The Official Naruto series Thread

Vs. Konan

S-
Chiyo - Win. Not much trouble. -Konan being made of paper isn't vulnerable to poison by stabbing, can fly around/through puppets protecting her, and is pretty much invulnerable to most of the techniques she does. Also Konan has bigger scale of attacks. Chiyo's at a sizable, pretty overwhelming disadvantage.

Danzo - Win. Without much trouble.- With just wind? Seems unlikely. If he can actually get his hand on her he can do seals, but she can easily block ranged jutsu of his magnitude. He doesn't have a lot of chakra and he's not super fast. He'll die in a swarm of paper.

Darui - Win, but it is a 6 out of 10.- Maybe a bit different odds, but basically in that league, lasers are nasty and can go around paper shields to strike Konan directly.
Fukasaku - Win, easily. -Eh, his frog punches won't hurt her, and frog-yell won't take her down either. Though he probably does have some genjutsu, but it's not easy.
Ginkaku - Win, easily. -He'd have to transform, which he can't do at will. Non transformed, he just gets blown up.
Hidan - Win, easily. Hidan has literally no ways to hurt her. He cannot make her bleed. Gets blown up 10/10.
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old) - Win, easily.-He can win, but it won't be that easy, she can block most of his jutsu.
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2) - Win, easily. -Stands a chance at the least, but raw amount of attacks is still going to be an issue for him. Reasonable chance of being overwhelmed by raw numbers of attacks/explosives.
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy) - Win, easily. -How's he going to hurt her? He can't get to melee and his range is weak, and even if he attacked in melee he couldn't do damage because she's paper. Hard to take down but the result is inevitable.
Kinkaku - Win, easily. -See Ginkaku. Actually, I forget which one has the fan. The one with the fan stands some chance, the other not so much. But she can block jutsu as big as the fan's so even the one with is like 3-4/10, and the one without maybe 1-2/10.
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada) - Win, easily. -Stand a chance but she can operate in water pretty well. With Samehada he'd be pretty well off, but without, a whole bunch of blades flying in his lake will be an issue. This is the ninja who divided an ocean with her paper, she can do the same against him and he'll be in big trouble. She holds the advantage here.
Kitsuchi - Win, easily. -Earth user, again, how's he even going to hurt her? Easy win for Konan.
Mifune - Wins, easily. -Can cut, but... so what? She's paper. She'll blow him up no problem. Plus, flight, so even getting a chance to cut is iffy. He's pretty darn screwed.
Might Gai (part 2) - Easy win...she doesn't stand a chance. -His normal taijutsu is useless. He'll have to go at least 6 gates, maybe 7 if she keeps at a distance. And if she goes in close without the gates, she can cover him completely in paper, start suffocating him, do explosions, etc. etc.. She stands plenty of chance even against someone of his magnitude.
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2) - Wins, easily. -Fire and lightning and genjutsu is a pretty good combo against her. She's good enough that he'll have to work for it, but he does have probably the best chance of the S-s.
Shima - Win, easily. -See Fukasaku
Shisui Uchiha - No idea...unproven. He could be an A, for all we know. -He has his genjutsu eye which'd work if nothing else.
Zetsu (Black half or Complete) - No idea: virtually unproven. Could win, could lose. -He has wood, purely physical. He's pretty screwed.

A+ list:

Animal Path (Pain) - Win, easily. - Only one or two summons have attacks that could even hurt her (the bird with it's bomb and... I can't think of another, but there's a lot so maybe another can). She can fly around most and go strait for animal. She also has enough explosives and blades to kill summons. Pretty solid win for Konan.
Asuma Sarutobi - Win, 6 out of 10. -Nah, his jutsu is mostly stuff like fireballs, which she can block just fine. Maybe 2/10 for him.
Asura Path (Pain) - Win but it is 7 out of 10.- Blades are useless, missiles and beams will work. Not much defense against being blown up, though. 3/10 for him.
Enma - Win, easily. -Another can't hurt.
Hiashi Hyuuga - Win, easily. -Now, Gentle Fist seems pretty nasty against her... if it can get into HtH. Which it probably can't. So, yea, she can handle him consistently.
Jūgo - Wins 3 out of 10. -Agreed. Chakra beams are useful.
Kabuto Yakushi - Wins, easily. -Too bad he's shown no range. Pretty easy for her.
Kakashi Hatake (part 1) - Wins but with trouble.- Has very little chakra, is easily outlasted.
Kimimaro Kaguya (sick) - Wins, easily. -See Kimimaro above, he couldn't win without a time limit.
Might Gai (part 1) - Wins, easily. -Without the option of Afternoon Tiger, noticeable lower odds than part 2 Gai.
Multi-Headed Dog - Wins, easily. -Save for the "cannot hurt" thing. Easy win for her.
Suigetsu Hōzuki - Wins, without much trouble. 9 out of 10. -See, neither can hurt each other too well, except her explosives can do some damage and his blade can do none. She's also done bigger jutsu, so he'll run out of chakra before her.
Suikazan Fuguki (Samehada) - Wins, easily. Probably the easiest win in the A+ levels. -He still has to get into melee with Samehada. Some wins, but also pretty high odds of getting killed before he can do so.
Yamato - Easy win. Wood >>>>>>>>>>>>>> paper. -In utility maybe, but actually against paper? It can't grab her, it can't crush her, Yamato's pretty much screwed due to lack of ability to hurt her.
Zabuza Momochi - Loses 8 out of 10. -I'd say 10/10. His water dragon is the only attack he'd have that'd even inconvenience her.

-----

Now, I'm noticing two main things here. One, you seem to be ignoring her 'most attacks won't work on due to her being paper' factor. Unless someone has genjutsu or jutsu that can destroy paper they're in trouble, and many really do have neither. Even those that can destroy paper, she's shown she can take hits.

You've literally got people with no way of hurting her listed as 'easy win'.

Two, I think you're underestimating her demonstrated offense. She can both do explosives, and she can control gigantic amounts of paper at one time and fill an area with paper completely. Paper Ocean shows she can handle masses at once.

I mean, if you ignore that she has the paper logia intangibility, yea, she would be A+ or so, but it's one of her central abilities. It'd be like ignoring Suigetsu's and just putting him as a nin with a sword.

Naruto Rankings (dadudemon version)

SS
Madara Uchiha (ET body with Rinnegan)
Naruto Uzumaki (Current)
Nagato (Solo ET Form)
Tobi (with: rinnegan, sharingan, 6 paths)
Minato (1 v 1, only)

SS-
Itachi Uchiha (Edo Tensei Body)
Kurama (all chakra, solo)
Madara Uchiha (Rinnegan only)^
Nagato (emaciated 6 Paths Form)
Minato Namikaze

S+
Deva Path (Yahiko/Pain)
Itachi Uchiha (Right before fight with Sasuke)
Izuna Uchiha
Gedo Mazza
Gyuki
Hashirama ^
Jiraiya (Sage Mode while bonded with Ma and Pa)
Killerbee
Madara Uchiha (EMS)^
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha (Complete Susano'o)
Second Mizukage
Third Raikage
Tobi (Sharingan only)^
Yagura

S
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Fū (Jinchuuriki)
Gaara (Kage)
Jiraiya
Han
Kabuto* (Orochimaru Merge Sage)
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Kushina Uzumaki
Manda II
Might Gai (7 Gates)
Mito Uzumaki **
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)*
Orochimaru*
Roshi
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo w/incomplete susano'o)
Tsunade
Utakata
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito Nii

** Unconfirmed abilities but had minor control over a full powered Kurama. Most likely, she was quite powerful due to being an Uzumaki and having sealed Kurama into herself.

S-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Fukasaku
Ginkaku
Hidan
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Konan* (With Prep)
Mangetsu Hōzuki (Swords)
Mei Terumi
Mifune
Might Gai (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shima
Shukaku
Zetsu (Black half or Complete)

*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei, preparing multiple sage-mode charges, or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.

^These characters have high-level Biju control of tailed beasts outside of their bodies.

To be continued...but here are a couple of A+ ninjas before I forget I removed them from the S-Class list:

A+

Shisui Uchiha
Konan

I am considering moving Konan to A after discussing her abilities, at length, with Q99. Q99 has done well to convince me that Konan is quite useless against higher level opponents.

I am considering moving Konan to A after discussing her abilities, at length, with Q99. Q99 has done well to convince me that Konan is quite useless against higher level opponents.

Considering she actually does well against higher level opponents, I find this odd.

I mean, she opened an *ocean* with her paper. That takes a ton of chakra and a ton of control. It's a bigger jutsu than anything even Kakuzu did.

Originally posted by Q99
Considering she actually does well against higher level opponents, I find this odd.

No she doesn't. She did poorly against Jiraiya and did well against Tobi...and she prepped for ages for Tobi.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No she doesn't. She did poorly against Jiraiya and did well against Tobi...and she prepped for ages for Tobi.

And Konan almost killed him with a non-prep move (who's simple setup, i.e. filling a large area with blades of paper, would kill many ninja), and the giant prep move still required oddles and oddles of chakra because it was *huge*. Nor was Konan out of the fight with Jiraiya, just hit with a jutsu that disadvantaged Konan so Pain tagged in.

You keep leaving out those 'details,' specially the first two.

Originally posted by Q99
And she almost killed him with a non-prep move,

More exaggeration. lol

She didn't even come close to killing him.

Originally posted by Q99
and the giant prep move still required oddles and oddles of chakra because it was *huge*.

This is a baseless assumption. We have no idea how much chakra it takes to TK her own paper. I covered this already when we argued about it last time.

Originally posted by Q99
Nor was she out of the fight with Jiraiya, just hit with a jutsu that disadvantaged her so Pain tagged in.

And you base this on anything other than speculation? Because you're just speculating. Jiraiya quickly neutered her.

Originally posted by Q99
You keep leaving out those 'details,' especially the first two.

I didn't leave anything out. What I did do is properly quantify what actually took place instead of assuming she has lots of chakra and incorrectly assuming she even came close to killing Jiraiya.

Originally posted by dadudemon
More exaggeration. lol

She didn't even come close to killing him.

She blew off his arm, damaged his masked, and Tobi himself commented that if he hadn't switched quickly they'd have both died. So yes, she did almost mutual-kill an S+ and did as much damage as Minato did to him.

Also that blast showed that she can lose 2/3rds of her body and still be fine.

This is a baseless assumption. We have no idea how much chakra it takes to TK her own paper. I covered this already when we argued about it last time.

And the fact that it's still moving more stuff than Gaara's stand tsunami or Kisame's mobile lake doesn't matter?

It really doesn't matter if it took no chakra- the scale is still huge. The power involved is huge.

Saying it doesn't take much chakra- which would be odd, big jutsu pretty much always take lots of chakra- is just begging the question. It also doesn't reduce the actual impressiveness of it, holding back an ocean for 10 minutes and subjecting the target to continuous attack.

You're saying 'maybe it didn't take much chakra' as if that makes it non-impressive and non-threatening. If it didn't, then that just means that Konan has the most freakily chakra-efficient jutsu in the series, but can still do large scale S-class jutsu in any case (and that's not even counting the bombs! Just controlling that much stuff at once is S-class).

You're acting like the fact that she planned to do something in advance made it not-count as powerful regardless of the power involved.

And you base this on anything other than speculation? Because you're just speculating. Jiraiya quickly neutered her.

Based on the fact Konan was ready to jump back in, and that we have no reason to believe the oil did anything but make her paper stick together.

And remember the whole 'she can lose 2/3rds of her body and be fine,' thing she demonstrated a bit later. Jiraiya could've squeezed her in half with that hair and Konan would be fine according to her shown feats.

I didn't leave anything out. What I did do is properly quantify what actually took place instead of assuming she has lots of chakra and incorrectly assuming she even came close to killing Jiraiya.

She didn't come close to killing Jiraiya. She did come close to killing Tobi even without her prep move.

Heck, Konan's got 'logia' style defense which I know you're ignoring in your rating.

Originally posted by Q99
Multi-Headed Dog - Wins, easily. -Save for the "cannot hurt" thing. Easy win for her.

She can't put it down normally, and it can't do much to her either. She'll need her Paper Angel tech to win, which would be useless on Land without Explosive Tags.

Originally posted by Q99
Suigetsu Hōzuki - Wins, without much trouble. 9 out of 10. -See, neither can hurt each other too well, except her explosives can do some damage and his blade can do none. She's also done bigger jutsu, so he'll run out of chakra before her.

Don't see explosives hurting Suigetsu at all, at least not if he's already liquidized. He can't hurt her either, and as I don't know if his suffocation attack would work, it's either a stalemate, or Konan outlasts him.

Also, what about Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)?

That said, yeah, DDM's lowballing of Konan is funny, and about as bad as his wanking of Minato.

She can't put it down normally, and it can't do much to her either. She'll need her Paper Angel tech to win, which would be useless on Land without Explosive Tags.

She can use tags normally. Just, y'know, not in that quantity 🙂

And her Paper Angel technique still involves a crazy number of cuts.

Guess it is really hard to do physically, and she is largely physical. I mean, the odds of it taking her out are pretty much zilch, but...

Don't see explosives hurting Suigetsu at all, at least not if he's already liquidized. He can't hurt her either, and as I don't know if his suffocation attack would work, it's either a stalemate, or Konan outlasts him.

I think they'd make him use chakra. Outlasting, like you say.

Also, what about Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)?

Well, she doesn't crush, he's all about the crushing, and he ran out of chakra in less time than it took her to maintain Paper Angel.

Might be able to sneak in some explosives close enough to do some damage too.

That said, yeah, DDM's lowballing of Konan is funny,

I mean, how can she possibly lose to someone like Kitsuchi, who's attacks are purely about crushing and who isn't immune to being cut with shuriken-like attacks?

Well if Kitsuchi got her with that big ol' mountain sammich technique, he'd win.

But chances of that are slim.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well if Kitsuchi got her with that big ol' mountain sammich technique, he'd win.

But chances of that are slim.

What would even that do, though?

She can turn into a bunch of paper butterflies. They turn vertical and a mountain sammich doesn't even tickle.

How does she get out lol?

Originally posted by Q99
She can use tags normally. Just, y'know, not in that quantity 🙂

And her Paper Angel technique still involves a crazy number of cuts.

Guess it is really hard to do physically, and she is largely physical. I mean, the odds of it taking her out are pretty much zilch, but...

Explosive tags wouldn't do any lasting damage to it though. It has tanked Giant Rasengans and a Rasenshuriken after all.

Her odds of taking it out are pretty slim too. She'd have to go after Animal Path/Nagato/Rinnegan user.

Originally posted by Q99
I think they'd make him use chakra. Outlasting, like you say.

He's never really had chakra problems iirc. Water content is a bigger problem to him, so unless he's on a Lake, which itself would give an advantage to Konan, outlasting him should be no problem. Still not an easy fight for her or Suigetsu.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, she doesn't crush, he's all about the crushing, and he ran out of chakra in less time than it took her to maintain Paper Angel.

Might be able to sneak in some explosives close enough to do some damage too.

He was using 4-5 massive jutsu iirc, in addition to that Sand armor that was pretty chakra heavy. And I don't remember him running out of chakra either. Besides, I doubt Konan would have more chakra than a Jinchuurikii.
Trapping Konan underground should stop her.

Yeah, that could work. His sand was pretty fast back then though.

Originally posted by Q99
I mean, how can she possibly lose to someone like Kitsuchi, who's attacks are purely about crushing and who isn't immune to being cut with shuriken-like attacks?

He can defend himself against those attacks.
Has no way to put her down . Mountain Sandwich wouldn't work as she can disperse in her Paper form.

Oh, and Chiyo does have a Vacuum attack iirc, as does Danzo with his Baku. They would work, even if Konan is in her Paper form. She has better odds of winning against those two however.

He was using 4-5 massive jutsu iirc, in addition to that Sand armor that was pretty chakra heavy. And I don't remember him running out of chakra either.

Gaara was pretty exhausted by the end there.

He can defend himself against those attacks.

For a bit, but he's no Suigetsu.

Oh, and Chiyo does have a Vacuum attack iirc, as does Danzo with his Baku. They would work, even if Konan is in her Paper form. She has better odds of winning against those two however.

Yea, they can do some damage, but she can replenish paper pretty fast, and block Chiyo's like she blocked the fireball.

Baku- throw bombs into his mouth works, we saw how it reacts to that kind of thing (i.e. badly).

Originally posted by Q99
Gaara was pretty exhausted by the end there.

He was, but was he panting and stuff like Konan?

Besides, for all we know, Konan may have better chakra control than Gaara.

Originally posted by Q99
For a bit, but he's no Suigetsu.

Yeah, but seeing as he knows that, he'll likely be watching his defences. Explosive tags are what would be more dangerous IMO.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, they can do some damage, but she can replenish paper pretty fast, and block Chiyo's like she blocked the fireball.

Baku- throw bombs into his mouth works, we saw how it reacts to that kind of thing (i.e. badly).

How did she block the fireball again?

That was a fireball amped by the wind suction. And while she's smart, she's more of a strategist than a tactician, so I don't know if she'll be able to send out explosive tags before she gets sucked up.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He was, but was he panting and stuff like Konan?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He was, but was he panting and stuff like Konan?

He was sweating and had a thought-bit about being low on chakra from doing too many big moves, and his last one was it.

Besides, for all we know, Konan may have better chakra control than Gaara.

Six one, half a dozen the other. Whether you're being more efficient or just have more gas, it's the size of the result that matters.

Yeah, but seeing as he knows that, he'll likely be watching his defences. Explosive tags are what would be more dangerous IMO.

They're more individually dangerous but her clouds of blades can get pretty plentiful. Remember how much they surrounded Tobi- they were passing through him for several seconds before her got a gap.

How did she block the fireball again?

She just shot paper at it. Paper blast, if you will.

That was a fireball amped by the wind suction. And while she's smart, she's more of a strategist than a tactician, so I don't know if she'll be able to send out explosive tags before she gets sucked up.

Considering her move list is pretty short, I think she'd get it.

Originally posted by Q99
She blew off his arm, damaged his masked, and Tobi himself commented that if he hadn't switched quickly they'd have both died. So yes, she did almost mutual-kill an S+ and did as much damage as Minato did to him.

Yeah, except that she prepped it forever and Minato did it on the fly. The feat is much more impressive for Minato.

Originally posted by socool8520
Yeah, except that she prepped it forever and Minato did it on the fly. The feat is much more impressive for Minato.

Uh, only the Paper Angel's several billion tags were said to require prep.

The 'blowing off the arm and mask' thing is just something she can do on the fly. It's as much planning as Sasuke did against Itachi.

And Minato did his damage on their second clash, i.e. after he had seen how the phasing power worked too.

Thinking ahead doesn't make jutsu less powerful. It just means the user is more likely to pick the right jutsu.

It just means she wouldn't have faired as well without the prep. I still think she is S-ranked but she was well equipped for the fight with Tobi well before hand. She did not fair as well against Jiraiya on the fly and she knew of his abilities.

Minato on the other hand had very little to no knowledge of Tobi beforehand, and was still able to hurt him after only seeing his technique moments before. Minato's was actually on the fly, Konan's was not.