Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't Hiruzan lose that fight against the 2 Kages and needed to suicide to draw?
Yea, I'd say so.
The explanation I give to make things fit is- "They're immortal, they know he's fairly low on total chakra, so they just were going to draw it out to win rather than do anything big".
That and maybe fighting in a cage limited them all.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You haven't seen the fight, either. Given that Hashirama would have to lure Madara aware from the village all the way to the Valley of the end, he must have been on the defensive for most of the fight until they got far enough away. Must have been rough getting there because Hashirama is no Minato*.*Come at me. mwhahahahaha
.....?
Now I'm just confused.
So....Hashirama had the ability to beat the shit out of both of them, but didn't because it would have been bad to do it in the village, but instead ran to the border of the freaking country, which was a couple days journey for genin so still fairly long distance, and then beat them both up?
.....that makes Hashirama look far more impressive than anything I could have typed.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, I'd say so.The explanation I give to make things fit is- "They're immortal, they know he's fairly low on total chakra, so they just were going to draw it out to win rather than do anything big".
That and maybe fighting in a cage limited them all.
That is how it probably worked yes. Or rather, that's the best way to rationalize it.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, I'd say so.The explanation I give to make things fit is- "They're immortal, they know he's fairly low on total chakra, so they just were going to draw it out to win rather than do anything big".
That and maybe fighting in a cage limited them all.
Bam.
He would have won if they were meatbags. He even managed to damage them in a way that no meatbag could recover from (cept maybe hashirama ...if he can regen whole legs).
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
.....?Now I'm just confused.
I can help with this one.
When you close your eyes when fapping, do you picture naked men or naked women?
If the former, you're probably gay. If the latter, you're probably straight. If both, you're bi.
If inanimate objects, you're a paraphiliac. If for animals, zoophiliac.
Hope that helps.
Pro-Tip: if it's feet you picture, what is the sex of the person those feet belong to? There's your answer.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So....Hashirama had the ability to beat the shit out of both of them, but didn't because it would have been bad to do it in the village, but instead ran to the border of the freaking country, which was a couple days journey for genin so still fairly long distance, and then beat them both up?
Oh. Right. Well, now this is embarrassing.
I didn't think this is what you meant since I soundly destroyed your last argument. I had no idea you were going back here because the only way you could have replied back was with a logical fallacy or just repeating yourself. In this case, you repeated it back my argument with a logical fallacy: a strawman.
Nice way to change my argument and then sum it up back to me as though it was always my argument. Classic strawman.
But, please do tell me, sir, how "luring" and "being on the defensive" is the same thing as "had the ability to beat the shit out of both of them, but didn't..."
Go ahead, I'm waiting. Should be good. 🙂
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
.....that makes Hashirama look far more impressive than anything I could have typed.
Okay, we'll go ahead and go with your strawman.
proves my point even more because Hiruzen WTF PWNED! WEEEE!
*does the dance*
Originally posted by NemeBro
You started off strong, but ended off badly. You should be disgusted with yourself, and if you have any sort of shame you should leave society to live as a hermit, so that no one will ever have to suffer your existence again.
Wait, you thought this was a 'serious business', debate?
Dude, Kishimoto clearly ****ed up the power scaling. It is not as bad as Dragonball...but it is still pretty bad.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Fallacy, strawman, BELLWETHER, EXCOGITATE....I can do that too ya know. 😮Seriously, explain the post. Because I'm not trying to strawman your argument. I'm trying to understand it. Hashirama "lured" them to the VotE(which is a long ass distance), while staying on the defensive? Why? I mean, I get that he wouldn't want to fight in Konoha but that's a looooooong distance to travel.
Keep in mind, if that's the case, then eventually he's still going to have to stop and take control of the Kyuubi from Madara and then fight said Madara, unless he really did make the Kyuubi do the work, which doesn't appear to be the case since Madara had a sword in him.
That does make Hashirama look better than what I was typing. Elaborate it. I'm confused about what you said?
You have no idea why Hashirama would want to lure Madara and Kurama aware from Konoha and then finish the fight all the way over at VotE?
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Neverminds.
no no no...you're asking me a serious question. So I am clarifying your question. Go ahead and answer that question and I'll post seriously for one or two posts.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You have no idea why Hashirama would want to lure Madara and Kurama aware from Konoha and then finish the fight all the way over at VotE?no no no...you're asking me a serious question. So I am clarifying your question. Go ahead and answer that question and I'll post seriously for one or two posts.
Because he wants to make the scenery nicer.
Originally posted by dadudemonI just told you to go live in a hermit because you're a noncontingent piece of shit.
Wait, you thought this was a 'serious business', debate?Dude, Kishimoto clearly ****ed up the power scaling. It is not as bad as Dragonball...but it is still pretty bad.
You thought I was serious businessing it up? haermm
Originally posted by NemeBro
I just told you to go live in a hermit because you're a noncontingent piece of shit.You thought I was serious businessing it up? haermm
Wait, you thought I thought you post was serious business just because it acknowledges that you might have mistaken my posts as serious business? haermm haermm crylaugh
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Because he wants to make the scenery nicer.
So there's nothing you can think of for why Hashirama would want to lure them both away from Konoha to VotE?
Nothing at all?
Do you have a precedence to go buy if a similar attack was done?
If so, what happened in that fight?
Originally posted by dadudemon
I think Jiraiya would kill Itachi and Kisame at the same time but would lose his life. Jiraiya would probably take a Amaterasu to his person in the process of having to dodge and hurt those other two.
Highly doubt it. Unless you are restricting Itachi and Kisame to their Part 1 feats and putting them in an environment where Jiraiya has a solid advantage, they'd beat Jiraiya fairly easily.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Dude, Hashirama built that giant ass forest in no time flat, when fighting Hiruzen. the fight was till epic and not was "under powered" as everyone makes it out to be.
Edo Hashirama created a giant ass forest in no time flat?
Yamato created a 'giant' forest created in 'no time flat'.
Madara created this 'giant-ass' forest in 'no time flat'.
Madara created this 'giant ass' forest created in literally, 'no time flat'.
Edo Hashirama created a, relatively speaking of course, pitifully sized forest in 'no time flat'.
Edo Hashirama's forest is, depending on your viewpoint, much smaller than or nearly comparable to that of Yamato's, who has admitted he does not compare to Hashirama. Edo Madara is supposed to be as strong as Hashirama was when it comes to Wood-release.
Originally posted by Q99
Gonna do a tentative summon list just to get it on type. I probably misremembered several of the recommendations and messed stuff up, but hey, tentative, I want you to correct me:Also- what about Tayuya's creepy giant trio that spit energy-draining ghosts, the Doki?
Manda V2 - Should be at least S- IMO by virtue of its enormous size (making Bijuu look like insects) and having what looks to be like the greatest strength feat so far (helping to flip the Island Turtle and stopping its forward movement).
Snake Tailed Chameleon- Would put this in at least A- rather than B+. It affords invisibility to the user, and the snake tail was capable of restraining KCM Naruto, albeit with Nagato tugging out his soul. Seems more impressive than the Drill-beak Bird summon.
B+ for the Doki I guess. Don't remember them being that impressive, even if they had a hax ability, and they were entirely dependent on Tayuya's flute.
What about Gedo Mazo? It oneshotted the forces of Hanzo and Danzo, and had some uber feats when Tobi summoned it at the beach.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Edo Hashirama created a giant ass forest in no time flat?Yamato created a 'giant' forest created in 'no time flat'.
IMO, that's hard to tell if there was actually a forest created. It may have been just local. I have looked at the scans before and after and I cannot tell if it is just a few trees or a forest. Besides, Yamato looks exhausted and fed-up in the panel you showed.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Madara created this 'giant-ass' forest in 'no time flat'.
Madara created this 'giant ass' forest created in literally, 'no time flat'.
Uhhh...that's kind..of..my exact point. What is your point?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Edo Hashirama created a, relatively speaking of course, pitifully sized forest in 'no time flat'.
Yeah, Hashirama created the forest in no time, flat. Like..faster than any shower you presented. It was absurdly fast and near instant. The only thing I can think of that did a wood sumon that fast was Yamato to the wood house.
Also, the barrier is quite a large rectangular cuboid:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-123-1/naruto/chapter-118.html
Hashirama filled that up, immediately.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-127-4/naruto/chapter-122.html
The forest is quite huge. I would put it at about the same size as the one that Madara threw at Naruto.
Mix in the fact that it was nearly instant and you can see that Hashirama's mukotan is faster and more potent that Madara's. More to the point, Hashirama seems to be able to create it faster and has more minute detail control over his (he was grabbing onto Hiruzen as Hiruzen was trying to get away...something I do not remember Madara doing with the Kage).
Also, keep in mind that Hashirama could only fill up the place he was confined in. If they were not confined, a forest creation that fast would fill up the landscape every bit as fast as Madara's did when he used that "choke out" version.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Edo Hashirama's forest is, depending on your viewpoint, much smaller than or nearly comparable to that of Yamato's, who has admitted he does not compare to Hashirama. Edo Madara is supposed to be as strong as Hashirama was when it comes to Wood-release.
I do not see any of the above information as contradicting Kishimoto's continuity problems in power. I still see hashirama's mukotan being every bit as potent as Madara's...and at that, Hashriama's seems faster and more detailed in accuracy. Like I said, it filled up the rectangular cuboid, which was quite large, very quickly: nigh instantly.
HOWEVER...I do freely admit that Hashirama and Tobirama used low-power techs earlier in the fight. It seemed very under-powered compared to stuff that even came slightly later in the series compared to Naruto.