Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Gai in the same tier as Kushina... 😂
7 gates Gai is rated higher although I see your point. We can't really put her in any category since all we have seen from her is sealing/binding techniques. She really has no great feat except durability since she is the only person we know of to survive being separated from a bijuu. They should really do a back story with her using jutsus. I'd honestly like to see that for several characters such as Minato ( I mean he has to know more techniques than rasengan and teleportation), Hiruzen, Hashirama, Jiraiya, Orochimaru, etc.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yay! Guy gets bumped up.And the Rock Lee spinoff is basically making LeeXTenten canon. She is willing to dress as a cheerleader for Lee and even offers him a massage.
It's so cute. :3
I actually really like Gai. He would be near unstoppable if he learned more ninjutsu.
Originally posted by socool8520
7 gates Gai is rated higher although I see your point. We can't really put her in any category since all we have seen from her is sealing/binding techniques.
Mind you, that binding is enough to hold down the fox, and works on non-biju (Tobi used the move on Naruto. As a barrier, it kept Hiruzen out). The first while near-dead.
Kushina also has the strength feat of stopping the fox's paw from stabbing Naruto with muscle.
Kushina's had two on-screen fights. Both with the fox, but that's not an unimpressive foe.
As a jinchuuriki, she'd also have all standard jinchuuriki powers.
Originally posted by Q99You know what? I think I agree. The only reason he's at A+ (pre-skip) and S- (post) is he's supposed to be Kakashi's rival, and that's where Kakashi is. S- and S would make a lot of sense based on actual shown capabilities.
I believe I asked for Gai to be higher than S- based on his stupidly high stats when in Gates Mode, as well as his Morning Peacock & Afternoon Tiger attack, and you disagreed, as you felt the Gates were a double-edged sword if they failed.
Yet you agree with Nemebro without any argument.
I suspect Nemebro's willingness to loan his ass and stuff has had something to do with this. sneer
Originally posted by socool8520
I actually really like Gai. He would be near unstoppable if he learned more ninjutsu.
Imagine Gai with a Mangekyou Sharingan.
And heck, imagine current Kakashi as a Jinchuurikii.
awesome
Originally posted by Q99
Mind you, that binding is enough to hold down the fox, and works on non-biju (Tobi used the move on Naruto. As a barrier, it kept Hiruzen out). The first while near-dead.Kushina also has the strength feat of stopping the fox's paw from stabbing Naruto with muscle.
Kushina's had two on-screen fights. Both with the fox, but that's not an unimpressive foe.
As a jinchuuriki, she'd also have all standard jinchuuriki powers.
Wasn't minato also helping stop the Paw? And if the binding techniques are all we have to go off of, that still isn't enough versatility to say she could defeat most S class people. She would basically be Sakura with a binding technique and no medical skills. And I am not on the Sakura band wagon.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I believe I asked for Gai to be higher than S- based on his stupidly high stats when in Gates Mode, as well as his Morning Peacock & Afternoon Tiger attack, and you disagreed, as you felt the Gates were a double-edged sword if they failed.
Yet you agree with Nemebro without any argument.I suspect Nemebro's willingness to loan his ass and stuff has had something to do with this. sneer
Imagine Gai with a Mangekyou Sharingan.
And heck, imagine current Kakashi as a Jinchuurikii.
awesome
The gates failing argument is ridiculous. when has he ever failed when using the gates? Kisame gave Bee a run for his money and yet Gai handled him soundly in his 7 gates mode. His S+ ranking is well deserved.
Gai with the sharingan would be pretty much be the strongest person in the manga.
I think he would even handle a jinchuuriki Kakashi.
Guy's long range attacks are merely advanced taijutsu, weapons tend to fall under taijutsu as well. He has a summon and he is a master at taijutsu, second only to perhaps the 3rd Raikage's nintaijutsu.
Kushina has seals, barriers, and dem chains.
In terms of who is more versatile, Kushina does edge him out. Not to mention having a living nuke inside her doesn't hurt.
Course, I never understood the idea of ranking Kushina low anyway. All the other Jinchuriki, who by the way are never implied to have had the same mastery as say Bee(Yagura excluded but he is an interesting case) are all at the very least S- or S. Kushina possess hands down the most powerful beast inside her along with some nifty techs. Sure, few appearances leave her wanting feats but the ones she has are hardly bad and at least an S- can be reasonably inferred. S seems fine.
Edit: And of course it's not contest in your opinion. But in your opinion, Guy with Sharingan would be the most powerful character in the series, which is lulzily untrue.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, the precise translation isn't the point here.
It is.
Originally posted by Q99
My point has nothing to do with the phrasing (also, I think you're too wrapped up into seeing it as an 'agenda'. It's just how I, and the other people here, and the people at Naruto Wikia, see events).
Correction: saw.
And it is a dishonest agenda on your part.
Originally posted by Q99
The latest posts were from March and May (i.e. this month) of this year. Check the dates.
No, you should check the dates and the arguments that match those dates. The arguments the decisively resolve the discussions occur after the arguments you posted. That's very dishonest of you to now use another angle, out of context, to what I referred.
As of the latest, there were two arguments made in support of the old interpretation and both were addressed already before they made them(go back and read it):
1. That the forbidden jutsu refers to Izanagi instead of her kami no shisha no jutsu. Addressed because the opening chapter lines clarify that it refers to her technique.
2. That the paper angel technique refers to her ability to turn into paper when that argument had been destroyed for almost a year, by that point.
Originally posted by Q99
And the mods decided to put up the banner. I.e. they resolved that that is not an accurate name.
No, they have had it in "false information" possible status for over a year, now, despite the discussion being decisively closed. It is only a couple of people, like you, that hold on to the old interpretation which started/spawned from a mistranslation many moons back.
I guarantee you that this argument would have never surfaced had they translated it properly instead of putting their own spin on the translation.
Originally posted by Q99
The people there think that's when she couldn't maintain her paper jutsu. The people here think she's paper most of the time too. The only one who disagrees seems to be you.
And those people are clearly wrong. The only one that seems to agree with them is you and a couple of other people that frequent that wiki. Like, literally. I showed you google search and all the Naruto related websites have the same description as the one I am referring to. You are in the extreme minority and you are also explicitly wrong according to Naruto Databook III, as I clearly pointed out.
Originally posted by Q99
It has people going along with using it as a name, but that's not the same thing.
No, what I said. 😬
"3. The results on the google search show many different locations on the internet that show the conclusion of that technique being the massive lake splitter attack against Tobi."
Not anything else. What I said. I literally could not find a description of that jutsu, anywhere, that shows your interpretation. Here's why: databook III already decided that what you are wanting to call it is actually Shikigami no Mai.
Originally posted by Q99
Uh, the intro header of the chapter you just link doesn't even use the name.
Uh, that's not the point at all. 😬 The into to the chapter indicates she is using a forbidden jutsu...and it's hers.
Originally posted by Q99
Also let me point out
Okay, I'm "listening"...
Originally posted by Q99
additional evidence she spends most of the fight in paper mode: Most of the fight, she's not operating with a full body and has sections that are clearly paper!
You clearly indicate, here, that she doesn't spend the entire fight, in paper form. You already left room out of your own argument while making it. That's not even a well-formed though. "She spends most of her time using the Shikigami no Mai jutsu!" That also means that she sometimes didn't spend time using the Shikigami no Mai jutsu. What has been my argument? She only needs to be in a partial paper form to be tangibly affected by jutsus as seen by the fireball that exploded on her person and destroyed almost all the spare paper she had in front of her.
Originally posted by Q99
Heck, regardless of the wording used, would it not stand to reason that if she's out of chakra to do one jutsu and drops it, that she would also drop other jutsu she was maintaining?
No...this and always this is what it is about:
"...out of chakra..."
and
"[size]...logia intangibility...[/size]"
When neither of those are true.
You were wrong on both accounts. She still had chakra and she is not "logia intangible".
How much more clear does it need to be that you were wrong?
PLEASE...I beg you....please please please admit you were wrong and being overly zealous with those statements. There's no need to drag this out and show why you are wrong, anymore. It takes every fiber in my being to resist saying rude things when it is too obvious that you're wrong. 🙁 You don't know how hard it has been to try and be nice. I have to consistently edit my replies so that they leave out the snarky comments. It's very hard for me not to be smug when I am clearly right. pained
Originally posted by socool8520
The gates failing argument is ridiculous. when has he ever failed when using the gates? Kisame gave Bee a run for his money and yet Gai handled him soundly in his 7 gates mode. His S+ ranking is well deserved.Gai with the sharingan would be pretty much be the strongest person in the manga.
I think he would even handle a jinchuuriki Kakashi.
My bad, poor choice of words there. Q99's argument was that the Gates would leave Gai in a debilitated state once they ran out/used them/he turned them off. Though it only happened to Gai when he opened 7 Gates.
Lulz, Kisame didn't give Bee a run for his money. He spanked Bee around and made him look like a chump.
Though that was really due to Samehada being such a broken tool when used against characters that rely on chakra & ninjutsu, like Bee. He did not have Samehada against Gai, a character that relies on stamina and taijutsu. Against someone like Bee, a Samehada using Kisame can vary from S to SS-, simply because he'll always be stronger than that person.
Lawl no. A Sharingan using Gai not be the strongest person in Naruto. Would be stronger than Minato though vin
Jinchuurikii Kakashi would also Kamui Gai's head off.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Guy's long range attacks are merely advanced taijutsu, weapons tend to fall under taijutsu as well. He has a summon and he is a master at taijutsu, second only to perhaps the 3rd Raikage's nintaijutsu.Kushina has seals, barriers, and dem chains.
In terms of who is more versatile, Kushina does edge him out. Not to mention having a living nuke inside her doesn't hurt.
Course, I never understood the idea of ranking Kushina low anyway. All the other Jinchuriki, who by the way are never implied to have had the same mastery as say Bee(Yagura excluded but he is an interesting case) are all at the very least S- or S. Kushina possess hands down the most powerful beast inside her along with some nifty techs. Sure, few appearances leave her wanting feats but the ones she has are hardly bad and at least an S- can be reasonably inferred. S seems fine.
Edit: And of course it's not contest in your opinion. But in your opinion, Guy with Sharingan would be the most powerful character in the series, which is lulzily untrue.
It doesn't matter if the long range attacks are taijutsu, they are still long range, and he has multiple ones. He can counter the sharingan as well. he doesn't use up too much chakra since he doesn't rely on jutsus.
Kushina took a paw to the back, I guess that's impressive from a strength standpoint. i gave her props for durability for surviving a bijuu separation. She bound a bijuu, that's pretty good i guess. Naruto was helping I think. However, she has shown no jutsus at all. no real Taijutsu. So with the lack of showings, I fid it hard to say she can defeat several S ranked people unless you believ that everyone will just stand around and let her bind them. lol
How is Gai with a sharingan being one of the most powerful untrue.
I hope option 1.
It will probably be option 2.
Originally posted by socool8520
It doesn't matter if the long range attacks are taijutsu, they are still long range, and he has multiple ones. He can counter the sharingan as well. he doesn't use up too much chakra since he doesn't rely on jutsus.Kushina took a paw to the back, I guess that's impressive from a strength standpoint. i gave her props for durability for surviving a bijuu separation. She bound a bijuu, that's pretty good i guess. Naruto was helping I think. However, she has shown no jutsus at all. no real Taijutsu. So with the lack of showings, I fid it hard to say she can defeat several S ranked people unless you believ that everyone will just stand around and let her bind them. lol
How is Gai with a sharingan being one of the most powerful untrue.
Kay. Kushina can use her chains to attack from long ranges too I guess. So she still one ups Guy.
In the flashback, Naruto could not help lol. And true, she has few showings and personally I would never use her in a fight, mostly because we know so little on how she would fight. But considering she tied up the Kyuubi in no time, I'd say she is fairly fast with the chains.
Guy never uses ninjutsu(so the copying factor is irrelevant), his mastery of taijutsu is such that keeping up with his opponents taijutsu is really kinda pointless since they can't keep up with him, and he already has methods to avoid genjutsu and get out of them. The sharingan is a worthless tool for someone like Guy lol.
Originally posted by Q99
Uh, only the Paper Angel's several billion tags were said to require prep.
FALSE!
Tobi said her first attack (which resulted in his arm being blown off because he saved himself and her) was prep, as well.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/14.html
"Seems you were planning to explode I swallowed you and take you with me."
How did she know to do that? Oh, right...prep. She had observed Tobi and planned for ages a counter attack/technique to get him. That first prong of her attack plan was this attack. She prepped ANOTHER strategy had that one failed: Kami no shisha no jutsu. That one failed as well.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
My bad, poor choice of words there. Q99's argument was that the Gates would leave Gai in a debilitated state once they ran out/used them/he turned them off. Though it only happened to Gai when he opened 7 Gates.Lulz, Kisame didn't give Bee a run for his money. He spanked Bee around and made him look like a chump.
Though that was really due to Samehada being such a broken tool when used against characters that rely on chakra & ninjutsu, like Bee. He did not have Samehada against Gai, a character that relies on stamina and taijutsu. Against someone like Bee, a Samehada using Kisame can vary from S to SS-, simply because he'll always be stronger than that person.Lawl no. A Sharingan using Gai not be the strongest person in Naruto. Would be stronger than Minato though vin
Jinchuurikii Kakashi would also Kamui Gai's head off.
I was being nice with the bee fight cuz i like hime, but fine, yes he got whooped. When i said he would PRETTY much be the strongest, I didn't mean uncontested. I guess one of the strongest would have been better. However, He already has great Taijutsu which is out of most peoples league, and then you add the ability to basically be Kakashi or Sasuke as well, pretty much making him fully well rounded in every facet there is, how do you figure he would not be one of the strongest?