The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Zack Fair
If Orochimaru came out...could he somehow posses Itachi? I'd like to see what Orochimaru would do if he ever got a sharingan.

If Sasuke could pull out the W without most of his amazing eye tricks, Itachi could do it easily. I would actually prefer Oro without sharingan. If he had it, it would just be more lame fights like this one. Him taking over kabuto's body would be sweet though.

Originally posted by socool8520
But doesn't he have to actually know the hand seals? It would seem that only 3 people have ever known it, 2 of them are dead.

I thought about that after I made my post. You're right. There's no hope unless we can get an Ibiki type of ability going. Surely Itachi is decent at interrogation techniques. They did it to Kisame....me thinks that they have something. Sasuke got information out of that one random dude.

Originally posted by socool8520
I agree. If everything else regens, so should the eyes.

I think that some people will have some sort of apologetic for Kishimoto's goof concerning this. It might even been convincing. But...it's hard for me not to see it as anything but PIS.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I thought about that after I made my post. You're right. There's no hope unless we can get an Ibiki type of ability going. Surely Itachi is decent at interrogation techniques. They did it to Kisame....me thinks that they have something. Sasuke got information out of that one random dude.

Can you break into someone's mind without somehow releasing the genjutsu? I ask because I don't recall how Sasuke actually got info from that person.

I think that some people will have some sort of apologetic for Kishimoto's goof concerning this. It might even been convincing. But...it's hard for me not to see it as anything but PIS.

I'm sure they are apologetic of his man crush on the Uchiha too. I mean seriously, Madara can make several clones and all with susan'o? Not to mention 2 meteors, the spore thing, and a forest. This guy's not even an Uzamaki or Jinchuriiki.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i don't really believe there is start up time: itachi made a "fight recording" to make the loop, so he hit record and fought a bit, then stopped taping when he found a matching frame to close the loop. kabuto is watching this neverending gif in his brain.

Yeah. The recording would be akin to the 'start-up' time I guess.

Kabuto already showed that he could stop Itachi from landing the tech, and this forced Itachi to prep the tech again apparently.

And of course, Izanami is supposed to last a short time.

Originally posted by socool8520
I agree. If everything else regens, so should the eyes.

If you'll notice, his eye is still open, but the Sharingan is gone. Of course, the tech is still active, but it's still a little different from what happened with Tobi and Danzou when they used Izanagi.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah. The recording would be akin to the 'start-up' time I guess.

Kabuto already showed that he could stop Itachi from using the tech, and this forced Itachi to prep the tech again apparently.

If so, that's pretty cool. It's both strong, but at the same time far more limited than Izanagi.

Poor Kabuto, lame way too get beaten. But against Itachi, you kinda just do what he wants you too, and lose.

Konan's paper form argument, working from the ground up with no quote reliance, purely going on visuals:

First, damage resistance! Does Konan's paper form, in fact, give her the ability to shrug off most damage, simply requiring replacement of paper?

Head, shoulders, part of a torso, no arms.

It's simply replaced, no biggie. No signs of feeling injury.

That's after being at the center of a strong explosion and space warp.

Konan also shows her ability to individual flat pieces with no harm.

Note also the flower she formed.

So! That's demonstrated, but that's not the only thing, is it? The next question, arguably the crucial one, is how often is it up? It's great that Konan can turn into paper, but is it something Konan keeps active often, or just on occasion?

At the start of the Jiraiya fight it is, of course, activated. Konan does not even fully form a body before she forms weapons and starts attacking.

Much later in the fight:

Konan still has not even formed legs. Paper form is active.

Pain has tagged in and they've been talking for several minutes, Animal Path restrained by the hair. Konan visibly is in paper form on her face.

(To be continued)

Invasion fight.

Konan takes out her targets, *then* forms a head. Somewhat notable as it implies Konan conducted combat without forming any body.

Vs the Aburame, still in paper form. Half a body for no real reason.

Tobi fight.

At the start of the fight Konan activates it.

Using paper for offense, Konan no longer has a full arm on the next page.

While Konan believes Tobi to be cause in the chasm, it is still activated.

Konan believes the fight over. There's a missing paper slot in her arm and lines on her face, then it goes back and the flower, identical to the one that formed when she turned into butterflies, falls apart. The lines on her face that are consistently there when in paper mode are gone.

Possibly simply due to thinking the battle's over, Konan has deactivated it. Signs of activation have vanished.

Throughout the entire Jiraiya fight, the Invasion battle, and the Tobi fight while he was trapped in the chasm, Konan had it consistently activated and would regularly go around with missing limbs, torso, or in fact even missing a vaguely human body shape.

Also, for fun, here's Konan forming a giant tree hundreds of feet tall:

It was active throughout the entire invasion arc.

and it's deactivation:

While reading that I couldn't help but think "Wow Nagato is such a lame anus I really hate him".

Originally posted by Q99
If so, that's pretty cool. It's both strong, but at the same time far more limited than Izanagi.

Yeah, if Izanami can only be used to create a loop, it'd be pretty annoying to find the exact same 'frame' as the beginning, as opposed to just recording something without needing the end to be the same as the beginning.
That'd be where Izanagi forms the pair with Izanami, protecting one's self by changing one's own destiny until one can create the loop to decide another one's destiny.

Izanami's supposed to have a time limit as well. Still do not know for certain if that applies to the recording time or loop time.

Originally posted by Kento
Poor Kabuto, lame way too get beaten. But against Itachi, you kinda just do what he wants you too, and lose.

Sup bro?

Why does the time limit matter?

Against most opponents Itachi would just need to cut the throat of the immobilised douche he just owned.

The Time limit was a big thing with Izanagi?

I don't get your point.

Shut up and make me a sammich.

Originally posted by Q99
Konan believes the fight over. There's a missing paper slot in her arm and lines on her face, then it goes back and the flower, identical to the one that formed when she turned into butterflies, falls apart. The lines on her face that are consistently there when in paper mode are gone.

Possibly simply due to thinking the battle's over, Konan has deactivated it. Signs of activation have vanished.

she states that the chasm tech took a lot of chackra, and it seems that it took so much that her paper body thing can't be maintained, which is understandable after what she just pulled off.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
or you could just read it and take it at face value.

she states that the chasm tech took a lot of chackra, and it seems that it took so much that her paper body thing can't be maintained, which is understandable after what she just pulled off.

Yea, that too.

You know, she was a pretty cool chick, from her aesthetic to her power-set.

It's a shame that she had to exist in a Kishimoto manga. Wasted potential, like a genius being born in Africa.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah. The recording would be akin to the 'start-up' time I guess.

Kabuto already showed that he could stop Itachi from landing the tech, and this forced Itachi to prep the tech again apparently.

And of course, Izanami is supposed to last a short time.

Really? I thought he said it could last forever. Also, when did the tech start? I think when Kabuto stepped on the feathers is a pretty good estimation as someone posted. Is that the consensus?

If you'll notice, his eye is still open, but the Sharingan is gone. Of course, the tech is still active, but it's still a little different from what happened with Tobi and Danzou when they used Izanagi. [/B]

I see your point. Does that also mean he can still use techs that require both eyes?

Q99, I don't understand what the point is of whether or not Konan keeps paper form all the time or not. Did I miss something? I know there is some debate about Konan's ranking but how does her paper form fit in?

Originally posted by Q99
Konan's paper form argument, working from the ground up with no quote reliance, purely going on visuals:

First, damage resistance! Does Konan's paper form, in fact, give her the ability to shrug off most damage, simply requiring replacement of paper?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/14.html

Head, shoulders, part of a torso, no arms.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/15.html

It's simply replaced, no biggie. No signs of feeling injury.

That's after being at the center of a strong explosion and space warp.

This is a false conclusion with an incorrect setup. She was simply putting herself back together. She was not damaged nor did she tank the blast. Tobi clearly states that he saved her. What you see is her putting herself back together because she took herself apart.

Behold the pages before the blast that clearly show why she is putting herself back together:

Originally posted by Q99
So! That's demonstrated, but that's not the only thing, is it?

Well, since you did not actually prove your point, you did not demonstrate anything other than Tobi saving her, Konan being able to turn into paper, and Konan being able to put herself back together.

Originally posted by Q99
The next question, arguably the crucial one, is how often is it up? It's great that Konan can turn into paper, but is it something Konan keeps active often, or just on occasion?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c371/14.html

That's easy to answer: she does not always keep it up:

Here are examples of when she does not keep it up:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v40/c368/13.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c508/16.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/8.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/9.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/10.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/11.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/12.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c509/13.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/7.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/8.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/10.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/11.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/12.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/13.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/15.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c373/16.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c372/3.html

Originally posted by Q99
At the start of the Jiraiya fight it is, of course, activated. Konan does not even fully form a body before she forms weapons and starts attacking.

Much later in the fight:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c374//

Konan still has not even formed legs. Paper form is active.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c374/10.html

You missed a crucial portion of the scans that shows she is very much tangible...the one I kept pointing you towards:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c371/15.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c371/16.html

The blast destroys almost all of her free-floating paper (virtually destroys her defenses) and the smoke settled around her person. She came dangerously close to being incinerated IF Jiraiya had a more powerful flame attack (like an Uchiha's). But this clearly shows that she is not physically intangible in her partial Dance of the Shikigami form.

Also, much more important is the fact that she is still in "partial paper form" even when Jiraiya has her dosed and held with his hair:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c372/6.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c372/7.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c372/8.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c373/17.html

Lastly, and the most important, it does not matter than she still had not formed legs: her life was in danger and Jiraiya could have taken it.

Remember what my original argument was: as long as she is partially formed, she is tangible and in danger of receiving a killing blow.

Originally posted by Q99
Pain has tagged in and they've been talking for several minutes, Animal Path restrained by the hair. Konan visibly is in paper form on her face.

(To be continued)

Yeah, I kind of made the same point. But you think this helps your case: it's a detriment and one of the most damming points to your perspective on her 'logia-like' form.

I am partially with dadudemon (Partially, because I didn't read his whole post and I have no idea what else we would agree on).

Tobi explicitly notes he saved her from the exploding tags, and Konan explicitly notes that that was intended as a suicide attack.