The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, he’s exhausted and mad. We have a precedence that proves he is clearly exhausted. He is also mad at Naruto because Naruto is being a tard, as usual.

Is this precedence him being exhausted when he creates a huge house? I don't think that would count here. Tell me what it is if it is not the house thing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Did I ever say that it was the same size as the one used against the Kage?

*reads post, again*

Nope.

So what is your point? 313

Madara's usage of Mokuton = Hashirama's >>>> Edo Hashirama's.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And in some views, it looks 50 x 50 x 90 which is exactly 225,000 m^3. In other views it looks 15, x 25, x 30, which is exactly 11,250 m^3

Looks nowhere near 50 x 50 x 90. 15 x 25 x 30 is more probable.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Did I ever say that it was the same size as the one used against the Kage?

*reads post, again*

Nope.

So what is your point? 313

Madara's usage of Mokuton = Hashirama's >>>> Edo Hashirama's.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, Hashirama’s was instant and Yamato’s grew…on panel.

a) Panels cannot be used as a unit of time.

b) Edo-Hashirama's grew on panel as well. 😐
Both took two panels to grow completely, but whereas Edo-Hashirama's grew in an undefined amount of time, Yamato's grew when everyone was still in mid-air.

Originally posted by dadudemon
A few things wrong with this:

1. That does not mean he would be capable of creating wood outside the barrier, as well. In fact, it would seem he couldn’t since he didn’t. In a versus matchup, you could not arbitrarily give him the ability to do that because he wasn’t seen doing it. So why would you baselessly assume he could?
2. Your conclusion is non sequitur to the evidence you supplied to justify it. Additionally, that last point you made is actually my point: he was confined and could not have created a larger forest. Let me make it more clear for you: he literally could not make it any bigger lest he crush or hurt Oro. So you saying that he forest looked about the size of the r. cuboid is no different than saying what I have already stated. Also, even if your evidence wasn’t baseless and contradicted by on panel evidence, you still did not disprove my point that Hashirama is limited on how large of a forest he could create.
3. Yamato already stated his Mukotan is crap compared to Hashirama’s. Therefore, anything Yamato does is automatically <<< anything Hashirama could potentially do. Additionally, Hashirama’s tech seems to be fully realized by Madara. So anything Madara does with it is roughly = to anything Hashirama could do with it. As fact, when the largest forest created with Mukotan was executed by Madara, no one said, “this shit is better than Hashirama’s”. Tsunade remarked that it was the same tech her grandfather used. Meow. Come at me. Hashirama is > or = Madara’s use of Mukotan. Hehehehehe 313

1 & 2. The fact that he can create Wood without the need for close contact and close range, which is proven by Yamato, says otherwise. So no.

3. You are stating that Yamato is <<< Hashirama, and that Edo-Madara's usage of Mokuton = Hashirama's. Good. Thank you for reiterating my point using far more words; I do hope you've realized by now that Edo Hashirama's usage of Mokuton was nowhere near as powerful as Edo-Madara's & by extension, Hashirama's, and that Edo-Hashirama was not using Hashirama's entire arsenal.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Wel the fact that he was able to hide is a more pressing issue than simply being large.

He can burrow like Manda could.

Originally posted by Q99
Ah, and back to whining, are we? 🙂

Once again, it's a chart open to input from anyone who provides, y'know, reasons. You don't like that... well, who cares? There's no reason to ignore accuracy for the whims of one who whines like a petulant child.

So, now that you have two other people wanting Manda V2 to be in S or S+ by virtue of his sheer physical size making Bijuu look like insects, and his stats, will you do it?

Gosh darn Q99. So mean. 😆

Why would Edo Hashi create wood outside the confined area? His opponent was inside after all. Looks like Psycho's trolling was successful 131

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

So, now that you have two other people wanting Manda V2 to be in S or S+ by virtue of his sheer physical size making Bijuu look like insects, and his stats, will you do it?

Yep 🙂

Gotta say I'm liking this story surrounding Kabuto. It's got that classic Naruto feel to it for me. Hope it gets better as time goes on.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Gotta say I'm liking this story surrounding Kabuto. It's got that classic Naruto feel to it for me. Hope it gets better as time goes on.

I liked it as well. 😊

Oh and since Manda V2 is headed towards S+, Kabuto definitely goes there now.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I liked it as well. 😊

Oh and since Manda V2 is headed towards S+, Kabuto definitely goes there now.

Well, he has held his own against to S+ class nin for a while, now. By feats, yeah, he is already S+.

His sage mode, alone, would make him an S, imo. But he has far more at his disposal than just a sage mode: he has among the medical ninjutsu around (I would say that he is in the top three or four when it comes to his medical ninjutsu prowess...possibly even tied for first with Tsunade if you consider his experimental medical ninjutsu being beyond anything Tsunade can do...but that's more biological ninjtusu than medical ninjutsu and I am relating the two fields to the real world stuff...which may be wrong).

So, yes, I would argue for an S+ rating for Kabuto without much effort. He fits there, comfortably, now: no doubt. We may have to raise his level to SS- if things get too out of hand in the next 5 chapters.

Double Penetration: I will address you post when I get home. I cannot view scans from mangareader while at work because I cannot change my proxy. I figure I should wait until I can make a better case with actual scans, including yours. There's no rush for me to prove why you are wrong. stoned

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, he has held his own against to S+ class nin for a while, now. By feats, yeah, he is already S+.

His sage mode, alone, would make him an S, imo. But he has far more at his disposal than just a sage mode: he has among the medical ninjutsu around (I would say that he is in the top three or four when it comes to his medical ninjutsu prowess...possibly even tied for first with Tsunade if you consider his experimental medical ninjutsu being beyond anything Tsunade can do...but that's more biological ninjtusu than medical ninjutsu and I am relating the two fields to the real world stuff...which may be wrong).

So, yes, I would argue for an S+ rating for Kabuto without much effort. He fits there, comfortably, now: no doubt. We may have to raise his level to SS- if things get too out of hand in the next 5 chapters.

I have two arguments against this. The first being that the two S+ nin he's fighting are specifically holding back. Next, Kabuto is laem and will never live down losing both the Third Raikage and Nagato.

BTW, did anyone ever catch Muu?

Originally posted by Q99
Yep 🙂

Awesome. S+ like I stated at the very beginning, or S like I stated later on?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I liked it as well. 😊

Oh and since Manda V2 is headed towards S+, Kabuto definitely goes there now.

Kabutomaru's lucky Manda V2 does not seem to be as temperamental as Manda. Otherwise, Kabutomaru would be scared shitless of Manda V2 awesome

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, he has held his own against to S+ class nin for a while, now. By feats, yeah, he is already S+.

His sage mode, alone, would make him an S, imo. But he has far more at his disposal than just a sage mode: he has among the medical ninjutsu around (I would say that he is in the top three or four when it comes to his medical ninjutsu prowess...possibly even tied for first with Tsunade if you consider his experimental medical ninjutsu being beyond anything Tsunade can do...but that's more biological ninjtusu than medical ninjutsu and I am relating the two fields to the real world stuff...which may be wrong).

Double Penetration: I will address you post when I get home. I cannot view scans from mangareader while at work because I cannot change my proxy. I figure I should wait until I can make a better case with actual scans, including yours. There's no rush for me to prove why you are wrong. stoned

He's holding his own against two S+ nin who are specifically aiming to subdue him. Itachi could have owned him at the beginning if he wanted to get rid of him. But this is all moot anyway, since I too believe he should be in S+ now as he can control the land around him and has a hax attack that could disable a lot of people, in addition to his Sage Mode, Snake techs, and Medical Ninjutsu.

Whatever. Not gonna reply to that particular topic anyway as I've lost interest in it and Old-age Sarubobi is and will always be weak-sauce no matter what you may say. 313
Feel free to post a response though. kruemelmonsteryn0

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I have two arguments against this. The first being that the two S+ nin he's fighting are specifically holding back. Next, Kabuto is laem and will never live down losing both the Third Raikage and Nagato.

BTW, did anyone ever catch Muu?

To his credit, he has done shit like dodging Sasuke's arrow.

Don't think so. What happened to Muu is kinda ghey. Half-power and he cannot use Dust-Release? What, is it ridiculously chakra-heavy?

Kabuto's got crazy defense, but if the Uchiha twins were willing to amaterasu him, I don't know what he could do. Or Itachi soul-swording him. It's the 'we need him alive' part that's really limiting them. So many Uchiha techniques are only killy in nature.

His offense so far is the sound/vibe stunning jutsu, and the making the terrain smash someone is good.

I don't think he's above Jiraiya at this point. Though updates may happen.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Awesome. S+ like I stated at the very beginning, or S like I stated later on?

When someone could go between two, I prefer to go lower.

Lemme point out Manda's genjutsu vulnerability too, which should apply to MII as well.

So my personal vote is S.

I also think most people with a big booooom could take him down. Biju balls, Deidara's bomb, Dust, etc..

Don't think so. What happened to Muu is kinda ghey. Half-power and he cannot use Dust-Release? What, is it ridiculously chakra-heavy?

Probably. Keep in mind that Onoki was down enough he couldn't do Dust after matching him for awhile, and Muu'd been spending just as much. And then he split.

It may also just be harder to do in half-form.

Itachi couldn't do mangekyo techniques in the 1/3rd power clone, even though mangekyo techniques don't take up 1/3rd of his chakra.

Originally posted by Q99
When someone could go between two, I prefer to go lower.

Lemme point out Manda's genjutsu vulnerability too, which should apply to MII as well.

So my personal vote is S.

I also think most people with a big booooom could take him down. Biju balls, Deidara's bomb, Dust, etc..

Isn't Manda V2 mindless?

And Deidara's bomb just barely killed the original Manda.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And Deidara's bomb just barely killed the original Manda.

Indeed. Manda still survived for a few moments after the explosion. Not sure how long but it was long enough to be summoned and carry on a conversation with Sasuke.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Isn't Manda V2 mindless?

It lacked a personality.

I don't think that'd help against genjutsu. Might even hurt.

And Deidara's bomb just barely killed the original Manda.

True. Still, he could drop large bombs like the one he used on Suna, he could nano-bomb into it's mouth, suicide clay clones inside it's mouth... his explosives would inflict quite significant wounds, and since he flies he could avoid it pretty well. With a bit of cleverness I'd give him a solid majority.

Originally posted by Q99
When someone could go between two, I prefer to go lower.

Lemme point out Manda's genjutsu vulnerability too, which should apply to MII as well.

So my personal vote is S.

I also think most people with a big booooom could take him down. Biju balls, Deidara's bomb, Dust, etc..

Genjutsu vulnerability is something that applies to a large number of ninjas, summons, and the Bijuu; Manda's case is similar to the Bijuu IMO.

High level Bijuu Balls could take him out, but I don't think Deidara's C3 would take him out. C0 is iffy, seeing as Manda got hit by it and nearly survived, but it apparently wasn't hit for long or something like that. C4 on the other hand would take out Manda V2, but then again, it would take out anyone lacking knowledge of the tech and/or the ability to use Raiton on oneself.

Dust would take out anyone if it hit them, and both Dust Release users are in S+.

Originally posted by Q99
Probably. Keep in mind that Onoki was down enough he couldn't do Dust after matching him for awhile, and Muu'd been spending just as much. And then he split.

It may also just be harder to do in half-form.

Itachi couldn't do mangekyo techniques in the 1/3rd power clone, even though mangekyo techniques don't take up 1/3rd of his chakra.

Yeah, I figured it was similar to Nagato's 30% clone of Itachi and his inability to use the MS. But I did forget that Muu had been using a lot of dust techs to stalemate Onoki before splitting.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Genjutsu vulnerability is something that applies to a large number of ninjas, summons, and the Bijuu; Manda's case is similar to the Bijuu IMO.

It's not quite the same since with biju it seems to be only Uchiha and Senju can control it.

Manda II doesn't have the advantage. Jiraiya could Frog Song it and then spend the next ten minutes on the actual kill.

Anyone with strong genjutsu seems like they'd be able to take good advantage.

High level Bijuu Balls could take him out, but I don't think Deidara's C3 would take him out. C0 is iffy, seeing as Manda got hit by it and nearly survived, but it apparently wasn't hit for long or something like that. C4 on the other hand would take out Manda V2, but then again, it would take out anyone lacking knowledge of the tech and/or the ability to use Raiton on oneself.

There are people who could avoid C4 or have a defense against it (avoiding it/having a chakra shroud preventing it from getting in them/blitzing Deidara before he has a chance/etc.).

Even with C3, I bet if it was detonated in it's mouth or stomach that'd do ^^

Dust would take out anyone if it hit them, and both Dust Release users are in S+.

When I look at the S+ list, it strikes me as all or almost all of the ones there could beat him.

When I look at the S list, it strikes me some could, but others couldn't.

Stats:

SS
Madara Uchiha (Rinnegan + Wood)^
Naruto Uzumaki (Full Partnership)
Tobi (Jinchuuriki Paths)^

SS-
Hashirama^
Kurama (Full power)
Madara Uchiha (EMS only)^
Nagato (Pain or Solo)

S+
Itachi Uchiha
Izuna Uchiha
Ged&#333; Maz&#333;
Gy&#363;ki
Killerbee
Minato Namikaze
Mito Uzumaki
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha (Complete Susano'o)
Second Mizukage
Third Raikage
Tobi (Sharingan only)^
Yagura

S
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Deva Path (Yahiko/Pain)
F&#363; (Jinchuuriki)
Gaara (Kage)
Jiraiya
Han
Kabuto* (Orochimaru Merge Sage)
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Konan*
Kushina Uzumaki
Manda II
Mei Terumi
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)*
Orochimaru*
Roshi
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo w/incomplete susano'o)
Shukaku
Tsunade
Utakata
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito Nii

S-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Fukasaku
Ginkaku
Hidan
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Mangetsu H&#333;zuki (Swords)
Mifune
Might Gai (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shima
Shisui Uchiha
Zetsu (Black half or Complete)

*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei, preparing multiple sage-mode charges, or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.

^These characters have high-level Biju control of tailed beasts outside of their bodies.

A+
Animal Path (Pain)
Asuma Sarutobi
Asura Path (Pain)
Enma
Hiashi Hyuuga
Ibuse the Salamander
J&#363;go
Kabuto Yakushi
Kakashi Hatake (part 1)
Kimimaro Kaguya (sick)
Mangetsu H&#333;zuki (No swords)
Might Gai (part 1)
Multi-Headed Dog
Suigetsu H&#333;zuki
Suikazan Fuguki (Samehada)
Yamato
Zabuza Momochi

A
Ao
Baki
Baku
Dodai
F&#363; (ANBU)
Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Gamabunta
Gari
Giant Clam
Hizashi Hyuuga
Human Path (Pain)
Kankur&#333; (with Sasori puppet)
Katsuyu
Killer Bee (Young, Minato fight)
Kurenai Yuhi
Kurotsuchi
Manda
Munashi Jinpachi
Naruto Uzumaki (post elemental training)
Neji Hyuuga (part 2)
Pakura
Ringo Ameyuri
Sasori (Sans puppet arsenal)
Torune

A-
C
Ch&#333;j&#363;r&#333;
Ch&#333;ji Akimichi (Asuma Fight)
Ch&#333;za Akimichi
Gamahiro
Gamaken
Inoichi Yamanaka
Jinin Akebino
Kushimaru Kuriarare
Kakko (Kakashi Gaiden)
Naruto Uzumaki (start of part 2)
Preta Path (Pain)
Sai (post-emotions)
Shibi Aburame
Shikaku Nara
Shizune
Suikazan Fuguki (No sword)
Temari (start of part 2)

B+
Drill-Beaked Bird
Genma Shiranui
Haku
Ibiki Morino
Ittan
Kakashi Hatake (Kakashi Gaiden)
Kankur&#333; (as of Sasori fight)
Mahiru
Naraka Path (Pain)
Naruto Uzumaki (One Tail)
Rock Lee (part 2)
Sai (start)
Sakura Haruno (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (VotE)
Snake-Tailed Chameleon

B
Anko Mitarashi
Gaara (Chuunin Exam)
Giant Crab/Ox/Panda/Rhino
Ino Yamanaka (4th Shinobi War)
Kamatari
Kankur&#333; (Sasuke Retrieval)
Omoi
Sakon/Ukon
Shino Aburame (part 2)
Shikamaru Nara (part 2)
Taiseki (Kakashi Gaiden)
Temari (Sasuke Retrieval)
Three Great Snakes
Toroi
Tsume Inuzuka

B-
Aoba Yamashiro
Ch&#333;ji Akimichi (start of part 2)
Doki
Giant Centipedes
Hayate Gekk&#333;
Hinata Hyuuga (part 2)
Jir&#333;b&#333;
Kiba Inazuka (part 2)
Kid&#333;maru
Neji Hyuuga (Sasuke Retrieval)
Shin
Tayuya
Tenten (Part 2)

C+
Ebisu
Ino Yamanaka (start of part 2)
Karin
Naruto Uzumaki (Post Rasengan Training)
Neji Hyuga (Chunin exam)
Rock Lee (Chunin exam)
Sasuke Uchiha (Chunin exam finals)
Shikamaru Nara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Temari (Chunin exam)
White Zetsu Clone

C
Dosu
Iruka
Izumo Kamizuki
Kankuro (Chunin exam)
Konohamaru Sarutobi (part 2)
Kotetsu Hagane
Obito Uchiha (Sharingan)
Rin
Sasuke Uchiha (Sharingan)
Shikamaru Nara (Chunin exam)
Shino Aburame (Chunin exam)
Yashamaru

C-
G&#333;zu (Demon Brother)
Kiba Inazuka (Chunin exam)
Meizu (Demon Brother)
Mizuki
Naruto Uzumaki (Post clone jutsu)
Obito Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Sasuke Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Shigure

D+
Ch&#333;ji Akimichi (Chunin exam)
Hinata Hyuga (part 1)
Ino Yamanaka (Chunin exam)
Kin
Oboro
Tenten (Chunin exam)
Zaku

D
Misumi Tsurugi
Sakura Haruno (Chunin exam)
Yoroi Akad&#333;

D-
Rock Lee (Just graduated Genin)
Sakura Haruno (Start)

E+
Naruto Uzumaki (pre-clone jutsu)

E-
Konohamaru Sarutobi (start)
Rock Lee (Academy flashback)

---

Moved Manda II to S, added Three Great Snakes to B, added Doki to B-.

they asked for a justified kabuto bump which didn't even happen, yet that whole damned list was re-posted....

i'll just appoint myself chief editor of my own list (whch will include everything that moved in the manga, even "baka" crow from the filler eps) and subject you all to it every chance i get too 🙂

lol @ democracy

Yeah Kabuto needs a bump. His techs are hax and he has the best summon in the series(next to Tobi obviously).

Isn't it just Aura who's asked for a Kabuto bump so far?

Personally I'd like to wait a bit more. Get more input from others, and maybe see some more jutsu. I'm not saying 'no,' just 'more info and opinions'.

Also, I think most of the S+ would beat him at this point if going for the kill. I mean, if Itachi and Sasuke were doing Amaterasu and using soul-swords and such, don't you think this would be a very different fight? That is, even individually?