The Official Naruto series Thread

Started by dadudemon1,600 pages
Originally posted by Q99
We do know that her paper form is on constantly unless she runs out of chakra.

Whew. Good thing she hasn't run out of chakra or else you might be right about one single thing you have discussed.

Originally posted by Q99
The attack that struck her off guard was one that specifically stuck her paper form together. Like hitting Crocodile with water.

No, I was referring to her being stabbed by Tobi when she clearly had more chakra left for what seemed like another high-level attack.

Also, unless she stays in a pure paper form, she makes herself vulnerable to physical attack.

Originally posted by socool8520
She's definitely an S. If Hidan is an S, than Konan is an S. I honestly think Hidan is the weakest S there is. She does have a decent defense and her offense is unquestioned I would think. I still think it's dumb that water and fire attacks barely slow her down though.

Hidan has the problem of being one of the best Taijutsu specialists in Akatsuki. He is also immortal.

Fire attacks did slow her down, though. It destroyed all of her "free-floating" paper and gave Jiraiya a bit of time to talk to her. Any decent Uchiha could make her pitiable in a fight: they just have to spam that big ass fireball.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Whew. Good thing she hasn't run out of chakra or else you might be right about one single thing you have discussed.

No, I was referring to her being stabbed by Tobi when she clearly had more chakra left for what seemed like another high-level attack.

Uh, she mentioned right before that, that she was so low on chakra after doing the paper-ocean thing that she could no longer maintain her paper form.

(Accompanied by her paper flower falling apart for dramatic effect)

Thus telling us that (1) she had it on the whole fight, and (2) it was off when Tobi jumped in to gank her.


Also, unless she stays in a pure paper form, she makes herself vulnerable to physical attack.

True. But she keeps it on just-in-case even during her attack on Tobi which lasted ten minutes. That says something about how often Konan drops it.

Originally posted by Q99
Uh, she mentioned right before that, that she was so low on chakra after doing the paper-ocean thing that she could no longer maintain her paper form.

(Accompanied by her paper flower falling apart for dramatic effect)

Thus telling us that (1) she had it on the whole fight, and (2) it was off when Tobi jumped in to gank her.

She clearly mentions that her kami no shisha no jutsu was done/finished.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/7.html

She never mentioned her paper form could no longer be maintained. I have no idea where you got this latest idea from but it is clearly wrong. But you dug very deep on the interwebz to find such a translation to fit your incorrect agenda.

Just in case you wanted to know, here is what the kami no shisha no jutsu actually is:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Kami+no+Shisha+no+Jutsu

Lastly, I notice you did not deny that you were incorrect about being out of chakra. So you have tried, by obviously failed, to shift the goal posts on what was being discussed.

I now know that you know that I "have you". There's no way you can wiggle out of this. All points of yours have been clearly and decisively addressed on this end. The only left is a red herring argument, on your part, that comes off as being overtly dishonest. I do not know if you intended to come off that dishonest (did you really think I was that stupid?), but it does not look very good from this end.

Pause, take a break, ignore the topic, etc. Come back with a clear head before replying to this topic. I don't like this version of Q99. I know you're much better/smarter than this.

Originally posted by Q99
True. But she keeps it on just-in-case even during her attack on Tobi which lasted ten minutes. That says something about how often Konan drops it.

No, I am not talking about that. I am talking about when she is a pure cloud of paper. If her person is even partially formed, she is tangible and able to be affected by physical attacks.

Also, she has a massive weakness while in her paper cloud form: she can be destroyed quite easily. If all of her paper is destroyed, she is destroyed, while in that form.

No but seriously, Gai would crush Konan and every single character in S- tier.

I demand he be bumped up to S.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No but seriously, Gai would crush Konan and every single character in S- tier.

I demand he be bumped up to S.

I had an S ranking for Gai. But, I have amended further.

Naruto Rankings (dadudemon version)

SS
Madara Uchiha (ET body with Rinnegan)
Naruto Uzumaki (Current)
Nagato (Solo ET Form)
Tobi (with: rinnegan, sharingan, 6 paths)
Minato (1 v 1, only)

SS-
Itachi Uchiha (Edo Tensei Body)
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Prime)
Kurama (all chakra, solo)
Madara Uchiha (Rinnegan only)^
Nagato (emaciated 6 Paths Form)
Minato Namikaze

S+
Deva Path (Yahiko/Pain)
Itachi Uchiha (Right before fight with Sasuke)
Izuna Uchiha
Gedo Mazza
Gyuki
Hashirama ^
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Jiraiya (Sage Mode while bonded with Ma and Pa)
Killerbee
Madara Uchiha (EMS)^
Might Gai (7 Gates)
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha (Complete Susano'o)
Second Mizukage
Third Raikage
Tobi (Sharingan only)^
Yagura

S
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Fū (Jinchuuriki)
Gaara (Kage)
Jiraiya
Han
Kabuto* (Orochimaru Merge Sage)
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Kushina Uzumaki
Manda II
Might Gai (part 2)
Mito Uzumaki **
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)*
Orochimaru*
Roshi
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo w/incomplete susano'o)
Tsunade
Utakata
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito Nii

** Unconfirmed abilities but had minor control over a full powered Kurama. Most likely, she was quite powerful due to being an Uzumaki and having sealed Kurama into herself.

S-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Fukasaku
Ginkaku
Hidan
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Konan* (With Prep)
Mangetsu Hōzuki (Swords)
Mei Terumi
Mifune
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shima
Shukaku
Zetsu (Black half or Complete)

*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei, preparing multiple sage-mode charges, or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.

^These characters have high-level Biju control of tailed beasts outside of their bodies.

A+

Shisui Uchiha
Konan

Nigga I don't give a damn about your list.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nigga I don't give a damn about your list.

Lies. You do. You crave it like a priest craves alter boys.

That priest will have to wait until I finish, *****.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That priest will have to wait until I finish, *****.

fear

*hides kids and wife*

NEME'S GOT A PRESENT FOR YA

reported for sexism


She never mentioned her paper form could no longer be maintained. I have no idea where you got this latest idea from but it is clearly wrong. But you dug very deep on the interwebz to find such a translation to fit your incorrect agenda.

The paper angel technique your translation mentions? That is her paper form technique- you know, the one she uses to look like an angel. Your translation is saying the exact same thing.

And note the paper she's wearing falling apart- visually showing it's her own paper affected.


Just in case you wanted to know, here is what the kami no shisha no jutsu actually is:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Kami+no+Shisha+no+Jutsu

Hey, go to that wikia page it points to for a second.

First thing on the header?

"Warning: This article or section may contain false information. There is little or no citation on this information and its validity cannot be vouched for."

Go to the talk page for elaboration:
"Which info is false ? It seems correct to my knowledge. --speysider (talk) 16:15, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

In the chapter the paper ocean thing was used, Konan talked about how her "Paper Person of God" technique was dissipating because of her having used too much chakra. However, she never specifically mentioned the paper ocean thing to be that technique. Therefore, the assumption that she was referring to this technique can be regarded as false info.--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 16:33, March 9, 2012 (UTC)"

"I'm not entirely sure if she's talking about this technique. She says her 'Paper Angel technique' wore off due to using so much chakra, but note that she's no longer turning into paper either. ZeroSD (talk) 22:06, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

I thought it was perfectly clear that the Paper Angel technique (shouldn't that be Kami Tenchi?) was the technique she used to turn herself into paper and fly, like the way she appeared before Jiraiya. She stated that that technique wore off as the paper fell of her. The (Exploding) Paper Abyss on the other hand simply completed.Rayfire (talk) 00:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)"

"I'd say the names match the abilities pretty well, actually. The Paper Angel Technique, in my opinion, is not the giant chasm of paper Konan created. I think it refers either to her ability to turn herself (and other things) into paper, or her ability to control that paper. When Konan mentioned her technique was cancelling, her hair ornament and all the other paper flowers started to fall apart. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 11:46, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
I thought that was Dance of the Shikigami? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
Dance is likely her paper creation/control while Angel is specifically the transformation. It is telling that she doesn't say she runs out of bombs, she says she runs out of chakra to sustain Paper Angel. Considering her transformation actually gives her angel wings, I do think that's what she was referring to.ZeroSD (talk) 02:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)"

"The later point, that it just died for some reason and no one ever cared seems the more likely. That doesn't really make it right tough. She was refered to as the angel of god/pain and clearly made of paper with the wings. So paper angel of god tech seems to very specifically refer to that, and the point about the flower falling apart when she said she didn't have enough chakra to use it anymore, seems to really drive it home. 98.71.122.74 (talk) 20:32, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah"

The Paper ocean technique was never specifically referred to by name, and there's a visual link between her thought bubble and her own paper, so there's wide consensus that it's her transformation that is turned off. Even the Naruto wikia people are treating the name as an incorrect placeholder, including mods like ShounenSuki.

And there is the matter that when she does use it, she is defended against so many attacks in any case.

Originally posted by Q99
The paper angel technique your translation mentions? That is her paper form technique- you know, the one she uses to look like an angel. Your translation is saying the exact same thing.

And note the paper she's wearing falling apart- visually showing it's her own paper affected.

Hey, go to that wikia page it points to for a second.

First thing on the header?

"Warning: This article or section may contain false information. There is little or no citation on this information and its validity cannot be vouched for."

Go to the talk page for elaboration:
"Which info is false ? It seems correct to my knowledge. --speysider (talk) 16:15, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

In the chapter the paper ocean thing was used, Konan talked about how her "Paper Person of God" technique was dissipating because of her having used too much chakra. [b]However, she never specifically mentioned the paper ocean thing to be that technique. Therefore, the assumption that she was referring to this technique can be regarded as false info.--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 16:33, March 9, 2012 (UTC)"

"I'm not entirely sure if she's talking about this technique. She says her 'Paper Angel technique' wore off due to using so much chakra, but note that she's no longer turning into paper either. ZeroSD (talk) 22:06, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

I thought it was perfectly clear that the Paper Angel technique (shouldn't that be Kami Tenchi?) was the technique she used to turn herself into paper and fly, like the way she appeared before Jiraiya. She stated that that technique wore off as the paper fell of her. The (Exploding) Paper Abyss on the other hand simply completed.Rayfire (talk) 00:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)"

"I'd say the names match the abilities pretty well, actually. The Paper Angel Technique, in my opinion, is not the giant chasm of paper Konan created. I think it refers either to her ability to turn herself (and other things) into paper, or her ability to control that paper. When Konan mentioned her technique was cancelling, her hair ornament and all the other paper flowers started to fall apart. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 11:46, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
I thought that was Dance of the Shikigami? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
Dance is likely her paper creation/control while Angel is specifically the transformation. It is telling that she doesn't say she runs out of bombs, she says she runs out of chakra to sustain Paper Angel. Considering her transformation actually gives her angel wings, I do think that's what she was referring to.ZeroSD (talk) 02:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)"

"The later point, that it just died for some reason and no one ever cared seems the more likely. That doesn't really make it right tough. She was refered to as the angel of god/pain and clearly made of paper with the wings. So paper angel of god tech seems to very specifically refer to that, and the point about the flower falling apart when she said she didn't have enough chakra to use it anymore, seems to really drive it home. 98.71.122.74 (talk) 20:32, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah"

The Paper ocean technique was never specifically referred to by name, and there's a visual link between her thought bubble and her own paper, so there's wide consensus that it's her transformation that is turned off. Even the Naruto wikia people are treating the name as an incorrect placeholder, including mods like ShounenSuki.

And there is the matter that when she does use it, she is defended against so many attacks in any case. [/B]

Sorry, you're wrong. 🙂

That's not a correct translation, as well.

kami no shisha no jutsu is the jutsu she used against Tobi in the lake. The translation for that is "paper person of god technique" or "God's art of paper" OR..."God's Paper Art" depending on how well you want to translate it into English.

I apologize that you have been participating in baseless speculation. Paper Angel Technique is an entirely different translation. Her paper form is called Shikigami no Mai. This is backed up in databook 3 where a section under Shikigami no Mai, shows her turning her body into paper and wrapping up the

Under the section for Shikigami no Mai, in the 3rd databook (page 264):

"By converting one's own body into countless small pieces of paper, they can move freely and have the ability to change form! It has many uses from reconnaissance to surprise attacks. Furthermore, the magical way the countless pieces of paper dance in mid-air, changing shape, gives them a fascinating charm."

The fact that it was translated to "Paper Angel Technique" which many speculated was her literal paper angel form (where she literally makes angel wings) is also false. She never once assumed that form against Tobi. You're riding on the coat-tails on a mistranslation perpetuated by a couple of translators.

Again, I find your use of this particular argument dishonest. Not only did you quote very old speculation in the talk page, you failed to quote the sections where people quite handily settled the discussion.

Here are some things that you had to go out of your way to do that were dishonest on your part:

1. You used an incorrect translation specifically to fit your agenda. It's not the "Paper Angel Technique". It is "kami no shisha no jutsu", Paper Person of God Technique, Paper technique (executed by a person) of God, or Paper God Technique.

2. You used old "talk" sections on a wiki that supported your agenda but failed to include the later talk to clearly resolved* the discussion. You definitely had to go out of your way because there's no way you missed the sections that resolved the problem/debate.

3. The results on the google search show many different locations on the internet that show the conclusion of that technique being the massive lake splitter attack against Tobi.

4. Ignore the intro headers for the chapter, which you have read recently multiple times:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/

*Before you say it, the discussion is resolved. However, mods are still weary because they themselves had supported the old translation so they want a 4th databook to resolve the supposed debate. However, there is no debate and it is only their ego that prevents them from removing the header on the page.

GAI SHOULD BE S RANK. 😠

He is faster than everyone in S-, a better fighter, and with Afternoon Tiger he could one-shot most of the tier.

Gai in the same tier as Kushina... 😂

Who is Han again?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Gai in the same tier as Kushina... 😂
you have to factor in her resistance to pain during childbirth

Okay I actually laughed at that.

Goddammit PG.


1. You used an incorrect translation specifically to fit your agenda. It's not the "Paper Angel Technique". It is "kami no shisha no jutsu", Paper Person of God Technique, Paper technique (executed by a person) of God, or Paper God Technique.

Yea, the precise translation isn't the point here. Paper person of god, paper god... all pretty angelic, and talking about her person, rather than a chasm.

My point has nothing to do with the phrasing (also, I think you're too wrapped up into seeing it as an 'agenda'. It's just how I, and the other people here, and the people at Naruto Wikia, see events).

Also note that there is a visual event indicating it's happening with paper on her person- this is not based purely on wording or anything.


2. You used old "talk" sections on a wiki that supported your agenda but failed to include the later talk to clearly resolved* the discussion. You definitely had to go out of your way because there's no way you missed the sections that resolved the problem/debate.

The latest posts were from March and May (i.e. this month) of this year. Check the dates.

And the mods decided to put up the banner. I.e. they resolved that that is not an accurate name.

The people there think that's when she couldn't maintain her paper jutsu. The people here think she's paper most of the time too. The only one who disagrees seems to be you.


3. The results on the google search show many different locations on the internet that show the conclusion of that technique being the massive lake splitter attack against Tobi.

It has people going along with using it as a name, but that's not the same thing.


4. Ignore the intro headers for the chapter, which you have read recently multiple times:

Uh, the intro header of the chapter you just link doesn't even use the name.

Also let me point out additional evidence she spends most of the fight in paper mode: Most of the fight, she's not operating with a full body and has sections that are clearly paper!

Heck, regardless of the wording used, would it not stand to reason that if she's out of chakra to do one jutsu and drops it, that she would also drop other jutsu she was maintaining?

Nemebro
GAI SHOULD BE S RANK.

He is faster than everyone in S-, a better fighter, and with Afternoon Tiger he could one-shot most of the tier.

You know what? I think I agree. The only reason he's at A+ (pre-skip) and S- (post) is he's supposed to be Kakashi's rival, and that's where Kakashi is. S- and S would make a lot of sense based on actual shown capabilities.