The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by dadudemon
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No, Naruto does not have the Frogs with him. Also, there is no guarantee that Kurama and Naruto are BFFs.

I know you may not care about hand seals but, apparantly, the Sandaime Hokage, the Yondaime Hokage, and the Godaime Hokage seemed to care about hand seals quite a bit with Minato showing us what S-Class levels of hand seals can be like with S-Class ninjutsu: broken.

They are independent entities, at that point. They are fighting as their own fighters, not as part of a single unit like they do with Jiraiya. Additionally, Naruto has not summoned Ma and Pa for a while. Naruto seems to have progressed/advanced beyond the need to use them.

Also, Naruto seems to have amped the speed at which he can enter into Sage Mode.

I understand that currently, Naruto does not have the frogs with him, I'm just saying that it isn't out of character for him to do so.

It matters little if Kurama and Naruto are BFF's (I was just saying), they have developed a co-operative relationship recently so it wouldn't make any sense at all that Kurama would not aid him if in a genjutsu.

Hand seals only matter if that's all your about like Kakashi,Orochimaru, etc. Why would they matter in the slightest if you can defeat people like pain without using them? He has sage mode that doesn't require hand signals. Rasengan doesn't require hand signals. Clone jutsu requires an easy hand signal. Summoning requires an easy signal, so I'm not an agreeance that hand sinals are uber important.

Yes they are separate entities, which proved my point that they don't have to bond to use the genjutsu like you said. I agree, he doesn't need them, but I'm saying it's still a tool he has.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nailed it again. 👆

I particularly like his desciption of Sasuke as an arrogant cvnt whose made it his mission to ruin everything good about the series..

Originally posted by socool8520
I understand that currently, Naruto does not have the frogs with him, I'm just saying that it isn't out of character for him to do so.

It is neither in character for him to use them, as well...as he seems to have outgrown a need for them.

Originally posted by socool8520
It matters little if Kurama and Naruto are BFF's (I was just saying), they have developed a co-operative relationship recently so it wouldn't make any sense at all that Kurama would not aid him if in a genjutsu.

Well, it does to you. You used the BFF state to justify why Kurama would be nice to Naruto. I am not so sure, yet. I have no definitive proof that Kurama would knock-Naruto out of a genjutsu. He might...he might not.

Originally posted by socool8520
Hand seals only matter if that's all your about like Kakashi,Orochimaru, etc. Why would they matter in the slightest if you can defeat people like pain without using them? He has sage mode that doesn't require hand signals. Rasengan doesn't require hand signals. Clone jutsu requires an easy hand signal. Summoning requires an easy signal, so I'm not an agreeance that hand sinals are uber important.

High-level hand seals matter for every kage in every village because they have to be able to seal tailed beasts. Sealing tailed beasts is considered very high-level hand seal stuff.

That's just one reason to be able to be very proficient in hand seals.

Originally posted by socool8520
Yes they are separate entities, which proved my point that they don't have to bond to use the genjutsu like you said. I agree, he doesn't need them, but I'm saying it's still a tool he has.

Well, they aren't tools. They are thinking, sentient, beings. Naruto does not use them, they work with him if he summons them.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is neither in character for him to use them, as well...as he seems to have outgrown a need for them.

Well, it does to you. You used the BFF state to justify why Kurama would be nice to Naruto. I am not so sure, yet. I have no definitive proof that Kurama would knock-Naruto out of a genjutsu. He might...he might not.

High-level hand seals matter for every kage in every village because they have to be able to seal tailed beasts. Sealing tailed beasts is considered very high-level hand seal stuff.

That's just one reason to be able to be very proficient in hand seals.

Well, they aren't tools. They are thinking, sentient, beings. Naruto does not use them, they work with him if he summons them.

Says who? He can still benefit from their advice, strength, and techniques. How has he outgrown them?

I meant it in jest by the way. However, it shows him smiling while thinking about Naruto, as well as him sharing his power, what more do you need? Hell, B and his bijuu don't even have the best relationship and he gets helped.

okay and not every kage has sealed a bijuu by his/herself. A had a team with him and one person died just as an example. Plus naruto did fix the seal on his stomach if I'm not mistaken so he is improving. Also, I thought you meant hand signals in regards to jutsus anyways, so, my bad.

this is just splitting hairs here. obviously I know they aren't inanimate objects to be used. I'm simply stating that he has them strategically

okay and not every kage has sealed a bijuu by his/herself. A had a team with him and one person died just as an example. Plus naruto did fix the seal on his stomach if I'm not mistaken so he is improving.

And Cloud had the jar. I think Sand had some sealing item too.

Heck, Hashirama never sealed Kurama, Mito did.

Kage are usually involved in the beating down of the biju, but the sealing doesn't have to be their own skills.

Okay, this Rock Lee anime is great. It had Naruto and Rock Lee feel bad when they stood next to Neji at the bathroom urinals. :T

Originally posted by socool8520
Says who? He can still benefit from their advice, strength, and techniques. How has he outgrown them?

Show one example, post Pain Invasion Arc, where Naruto Summoned Ma and Pa to help in a fight and I'll change my mind.

Exactly. 🙂

Originally posted by socool8520
I meant it in jest by the way. However, it shows him smiling while thinking about Naruto, as well as him sharing his power, what more do you need? Hell, B and his bijuu don't even have the best relationship and he gets helped.

Of course the title "bff" was a joke, but the actual point you made that utilized the idea of a bff, was not.

Originally posted by socool8520
okay and not every kage has sealed a bijuu by his/herself. A had a team with him and one person died just as an example. Plus naruto did fix the seal on his stomach if I'm not mistaken so he is improving. Also, I thought you meant hand signals in regards to jutsus anyways, so, my bad.

You do not know that: they all very well could be part of a biju sealing since the first generation of Kage. We know Hashirama, Hiruzen, Minato, and Tsunade all have very high-level hand sealing levels (Hashirama because of his biju work). Then Tobirama has to have very high level hand seal knowledge because he was the most inventive Hokage in existence (and he used the FTG technique). So that's pretty much all the Hokage's having 4-5s in hand seals. Then there's the Raikage's which all seem to be directly involved in the biju sealing process. Then there's the Yondaime Kazekage who was the one who did the sealing of the tailed beast directly into Gaara...so it seems in every example I have supplied, so far, that all Kages are directly involved with bijuu sealing which is high level hand seal stuff.

Originally posted by socool8520
this is just splitting hairs here. obviously I know they aren't inanimate objects to be used. I'm simply stating that he has them strategically

I meant my reply in the same way you are using it, as well. You made it seem as though they were insubordinate to Naruto: they are not. Don't you care about Ma and Pa's feelings? 🙁

Originally posted by dadudemon
Of course the title "bff" was a joke, but the actual point you made that utilized the idea of a bff, was not.

You do not know that: they all very well could be part of a biju sealing since the first generation of Kage. We know Hashirama, Hiruzen, Minato, and Tsunade all have very high-level hand sealing levels (Hashirama because of his biju work). Then Tobirama has to have very high level hand seal knowledge because he was the most inventive Hokage in existence (and he used the FTG technique). So that's pretty much all the Hokage's having 4-5s in hand seals. Then there's the Raikage's which all seem to be directly involved in the biju sealing process. Then there's the Yondaime Kazekage who was the one who did the sealing of the tailed beast directly into Gaara...so it seems in every example I have supplied, so far, that all Kages are directly involved with bijuu sealing which is high level hand seal stuff.

I meant my reply in the same way you are using it, as well. You made it seem as though they were insubordinate to Naruto: they are not. Don't you care about Ma and Pa's feelings? 🙁

Your correct, I did imply that there relationship has strengthened. That is supported by Kurama's attitude change towards Naruto in the last few chapters they were in, him willingly releasing power to Naruto without trying to control him. What have you read that makes you doubt that he would aid Naruto?

And yet you do not know that everyone of the kages directly sealed a bijuu by themselves. As I mentioned, A was involved in the sealing process, however, he was also aided. Sasori didn't directly seal away kurama, Minato did. I'm pretty sure Naruto has enough sealing capabilities to aid in a sealing process since he fixed the seal of his own bijuu. He needs work in that are definitely, but I don't think it is essential for him or anyone else to be a kage.

the latest naruto movie has a pretty cool end fight, largely because of gamabunta (pun intended)

^ What movie was that?

Originally posted by dadudemon

I meant my reply in the same way you are using it, as well. You made it seem as though they were insubordinate to Naruto: they are not. Don't you care about Ma and Pa's feelings? 🙁

He can call them them whenever he wants so they kind of are. Sure I care about their feelings, but at least Naruto doesn't mistreat them. I mean Gai used his tortoise as a spring in mid air. lol naruto is far nicer in comparison.

Originally posted by socool8520
Your correct, I did imply that there relationship has strengthened. That is supported by Kurama's attitude change towards Naruto in the last few chapters they were in, him willingly releasing power to Naruto without trying to control him. What have you read that makes you doubt that he would aid Naruto?

We also do not know how long lasting that is. With Kurama, he never lost his wits. He was just full of piss and vinegar (still is, to some extent). Not wild like the Hachibi or other beats. I made this point in the past to others. Basically, Kurama could still be a massive dick and is only using Naruto to keep from getting captured.

Originally posted by socool8520
And yet you do not know that everyone of the kages directly sealed a bijuu by themselves.

I never said or implied that, though. 🙂

However, I will say this: I am almost certain that they had help...each and every one. Except for the first sealing of Kurama into Mito. Mito did that on her own.

Originally posted by socool8520
As I mentioned, A was involved in the sealing process, however, he was also aided. Sasori didn't directly seal away kurama, Minato did. I'm pretty sure Naruto has enough sealing capabilities to aid in a sealing process since he fixed the seal of his own bijuu. He needs work in that are definitely, but I don't think it is essential for him or anyone else to be a kage.

Sasori did not seal away Kurama, at all. Not sure where that is coming from.

He fixed the seal most likely via the instructions of Jiraiya. He was told about his seal/educated.

But, yes, it is essential to be a Kage, it would appear. At least in the old world where the Biju functioned as nukes and MAD was in full force.

Originally posted by socool8520
He can call them them whenever he wants so they kind of are.

And as Gamabunta indicated, they will not comply if they do not want. 🙂

Originally posted by socool8520
Sure I care about their feelings, but at least Naruto doesn't mistreat them. I mean Gai used his tortoise as a spring in mid air. lol naruto is far nicer in comparison.

No you don't. You think they are tools and slaves to Naruto. 🙁

They are ALLLIIIIVE! 🙁

Originally posted by dadudemon
And as Gamabunta indicated, they will not comply if they do not want. 🙂

No you don't. You think they are tools and slaves to Naruto. 🙁

They are ALLLIIIIVE! 🙁

Never once did I say they are slaves. ever. The truth is he can call them at will. Do you deny that? I never said they have to help them. But, because of his treatment of them, I'm sure they will. I happen to like the frogs by the way.

Originally posted by dadudemon
We also do not know how long lasting that is. With Kurama, he never lost his wits. He was just full of piss and vinegar (still is, to some extent). Not wild like the Hachibi or other beats. I made this point in the past to others. Basically, Kurama could still be a massive dick and is only using Naruto to keep from getting captured.

However, I will say this: I am almost certain that they had help...each and every one. Except for the first sealing of Kurama into Mito. Mito did that on her own.

Sasori did not seal away Kurama, at all. Not sure where that is coming from.

He fixed the seal most likely via the instructions of Jiraiya. He was told about his seal/educated.

But, yes, it is essential to be a Kage, it would appear. At least in the old world where the Biju functioned as nukes and MAD was in full force.

First i disagree with this for reasons I already mentioned. However, even if this is the case, you said yourself, he would do what he needs to do to not get captured. Would that not involve possibly freeing Naruto from a genjutsu?

I'm also certain that the kages had help, which is why i don't think it's absolutely essential to be able to seal one by yourself. naruto has shown the capability to hold his own against bijuus which would be handy enough as a kage. A team could do the sealing while he weakens it. Day saved.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean Sasori, I meant Hiruzen Sarutobi....epic fail on my part. lol and you're right, he didn't seal a bijuu and his seal techniques are a 5 although I don't care match for the handbooks.

Originally posted by socool8520
First i disagree with this for reasons I already mentioned. However, even if this is the case, you said yourself, he would do what he needs to do to not get captured. Would that not involve possibly freeing Naruto from a genjutsu?

There's only two people (that we know of) that can seal Kurama if Naruto is captured: Madara and Tobi. It is possible that Kabuto could seal him, but most likely not. What does this mean? Only against Madara and Tobi would Kurama legitmately need to step in. 🙂

Originally posted by socool8520
I'm also certain that the kages had help, which is why i don't think it's absolutely essential to be able to seal one by yourself. naruto has shown the capability to hold his own against bijuus which would be handy enough as a kage. A team could do the sealing while he weakens it. Day saved.

I don't think I stated that each Kage had to be able to seal a biju by themselves. If I did, I was wrong and I retract that. If I didn't say that...mo fugga...I will cut you. 😠

Naruto may now be able to hold his own against multiple biju, but only with the help of Kurama. If both were healthy and at full chakra, I think Naruto would be able to easily beat all the other 8 biju at the same time. Since Kurama is at half chakra power (and we have statements that make it seem as though Kurama, at half power, equals the chakra level of the other 8 biju, combined), with Naruto's help and more practice with his biju, Naruto might be able to stalemate and possibly win with Kurama.

Originally posted by socool8520
I'm sorry. I didn't mean Sasori, I meant Hiruzen Sarutobi....epic fail on my part. lol and you're right, he didn't seal a bijuu and his seal techniques are a 5 although I don't care match for the handbooks.

Eh...figured you meant someone else. Warning: I do that all the time (just ask Aura Angel, Q99, and Demonic Phoenix).

I think Hiruzen's seal ratings are so high because he was said to have learned all the jutsus in Konoha...which would include quite a bit of hand seals. That also means he would have learned how to seal himself some biju. 😄

Hiruzen did do the death god seal.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Eh...figured you meant someone else. Warning: I do that all the time (just ask Aura Angel, Q99, and Demonic Phoenix).

See, you're doing it again.

(Dadudemon really meant Aura, Blax, and Orochimaru)

Originally posted by Q99
Hiruzen did do the death god seal.

That was one of them. Arguably, that's the most potent of all seals.

See, you're doing it again.

Originally posted by Q99
(Dadudemon really meant Aura, Blax, and Orochimaru)

Damn it, you're right.

Originally posted by dadudemon
There's only two people (that we know of) that can seal Kurama if Naruto is captured: Madara and Tobi. It is possible that Kabuto could seal him, but most likely not. What does this mean? Only against Madara and Tobi would Kurama legitmately need to step in. 🙂

I don't think I stated that each Kage had to be able to seal a biju by themselves. If I did, I was wrong and I retract that. If I didn't say that...mo fugga...I will cut you. 😠

Eh...figured you meant someone else. Warning: I do that all the time (just ask Aura Angel, Q99, and Demonic Phoenix).

I think Hiruzen's seal ratings are so high because he was said to have learned all the jutsus in Konoha...which would include quite a bit of hand seals. That also means he would have learned how to seal himself some biju. 😄

this is very true, however, Kurama would also not want Naruto to die. what easier way to kill naruto then to trap him in a genjutsu like tsukoyomi? Especially since there's not many people in the manga that can hang witn Naruto physicall at this point.

You may not have meant that a kage did it solely by himself. I was just arguing that hand seals are not necessarily the deal breaker for a hokage. You do have great seal users like Hiruzen, but you also have feared opponents like A and Gaara that don't really seem to rely on them.

I appreciate the lack of getting ridiculed for making the obvious mistake.

When I said I didn't really buy into the handbooks, i didn't mean Hiruzen. i fully agree that he should be maxed out in the Ninjutsu/hand seal department. he is the father of ninjutsu after all. I think Orochimaru and kakashi should be right up there as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That was one of them. Arguably, that's the most potent of all seals.

The death God seal is great, but it's a last ditch effort. Wouldn't want to rely on that one in a fight unless you know you will die. lol