The Official Naruto series Thread

I'll toss out that Konan has useful non-combat/disguise abilities too- she was able to construct a tree that appeared entirely like a tree and was only detected by a sensor.

An enemy could be surrounded by her paper and not know it.

Originally posted by socool8520
It just means she wouldn't have faired as well without the prep. I still think she is S-ranked but she was well equipped for the fight with Tobi well before hand.

Agreed, she wouldn't have almost gotten him twice otherwise.

She did not fair as well against Jiraiya on the fly and she knew of his abilities.

But that one worked both ways, Jiraiya's actually Konan's teacher who taught Konan how to use paper jutsu in the first place, and his selection of jutsu is pretty crazy.

Tobi had plenty of knowledge of her too having worked on the same organization for years, and it didn't help him as much.

Minato on the other hand had very little to no knowledge of Tobi beforehand, and was still able to hurt him after only seeing his technique moments before. Minato's was actually on the fly, Konan's was not.

The first time he merely escaped. It was only after that, he gained knowledge of the 'you must strike simultaneously.'

It wasn't mid-exchange or anything, he had time to consider those abilities after seeing both phasing and space-warping at work.

Originally posted by Q99

Agreed, she wouldn't have almost gotten him twice otherwise.

But that one worked both ways, Jiraiya's actually Konan's teacher who taught Konan how to use paper jutsu in the first place, and his selection of jutsu is pretty crazy.

Tobi had plenty of knowledge of her too having worked on the same organization for years, and it didn't help him as much.

Th first time he merely escaped. It was only after that, he gained knowledge of the 'you must strike simultaneously.'

It wasn't mid-exchange or anything, he had time to consider those abilities after seeing both phasing and space-warping at work.

Glad we can agree.

Sure it works both ways. I was merely using it to show that she is not a dominating force to everyone without prep. Which is why she should be placed lower than him.

he did have alot of knowledge of her and with his superior skillset, that's why he won. How did it not help him much? Had he not known her abilities he probably would have died.

You must admit though,Minato's exchange was much less time to formulate a strategy than being able to prepare billions of paper bombs

Sure it works both ways. I was merely using it to show that she is not a dominating force to everyone without prep. Which is why she should be placed lower than him.

*Nods*

he did have alot of knowledge of her and with his superior skillset, that's why he won. How did it not help him much? Had he not known her abilities he probably would have died.

True.

You must admit though,Minato's exchange was much less time to formulate a strategy than being able to prepare billions of paper bombs

Yea 🙂 I compare it more to her first attack run- in both of those cases it was simply a matter of jutsu selection against the same ability.

Originally posted by Q99
He was sweating and had a thought-bit about being low on chakra from doing too many big moves, and his last one was it.

Do you mean this? Seems like he's talking about Kimimaro to me.

Originally posted by Q99
Six one, half a dozen the other. Whether you're being more efficient or just have more gas, it's the size of the result that matters.

Yeah, I'd say Shukaku's backing gives him the better results.

Originally posted by Q99
They're more individually dangerous but her clouds of blades can get pretty plentiful. Remember how much they surrounded Tobi- they were passing through him for several seconds before her got a gap.

Kitsuchi's shield would make a frontal attack useless.

Originally posted by Q99
She just shot paper at it. Paper blast, if you will.

She's not stopping Chiyo's vacuum puppet attack by shooting paper at it.

Also, yeah, I guess she's use explosive tags in that situation then.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Do you mean this? Seems like he's talking about Kimimaro to me.

Hm, that's pretty different from what the Viz translation says.

Also Kimimaro proceeds to follow it up with his biggest jutsu yet, and he really hasn't been using big jutsu anyway.

Kitsuchi's shield would make a frontal attack useless.

It had a view slot, and she can circle around paper easily enough too.

Unless he denies himself sight, he's vulnerable.

She's not stopping Chiyo's vacuum puppet attack by shooting paper at it.

*Looks over the attack*

It was pretty big, but it was handled by simply having an attack come from another direction.

Originally posted by Q99
Hm, that's pretty different from what the Viz translation says.

Also Kimimaro proceeds to follow it up with his biggest jutsu yet, and he really hasn't been using big jutsu anyway.

Haven't seen the Viz translation, so I wouldn't know.
Not the only time someone's been proven wrong about their opponent's chakra levels. Kimimaro also died right after, so he may have really just exhausted the absolute last reserves of chakra he had.

Gaara was talking about Kimimaro's bloodline ability right before he brought up chakra levels. It stands to reason he was talking about Kimimaro as opposed to himself.

Originally posted by Q99
It had a view slot, and she can circle around paper easily enough too.

Unless he denies himself sight, he's vulnerable.

Unless he is limited to one barrier for whatever reason, he can erect barriers around him.

Provided he's not staring at the attack as it reaches him, he should be fine against cutting attacks.

Originally posted by Q99
*Looks over the attack*

It was pretty big, but it was handled by simply having an attack come from another direction.

Iirc, it was stopped by a bunch of puppets clogging up the vacuum. Don't see Konan's paper working that way.

EDIT: Well, maybe a giant-ass construct like a Tree would.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Naruto Rankings (dadudemon version)

SS
Madara Uchiha (ET body with Rinnegan)
Naruto Uzumaki (Current)
Nagato (Solo ET Form)
Tobi (with: rinnegan, sharingan, 6 paths)
Minato (1 v 1, only)

SS-
Itachi Uchiha (Edo Tensei Body)
Kurama (all chakra, solo)
Madara Uchiha (Rinnegan only)^
Nagato (emaciated 6 Paths Form)
Minato Namikaze

S+
Deva Path (Yahiko/Pain)
Itachi Uchiha (Right before fight with Sasuke)
Izuna Uchiha
Gedo Mazza
Gyuki
Hashirama ^
Jiraiya (Sage Mode while bonded with Ma and Pa)
Killerbee
Madara Uchiha (EMS)^
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha (Complete Susano'o)
Second Mizukage
Third Raikage
Tobi (Sharingan only)^
Yagura

S
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Fū (Jinchuuriki)
Gaara (Kage)
Jiraiya
Han
Kabuto* (Orochimaru Merge Sage)
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Kushina Uzumaki
Manda II
Might Gai (7 Gates)
Mito Uzumaki **
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)*
Orochimaru*
Roshi
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo w/incomplete susano'o)
Tsunade
Utakata
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito Nii

** Unconfirmed abilities but had minor control over a full powered Kurama. Most likely, she was quite powerful due to being an Uzumaki and having sealed Kurama into herself.

S-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Fukasaku
Ginkaku
Hidan
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Konan* (With Prep)
Mangetsu Hōzuki (Swords)
Mei Terumi
Mifune
Might Gai (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shima
Shukaku
Zetsu (Black half or Complete)

*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei, preparing multiple sage-mode charges, or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.

^These characters have high-level Biju control of tailed beasts outside of their bodies.

To be continued...but here are a couple of A+ ninjas before I forget I removed them from the S-Class list:

A+

Shisui Uchiha
Konan

I am considering moving Konan to A after discussing her abilities, at length, with Q99. Q99 has done well to convince me that Konan is quite useless against higher level opponents.

SS rank - I don't understand. How is Nagato more powerful solo? I may have not read that part well enough. I agree with the others though with Naruto about even with Madara. A question though. If Hashirama was more powerful than madara back in the day, and is widely considered to be the most powerful ninja of his time, why isn't he rated at least SS-?

Why would Naruto (Kyuubi mode) be placed a rank lower than Pain 6 paths if he actually defeated Pain 6 paths in Sage mode?

I also think Hiruzen should be rated higher. He did seal away to kages by himself (1 being hashirama even). A feat that the current kages have not been able to accomplish.

Also, Dadudemon, you would be crazy to rate Konan an A. She could defeat several of the S or better ranked Ninja.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea 🙂 I compare it more to her first attack run- in both of those cases it was simply a matter of jutsu selection against the same ability.

Well, I think Tobi took Minato much more seriously when they first started fighting then he did with Konan which allowed her to hurt him intially. After that it was just proper strategy on both Minato and Konan's part to further damage him. the only difference is I think that Minato probably could have killed Tobi had they finished the fight. Although he could have used the same Izanagi trick, who knows.

Originally posted by Q99
She blew off his arm, damaged his masked, and Tobi himself commented that if he hadn't switched quickly they'd have both died. So yes, she did almost mutual-kill an S+ and did as much damage as Minato did to him.

I destroyed this argument of yours already. No need to recycle your argument or I'll just start requoting myself. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Also that blast showed that she can lose 2/3rds of her body and still be fine.

It does not even come close to showing that. Now you're making stuff up because you know I've covered all points.

Originally posted by Q99
And the fact that it's still moving more stuff than Gaara's stand tsunami or Kisame's mobile lake doesn't matter?

You are correct.

And, no, it does not show that she moved more than Gaara.

Kisame's movile lake also is much more massive than the amount she moved. She only split a large area, nothing more. She pulled a massively smaller/weaker version of a Moses.

Originally posted by Q99
It really doesn't matter if it took no chakra- the scale is still huge. The power involved is huge.

So now you're moving the goalposts just to be right, huh?

At least I know you know I'm right and have to make up other things to discuss.

Also, consider that an earth mover only has to move the earth once and it's done. Consider that the size/scale of that massive attack against Geddo Mazza is much larger than the ocean (and much more massive) and then you see my point. Sure, it may take a lot of chakra, but the scale does not always equate to massive amounts of chakra. Some jutsus take a crap ton of chakra but are small(rasenshuriken) some take a whole bunch but are moderate in size (Yamato making a house). And still others seem to use a moderate amount but have huge results like Kitsuchi's sandwich attack.

Lastly, Choji and his father can make themselves huge. Yet, it does not appear to take a large toll on their chakra levels.

Just pointing out the obvious: chakra usage cannot be determined until we have something to gauge it by.

For instance, Minato can spam his S/T jutsu...however, it takes 3 Hokage body guards to pull of the same thing, just once. Now we can say that Minato has huge chakra levels based on that.

Originally posted by Q99
Saying it doesn't take much chakra- which would be odd, big jutsu pretty much always take lots of chakra- is just begging the question. It also doesn't reduce the actual impressiveness of it, holding back an ocean for 10 minutes and subjecting the target to continuous attack.

That wasn't a jutsu, however. That was just recalling a massively prepped attack. 😐

You also did not use "begging the question" properly.

Originally posted by Q99
You're saying 'maybe it didn't take much chakra' as if that makes it non-impressive and non-threatening. If it didn't, then that just means that Konan has the most freakily chakra-efficient jutsu in the series, but can still do large scale S-class jutsu in any case (and that's not even counting the bombs! Just controlling that much stuff at once is S-class).

I fail to see how "we don't really know" equals "maybe it didn't take much chakra". 🙂

And, no, that's not what it means, at all. It could have taken up half of her chakra. We just don't know. We do know that with Yamato, it takes up almost all of his to build a house because he gets immediately tired.

And she can't just do that large scale jutsu whenever she wants. 😐 If this is the real reason you put her in S-Class, you should immediately move her down. You'll never convince me, by the way. Just so you'll know.

Originally posted by Q99
You're acting like the fact that she planned to do something in advance made it not-count as powerful regardless of the power involved.

And you're acting like the fact that she planned to do something on such a large scale counts as making her ultra-powerful. Obviously, one of us is not correct and I'll give you a hint: I'm right.

With prep, a ninja can do just as much if not more than what she did.

Imagine what a true chakra monster like Naruto could do with prep. 😐

Originally posted by Q99
Based on the fact Konan was ready to jump back in, and that we have no reason to believe the oil did anything but make her paper stick together.

And remember the whole 'she can lose 2/3rds of her body and be fine,' thing she demonstrated a bit later. Jiraiya could've squeezed her in half with that hair and Konan would be fine according to her shown feats.

She was ready to give her life for "God", remember? Or did you forget her monologue?

And she can't lose 2/3rds and be okay. You made that up. Jiraiya was ready to kill her but Nagato had to save her.

Spoiler:
At this point, you are definitely the biggest Konan fanboy on the internet. It's a bit laughable, at this point. I don't think you're serious anymore because you weren't like this last time we talked.

Originally posted by Q99
She didn't come close to killing Jiraiya. She did come close to killing Tobi even without her prep move.

No, Tobi injured himself to save her. I covered this already. If you bring it up again, I'll start copy-pasta-ing you. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Heck, Konan's got 'logia' style defense which I know you're ignoring in your rating.

I am because she doesn't. 🙂

Originally posted by socool8520
SS rank - I don't understand. How is Nagato more powerful solo? I may have not read that part well enough. I agree with the others though with Naruto about even with Madara.

Nartuo said so. Of all people, Naruto and Jiraiya (dead, now) are the only ones that have the knowledge to make such statements.

Nagato is also in ET form meaning he is immortal. So, at this point, not only is he stronger/deadlier (because he absorbed chakra and got all of his vitality back), but he is indestructible.

Originally posted by socool8520
A question though. If Hashirama was more powerful than madara back in the day, and is widely considered to be the most powerful ninja of his time, why isn't he rated at least SS-?

Notice that I rated Madara 3 times: Sharingan only, Rinnegan only, and ET+Rinnegan+Senju cell form.

Hashirama and Madara were about even with Hashirama getting the edge over Madara...BEFORE Madara unlocked his Rinnegan.

However, after Rinnegan, I would say Madara wins, with problems.

Originally posted by socool8520
Why would Naruto (Kyuubi mode) be placed a rank lower than Pain 6 paths if he actually defeated Pain 6 paths in Sage mode?

Actually, Naruto lost to the 6 paths, remember? It was 1 v 1 with Deva path that he technically won against. Also, Nagato is just barely stronger than the strongest S+ class ninjas: this is why he is a SS-.

Originally posted by socool8520
I also think Hiruzen should be rated higher. He did seal away to kages by himself (1 being hashirama even). A feat that the current kages have not been able to accomplish.

I agree.

I am adjusting him to S+. His prime should be SS-.

I will add both. Thanks.

My next post will include your input.

Naruto Rankings (dadudemon version)

SS
Madara Uchiha (ET body with Rinnegan)
Naruto Uzumaki (Current)
Nagato (Solo ET Form)
Tobi (with: rinnegan, sharingan, 6 paths)
Minato (1 v 1, only)

SS-
Itachi Uchiha (Edo Tensei Body)
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Prime)
Kurama (all chakra, solo)
Madara Uchiha (Rinnegan only)^
Nagato (emaciated 6 Paths Form)
Minato Namikaze

S+
Deva Path (Yahiko/Pain)
Itachi Uchiha (Right before fight with Sasuke)
Izuna Uchiha
Gedo Mazza
Gyuki
Hashirama ^
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Jiraiya (Sage Mode while bonded with Ma and Pa)
Killerbee
Madara Uchiha (EMS)^
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha (Complete Susano'o)
Second Mizukage
Third Raikage
Tobi (Sharingan only)^
Yagura

S
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Fū (Jinchuuriki)
Gaara (Kage)
Jiraiya
Han
Kabuto* (Orochimaru Merge Sage)
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Kushina Uzumaki
Manda II
Might Gai (7 Gates)
Mito Uzumaki **
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)*
Orochimaru*
Roshi
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo w/incomplete susano'o)
Tsunade
Utakata
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito Nii

** Unconfirmed abilities but had minor control over a full powered Kurama. Most likely, she was quite powerful due to being an Uzumaki and having sealed Kurama into herself.

S-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Fukasaku
Ginkaku
Hidan
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Konan* (With Prep)
Mangetsu Hōzuki (Swords)
Mei Terumi
Mifune
Might Gai (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shima
Shukaku
Zetsu (Black half or Complete)

*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei, preparing multiple sage-mode charges, or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.

^These characters have high-level Biju control of tailed beasts outside of their bodies.

A+

Shisui Uchiha
Konan

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nartuo said so. Of all people, Naruto and Jiraiya (dead, now) are the only ones that have the knowledge to make such statements.

Nagato is also in ET form meaning he is immortal. So, at this point, not only is he stronger/deadlier (because he absorbed chakra and got all of his vitality back), but he is indestructible.

Notice that I rated Madara 3 times: Sharingan only, Rinnegan only, and ET+Rinnegan+Senju cell form.

Hashirama and Madara were about even with Hashirama getting the edge over Madara...BEFORE Madara unlocked his Rinnegan.

However, after Rinnegan, I would say Madara wins, with problems.

Actually, Naruto lost to the 6 paths, remember? It was 1 v 1 with Deva path that he technically won against. Also, Nagato is just barely stronger than the strongest S+ class ninjas: this is why he is a SS-.

Point taken with Nagato. He can still be sealed so I think the whole immortal thing doesn't matter. It's essentially the same thing as dying unless you have no one who can seal.

I say Madara only wins after he has Senju DNA in general, not just because of Rinnegan. Rinnegan can be overcome. Someone now having all your jutsus can not I would think.

I guess technically he did lose, but even in Sage mode he was capable of defeating the six paths. had he known about the pain that revives the others in the beginning of the fight things would have went differently. Plus, the deva path is the strongest isn't it?

Glad we could agree on Hiruzen.

Also, I think both Naruto sage mode and Kyuubi mode are one rank too low. He beat the deva path in sage mode, yet the Deva path is rated higher. And if he could do that in sage mode, I know that kyuubi mode would dominate the deva path

(Heck, Konan's got 'logia' style defense which I know you're ignoring in your rating.)

I am because she doesn't.

I have no idea why you think this- it's been shown she can dissolver her body into many loose sheets of paper. Physical attacks are not exactly high on her threat meter, the most they can do is damage individual sheets but damage to individual sheets doesn't even inconvenience her.

It's the repeatedly shown base of most of her other powers.

I mean, yea, if you remove her primary defensive power she'd be a lot lower. Konan'd still have high offense, but she'd be much more vulnerable.... S- to A+ would make sense there. But it's, well, it's something she does all the time.

Like how water-transformation-less Suigetsu would be B+ to maybe A-.

Originally posted by Q99
I have no idea why you think this- it's been shown she can dissolver her body into many loose sheets of paper. Physical attacks are not exactly high on her threat meter, the most they can do is damage individual sheets but damage to individual sheets doesn't even inconvenience her.

It's the repeatedly shown base of most of her other powers.

I mean, yea, if you remove her primary defensive power she'd be a lot lower. Konan'd still have high offense, but she'd be much more vulnerable.... S- to A+ would make sense there. But it's, well, it's something she does all the time.

Like how water-transformation-less Suigetsu would be B+ to maybe A-.

She's definitely an S. If Hidan is an S, than Konan is an S. I honestly think Hidan is the weakest S there is. She does have a decent defense and her offense is unquestioned I would think. I still think it's dumb that water and fire attacks barely slow her down though.

Originally posted by Q99
I have no idea why you think this- it's been shown she can dissolver her body into many loose sheets of paper.

That's not the same as being impervious to attack like you're trying to pass off/wank.

Originally posted by Q99
Physical attacks are not exactly high on her threat meter, the most they can do is damage individual sheets but damage to individual sheets doesn't even inconvenience her.

lol

Any area attack, which includes fireballs, will be devastating to her unless she can prepare for it. A lightning based attack should do more than enough. This is why people like A and Guy are horrible opponents for her. Guy can do plenty of area attacks and A has lightning.

Originally posted by Q99
It's the repeatedly shown base of most of her other powers.

Which you repeatedly exaggerate.

Originally posted by Q99
I mean, yea, if you remove her primary defensive power she'd be a lot lower. Konan'd still have high offense, but she'd be much more vulnerable.... S- to A+ would make sense there. But it's, well, it's something she does all the time.

No, without her prep, she's fairly useless against high-level characters. Most of the people in A+ give a her a run for her money. This is why I cannot justify her being in S.

Originally posted by Q99
Like how water-transformation-less Suigetsu would be B+ to maybe A-.

He is, in my opinion, a better overall fighter than Konan. 😐 Unlike Konan, he is actually more like a Logia user: his element is water.

Edit - Unlike Suigetsu, we have not seen Konan turn to paper when struck with a physical object...especially when she is caught off guard. 🙂

Gai would destroy Konan.

That is all.

That's not the same as being impervious to attack like you're trying to pass off/wank.

It pretty much is. Swords and other piercing and slicing attacks won't do anything to that form. Crushing doesn't. Impact doesn't. Claws don't. Water doesn't (she was actually hit by a water jutsu and all it did was clean her off).

This is a person who can function with their parts separated by a foot from each other, or when in human form, with most of their body gone. What do you call that if not logia-like invulnerable?

Fire damages, lightning damages, pure chakra damages, stuff that can destroy large amounts of paper at once. Even then active defenses can block them.

Any area attack, which includes fireballs, will be devastating to her unless she can prepare for it. A lightning based attack should do more than enough. This is why people like A and Guy are horrible opponents for her. Guy can do plenty of area attacks and A has lightning.

We've seen even if paper form does take major hits, Konan loses body mass but can function just fine and replace it, and she was able to put up a defense rapidly from a point-blank fireball from a sannin, so that's not saying much.

A's attack would hit... and then having been stabbed through the heart or what have you, well, that's less damage than she self-inflicted with explosives. It's not taking her out. So A does that, she blows up some tags on him, they repeat.

Remember what happens to 90% of ninja when they get hit with those very same attacks no prepared defense: They get pwned.

Gai has two area effect attacks. Morning Peacock and Afternoon Tiger. His two best attacks, both in limited quantity.

Everyone without attacks like that can't effectively hurt her in paper form at all.

Which you repeatedly exaggerate.

Not really. Konan opens a giant chasm in a lake and keeps it open for 10 minutes, manipulating all the paper all that time and filling a large area with attacks.

That's no exaggeration, Konan can manipulate millions of paper at once to attack a foe, shown on-page.

No, without her prep, she's fairly useless against high-level characters.

Almost killed Tobi with a move that didn't require any prep other than deciding to do it.

Without prep, she can still make large amounts of paper to fill areas with cutting attacks, and still has her powerful tags (hers are groups of four instead of single tags like most everyone else, I'll note).

Most of the people in A+ give a her a run for her money. This is why I cannot justify her being in S.

Tons of them can't hurt her, ditto many S-s, and she has plenty of offense too.

Only a few A+s can give her a fight, and those are ones that would put up a fight against most higher level opponents, like Gai.

He is, in my opinion, a better overall fighter than Konan.

Konan's got much better offense, better mobility, and better utility.

Unlike Konan, he is actually more like a Logia user: his element is water.

And her paper may not technically be an element but the effect is similar- stuff doesn't work on her.

Heck, he has a wider weakness- one of the five ninja elemental releases, as opposed to oil which only Jiraiya and Gamabunta use on the entire list.

Edit - Unlike Suigetsu, we have not seen Konan turn to paper when struck with a physical object...especially when she is caught off guard.

We do know that her paper form is on constantly unless she runs out of chakra.

The attack that struck her off guard was one that specifically stuck her paper form together. Like hitting Crocodile with water.

Originally posted by Q99
It pretty much is. Swords and other piercing and slicing attacks won't do anything to that form. Crushing doesn't. Impact doesn't. Claws don't. Water doesn't (she was actually hit by a water jutsu and all it did was clean her off).

It pretty much isn't. All of those types of attacks will work against her. She consistently solidifies herself and pulls herself apart. You are literally giving her too much credit. She's not as awesome as you make her.

Originally posted by Q99
This is a person who can function with their parts separated by a foot from each other, or when in human form, with most of their body gone. What do you call that if not logia-like invulnerable?

Because, unlike a Logia User, she can be harmed, physically, with standard attacks.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/14.html

That clearly shows her having the ability to use her paper abilities after she supposedly ran out of chakra. Did she actually run out of chakra? NOPE! 😄

Why would you gimp her like that? She just said she did not realize she would use that much chakra. Also, she clearly is vulnerable to physical attacks. A 4.5 in speed is more than enough to avoid her attacks (without prep). So anyone with a 4.5 or better will be able to execute a war of attrition against her. It is only a matter of time before they can deal a killing blow. Minato, the highest 5 in speed, ran circles around Tobi, almost literally. Tobi was faster than Konan on 3 separate occasions: saving himself and her from her planned suicide bomb, popping up behind her after her mass detonation attack, and blitzing/porting near her when she was prepping her paper rasenshuriken. Jiraiya avoided all attacks from her and he is a 4.5. Therefore, anyone with a speed level of 4.5 will be able to avoid her attacks AND get a killing strike against her.

Now wait a minute...did I not make this same argument, already? That's, right: I did.

Originally posted by Q99
Fire damages, lightning damages, pure chakra damages, stuff that can destroy large amounts of paper at once. Even then active defenses can block them.

Sure, they can destroy that paper, but they can certainly destroy her, as well. The attack only has to be on her person, not her defensive paper. Jiraiya proved that when she used up her defensive paper and left herself wide open for his oil attack: he had to have a clear a path to her person. I will admit that one has to be fast enough to do that, though. Not everyone in A+ is fast enough. But a 4.5 is at that point. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
We've seen even if paper form does take major hits, Konan loses body mass but can function just fine and replace it, and she was able to put up a defense rapidly from a point-blank fireball from a sannin, so that's not saying much.

Again, it was not a point blank attack. Notice I keep saying "nearly point blank" when referring to Jiraiya's attack.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c371/15.html

Originally posted by Q99
A's attack would hit... and then having been stabbed through the heart or what have you, well, that's less damage than she self-inflicted with explosives. It's not taking her out. So A does that, she blows up some tags on him, they repeat.

I would not say that she was stabbed through the heart. But, we both know A would kill her absurdly fast. Not to mention, he could shock her with lightning. It would be kind of hard to do anything with her paper when she is being shocked with lightning?

Anyone with decent lightning abilities would be a bane to her. She creates an arch with all that paper for the electricity to hop.

Also, she doesn't blow up any tags on A. A is almost as fast as Minato. What is more likely to happen is A grabs the tag and puts it on her as she is in the middle of detonating it. She ends up killing herself. But, that's a more realistic scenario: something you'd never admit.

Originally posted by Q99
Remember what happens to 90% of ninja when they get hit with those very same attacks no prepared defense: They get pwned.

I remember what happens to fodder who are not nearly a 4.5 in speed. I also approach the topic objectively instead of lauding Konan's massive prep.

Originally posted by Q99
Gai has two area effect attacks. Morning Peacock and Afternoon Tiger. His two best attacks, both in limited quantity.

I do not think he has to resort to any of those to destroy Konan completely and utterly. 🙂 He does not have to go gates, at all, against someone like Konan. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Everyone without attacks like that can't effectively hurt her in paper form at all.

Sure, if you pretend Konan has abilities that she doesn't.

Originally posted by Q99
Not really. Konan opens a giant chasm in a lake and keeps it open for 10 minutes, manipulating all the paper all that time and filling a large area with attacks.

The exaggeration is not the fact that she recalled a prepared jutsu. The above is a strawman reply.

Originally posted by Q99
That's no exaggeration, Konan can manipulate millions of paper at once to attack a foe, shown on-page.

Incorrect. 600 billion. Keep in mind that you like to remind me to "go back and read" about her abilities.

Originally posted by Q99
Almost killed Tobi with a move that didn't require any prep other than deciding to do it.

Covered this already. It was prep according to Tobi. Tobi also would not have been harmed had he not had to reach out and also capture her to save her from her suicide bomb. Do not ignore on panel evidence to fit your agenda of Konan wank. That's bad form.

Originally posted by Q99
Without prep, she can still make large amounts of paper to fill areas with cutting attacks, and still has her powerful tags (hers are groups of four instead of single tags like most everyone else, I'll note).

She makes paper, yes, but it is nowhere near "large amounts".

And against high-level opponents, her "large amounts" of paper, assuming she did not get tons of time to prep, she is nothing. That's exactly what I said, already, however.

Let's point out that she, in her semi-paper form, took a blast to her person and it stayed on her person. She tanked it, for sure, but that definitely destroys the false idea that she is like a Logia user.

Originally posted by Q99
Tons of them can't hurt her, ditto many S-s, and she has plenty of offense too.

That's only true if you falsely believe she is like a Logia user. Fact: even in her semi-paper form, she is tangible as proof of the fireball hitting her person.

Originally posted by Q99
Only a few A+s can give her a fight, and those are ones that would put up a fight against most higher level opponents, like Gai.

No, the majority can give her a fight. I already listed the ones that could. You did not give a proper response becaue the majority of your replies count on her being like a "Logia User" when she has not shown to be impervious to any physical attacks.

Originally posted by Q99
Konan's got much better offense, better mobility, and better utility.

She has a wider area offense, he has a far better defense (he's actually like a Logia user, unlike Konan), is slower than Suigetsu, but definitely has a wider range of offensive attacks than Suigetsu. However, unlike Konan, he can stack up against multiple high level opponents and survive. 🙂 He's a better overall ninja/warrior than she is.

Originally posted by Q99
And her paper may not technically be an element but the effect is similar- stuff doesn't work on her.

No, it seems to work on her just fine. Need I remind you that most of the paper she had in front of her, when she was going to attack Jiraiya with the spear, was vaped from his fire attack, the fireball rested on her person where she probably barely escaped getting raped (had she not had all of that paper in front of her, she would have been burned, badly, and the fight would have been over...me thinks Jiraiya was counting on her surviving so he could ask more questions...in fact, that was his entire MO, the whole time as that's exactly what he ended up doing because he could have easily killed her). Also, let's not forget a certain stabby stab from Tobi. Let's also not forget a certain oil based attack reaching her person when she used up all of her "defensive" paper for paper shurikens. Notice a pattern? If she uses up her "front" paper, she's wide open for physical harm from faster characters.

Originally posted by Q99
Heck, he has a wider weakness- one of the five ninja elemental releases, as opposed to oil which only Jiraiya and Gamabunta use on the entire list.

And the list of high-level people that can use lightning can also defeat Konan. This is why Suigetsu is in A+. 🙂
Konan has a weakness to decent speedsters: 4.5 and up. Notice I am not injecting my own ideas about her weaknesses and strengths? Notice that I stick to on panel evidence.