight with an equal opponent.
The most important rule in the DC-Universe seems to be: "Thou shall not criticize the Dark Knight and question him in any way". Well, I don't give a **** about that rule. Batman is still overrated. Period.
I don't give a **** about you not giving a **** about that rule, really. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion that Batman is overrated. I think the same about Wolverine.
Just look at the facts, and don't be blinded by the shiny light of your idols: Wolverine is too much a brutal, self-healing warrior with one of the sharpest claws there are, to be defeated by some gadgets.
Did Lady Deathstrike have any gadgets? Omega Red? Sabretooth? Cyber? Silver Samurai when he gave Wolverine all he could muster? Did BEAST have any gadgets? Did Elektra have any gadgets when she EASILY beat his ass, punctured his lungs with her sais, and left him for dead?
The martial knowledge of Batman is great against human opponents, but not against somebody like Wolverine.
It worked for Elektra (he could not even TOUCH her). It would work for Iron Fist, Batgirl, Lady Shiva, Karate Kid, Master of Martial arts, and Stick.
And Batman.
Did Elektra have any gadgets when she EASILY beat his ass, punctured his lungs with her sais, and left him for dead?
Pretty much answered your own question! The one thing that I think we all forget though, is Wolverines bezerker rage. I would be curious as to how batman would handle that. Ogun, who was probably at least batmans equal in martial arts, didnt fair to well when Wolverine flipped (as he was being fit for his coffin afterwards). My point being, sometimes being a great martial artist isnt good enough!
This is no argument, Wolverine is a mutant hello! Wolverine is faster, he rejuvinates mutantly quick, you can't match a human like Batman against a mutant like Wolverine. Batman would be dead on arrival, just on swift slice with his claw and it's end game. Be for real people. Batman is good against people like Joker, Riddler, do not put him in the class against Wolverine he's not even remotly close!
Let's see, what do we have here. Batman vs Wolverine? OK, here it comes:
a. Never, your comparison with boxers being in a ring, sucks. I know it's some kind of far fetched metaphor, but still, it sucks. Batman isn't a boxer, and neither is Wolverine. Boxing has rules, and most of the time there are 2 boxers in the ring who are roughly on the same level and, last but not least, who have the same weapons!! You hardly can say that about a fight between Batsie and Wolvie, can you?
And even if it were some kind of boxing match, if the other boxer was stronger, faster and incredibly tough, you get your ass kicked. Save the "your brain will save you always"- bull for somebody who believes in fairy tales.
b. Please, stop dragging every fight that Wolverine lost into your replies, just to prove your point. Did I ever say that Wolverine is invincible? The idea is preposterous. But if you really insist on making a list of the villains/heroes who have beaten Wolverine, please be honest and make also a list of all the mega-powered mutants/monsters/villains... that Wolverine has beaten. We all know the list is very impressive.
I could easily do the same for Batman e.g. by saying that even Judge Dredd has kicked his ass, but I won't, because it is a fight between Batman and Wolverine, not Elektra versus Dredd or whoever. And besides, Elektra isn't Batman, you know. According to your somewhat strange logic Batman can take Wolverine, because Elektra once beat Wolverine. Eurhm, yeah right...
c. I quote Never : "Why a "fair chance?" BECAUSE of Logan's adamantium and healing factor. That's IT."
another quote : "His only edge comes from his ADAMANTIUM and HEALING FACTOR. That is why I mentioned them."
Oh, is it? And aren't you forgetting a little detail, you know, his unbreakablerazorsharp claws which Wolverine handles pretty good? You know, those extremely dangerous weapons which make Wolverine the hero he is today? If Batman can come close enough to hit him with a kung-fu technique, he can expect a nice deep flesh wound in return - but nothing that his his mighty utility belt couldn't cure in a few seconds, I'm sure ;-)
Originally posted by tkitna
Pretty much answered your own question! The one thing that I think we all forget though, is Wolverines bezerker rage. I would be curious as to how batman would handle that. Ogun, who was probably at least batmans equal in martial arts, didnt fair to well when Wolverine flipped (as he was being fit for his coffin afterwards). My point being, sometimes being a great martial artist isnt good enough!
Since when was a sai considered to be a gadget? Ogun? From Kitty Pryde and Wolverine? Omg 😘
Sir, again, you do know Lady Shiva trained Batman, correct? No, I am not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Batman is her equal, but...you are aware of Lady Shiva's martial arts prowess, yes? Will await your response before continuing.
Regarding Wolverine's Zerk Rage, interesting point. I am not certain that it would grant him any substantial edge. He is just going all out. Not stronger. Not faster. Nastier, yes - and prone to making MORE mistakes.
a. Never, your comparison with boxers being in a ring, sucks. I know it's some kind of far fetched metaphor, but still, it sucks. Batman isn't a boxer, and neither is Wolverine. Boxing has rules, and most of the time there are 2 boxers in the ring who are roughly on the same level and, last but not least, who have the same weapons!! You hardly can say that about a fight between Batsie and Wolvie, can you?
LoL, did it suck because you did not understand it? Notice I gave you a basketball example just in case you did not "get" the boxing one? I THEN gave you a martial arts one JUST IN CASE you did not get the other two? Well hot damn, you did not.
"Suck? Did not say they are boxers. HOWEVER, do boxers NOT study their opponents prior to meeting them in the ring? Do they NOT devise strategies, pinpoint weaknesses? Does Batman NOT do the same thing, given prep time? Does he NOT devise strategies (he did in the Tower of Babel story arc), pinpoint weaknesses (he did in Dark Knight Returns against the mutant)? That being said, in the event his opponent pulls out something that he did NOT prepare for, he has to adjust ON THE FLY, using what? His brain.
So...did my example suck after all? Or your interpretation of it?
But if you really insist on making a list of the villains/heroes who have beaten Wolverine, please be honest and make also a list of all the mega-powered mutants/monsters/villains... that Wolverine has beaten. We all know the list is very impressive.
You do it. I am supporting Batman in this "debate" - what sense does it make for me to help you prove YOUR point?!
According to your somewhat strange logic Batman can take Wolverine, because Elektra once beat Wolverine. Eurhm, yeah right...
Show me where I said that, please? Pretty please? With sugar on top? You cannot, because I did not. You SAID:
Oh, Wolverine has to fight Batman? No problem there for Batsie, I'm sure he will find something that counters adamantium.
I asked if ELEKTRA had a problem with Wolverine and his adamantium? Notice she beat his ass without any gadgets, without breaking her hand on his hard ass head, and without so much as breaking a sweat? Batman is stronger, smarter, and with more resources. He CAN find a way to defeat Wolverine. He devised strategies to DEFEAT THE ENTIRE JLA in case they were subverted via alien mind control. THAT IS MY POINT. BATMAN CAN find a way. That is what he DOES.
Oh, is it? And aren't you forgetting a little detail, you know, his unbreakablerazorsharp claws which Wolverine handles pretty good? You know, those extremely dangerous weapons which make Wolverine the hero he is today? If Batman can come close enough to hit him with a kung-fu technique, he can expect a nice deep flesh wound in return - but nothing that his his mighty utility belt couldn't cure in a few seconds, I'm sure ;-)
LoL, and where are Elektra's nice deep flesh wounds? Sabretooth's? Spiderman's? Need I continue? Batman can definitely slow Wolverine down from long-distance - not vice versa.
😉
My money is on The Dark Knight. Although to some of you Wolverine's task may look pretty straight forward, it's not. As Never has stated, in the 7th JLA TPB 'Tower of Babel', Batman takes down the entire JLA, with ease I might add. (athough he didnt use the weapons against them himself, Ra's had no problems when using them).
Never - LoL, and where are Elektra's nice deep flesh wounds? Sabretooth's? Spiderman's? Need I continue? Batman can definitely slow Wolverine down from long-distance - not vice versa.
True. Oh so true...