Originally posted by socool8520
I feel sheepish, but what is this logia intangibility
Logia Users have it.
From One Piece.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Logia
I am the most awesomest nice guy on the internet, ever. It would have taken 3 troll posts from any other poster to give you the answer. 😐
This is a false conclusion with an incorrect setup. She was simply putting herself back together. She was not damaged nor did she tank the blast. Tobi clearly states that he saved her. What you see is her putting herself back together because she took herself apart.
There is burned paper and pieces of her outfit
Yes, Tobi saved her because if he didn't suck in the blast, it would've been enough to burn her away completely.
And before the blast when flying in, she has significantly more torso, as well as a fully formed left arm down to the hand, and not only that, but grows a right-arm and hand when flying in!
Konan creates a cloud around her but does not dissolve into paper like with the butterflies (which, when she does it other times, has her scatter apart in a different manner), and it's the blast/space suck that reduces her to a partial-torso with no limbs state.
We have no idea how she started her assault as we do not see what she does when she approaches them. You are baselessly speculating and as I show, later, you are actually contradicted in some locations.
We know that for at least that moment, she does not have a body while she is at that location.
That's not baseless speculation, that's what's there.
We see that her paper is clearly eaten by the bugs on the previous page:And as we know, even being partially formed in paper makes her tangible.
But only tangible in the sense paper is tangible, just as a fire logia is vulnerable to that which destroys fire.
Stuff like stabs and crushes? Not so much.
Also, the Aburame clan seemed to get out of their fight with her, literally unscathed. Is she really as good as you said she was now that you know that?
Uh, considering there's four members there including a Jonin and Shino, and she's also maintaining that giant tree elsewhere, and she retreats soon after? And as you mention there's a pretty solid chance it's clone?
Yes.
And it retreats because the town's about to be blown up, same reason every Pain body retreats.
Which brings up another point- Konan has pretty powerful clones. Clones are generally noticeably weaker than the main user, and Jonin tend to make short work of even fairly strong clones.
So, let's be clear, here: she defects from "Tobi", Tobi confronts her, and she doesn't go paper-mode until well into the confrontation? It looks like you're ignoring the fact that she was solid well before she intiated her attack.So will you admit that she is not in the form, constantly and is like a Logia User?
So why even debate that point?
... because being in paper for the entirety of combats still means that during the combat she has the defensive benefits.
Yes, if she's attacked outside of combat or when she thinks she's safe, it's not automatic. But once combat begins, if an opponent does not have a way to hurt her when she's in paper form, well, that's a problem, because she's going to be in paper form constantly until the combat is over!
I assume you meant "While Konan believes Tobi to be in the chasm..."She is still partially formed and, therefore, susceptible to attack.
Even the formed part reacts like paper, not flesh.
By 'intangible' I do not mean "attacks literally pass through her like they do Tobi".
I mean "attacks damage some paper, which does no real damage to Konan as she replaces paper. You know, much like a logia."
However, the point you're leading up to doesn't really prove the point you're trying to make as I have shown and you have shown her to be tangible and kill-able even if she is partially formed. That's all it takes is a partial formation of her body.
But when an explosion hit a partially formed body Seen here, missing legs but nothing else, her entire torso and then some is formed, including both arms
She loses paper but does not bleed, and can replenish that paper
The areas hit react like paper and are replenishable.
Also, Konan seems to think Naruto can kill Nagato, even with her there:
Yea, what precisely is she going to do to stop a Rasenshuriken at that range? Or if he Bijus out again?
Nagato's an immobile target. There's very little anyone could do to stop Naruto there.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Both parties are wrong here.
Oh, I agree. Both sides are super wrong.
socool8520
I feel sheepish, but what is this logia intangibility
The ability to turn one's body into something so that when hit, it reacts like that something, the ability to create that something, and where missing parts can be replaced by that something. Like an Earth logia would be as tough as earth, and if you broke their arm off they could create more earth to replace it.
Suigetsu can also be said to have it.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Logia Users have it.From One Piece.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Logia
I am the most awesomest nice guy on the internet, ever. It would have taken 3 troll posts from any other poster to give you the answer. 😐
Thanks and noted. lol. I have been told by several people from my work to get into this manga, I just haven't had the time. I will though. In this case, I would have to say, mind you only reading the wiki on the subject, that Konan does not fall in this category as it is evident that it causes her great chakra strain to perform enormus attacks like the lake feat. It also seems that in scans posted by you and from what I can remember, she is not always in this form like say Tsunade is in her jutsu that keeps her young. Still she has to be ranked an S class ninja no?
Originally posted by socool8520
Thanks and noted. lol. I have been told by several people from my work to get into this manga, I just haven't had the time. I will though. In this case, I would have to say, mind you only reading the wiki on the subject, that Konan does not fall in this category as it is evident that it causes her great chakra strain to perform enormus attacks like the lake feat.
Logia is still just what your body is made of. Gowing tired in still allowed.
Basically the arguments are- I say when her normal paper mode is active her body reacts like paper.
Dadudemon says even when her paper mode is active, the torso, head, etc. will still react like flesh and be vulnerable.
It also seems that in scans posted by you and from what I can remember, she is not always in this form like say Tsunade is in her jutsu that keeps her young. Still she has to be ranked an S class ninja no?
It is outright stated all Akatsuki are S class.
Originally posted by Q99
Oh, I agree. Both sides are super wrong.The ability to turn one's body into something so that when hit, it reacts like that something, the ability to create that something, and where missing parts can be replaced by that something. Like an Earth logia would be as tough as earth, and if you broke their arm off they could create more earth to replace it.
Suigetsu can also be said to have it.
But, it is also reacitve correct? Suigetsu is not water all the time. so then intense fire or water/fire/oil in Konan's case could defeat said defense? not telling you this is fat by the way, just getting your opinion in earnest.
Originally posted by socool8520
But, it is also reacitve correct? Suigetsu is not water all the time.
Hm, good question, honestly I'm not sure if Suigetsu's ever turned it off.
Konan can definitely have it on or off. When it's on, it works like logia, and she keeps it on throughout fights if she can. When it's off, she's fleshy. The debate's mostly on when it's on.
so then intense fire or water/fire/oil in Konan's case could defeat said defense?
Yes. Anything that can burn away, completely shred, or so on her body will do if it's strong enough to overwhelm her (though water doesn't seem to bother her much, crab summon hit her with water to clean the oil off. And oil just makes her sticky and unable to produce paper- it doesn't actually destroy any). Chakra beams would too, or lightning jutsu, or rasenshuriken.
Stuff like swords, crushing, and such, will not.
not telling you this is fat by the way, just getting your opinion in earnest.
I'll answer any questions you have to the best of my ability 🙂
Originally posted by Q99
Logia is still just what your body is made of. Gowing tired in still allowed.Basically the arguments are- I say when her normal paper mode is active her body reacts like paper.
Dadudemon says even when her paper mode is active, the torso, head, etc. will still react like flesh and be vulnerable.
I see. In that case, wouldn't she be just as vulnerable to most S class ninja in paper form then? Paper is susceptible to water, fire, wind, earth, oil just like flesh. Most S class ninjas have attacks on a wide scale to handle her basic paper form. Her prep jutsu is another story all together. Not too many outside of SS getting out of that one come to mind. For an S class ninja these attacks wouldn't be to hard to conjure up.
It is outright stated all Akatsuki are S class.
You're correct and will have no debate from me except that I feel that Hidan is S ranked solely off the fact he is Akutski and not from actual skill. Every other member is well deserved of an S rank.
Originally posted by socool8520
I see. In that case, wouldn't she be just as vulnerable to most S class ninja in paper form then? Paper is susceptible to water, fire, wind, earth, oil just like flesh.
Not exactly. One, paper form can replace destroyed paper. Remove most of her *torso* and she's fine. How many S-class ninja can say that?
Two, what's earth going to do to Paper? Crushes it? It's already flat.
Even with the likes of Wind and Water, an attack that just does impact will merely scatter paper around to be re-formed. A wind jutsu that blows won't do much.
Also consider Taijutsu- someone comes into HtH with a paper form person and paper just wraps around them.
Most S class ninjas have attacks on a wide scale to handle her basic paper form.
Which is where more active defenses. But it helps even then, limiting their effective arsenals, and even some S-class do not, and tons of lower ranked ninja don't.
You're correct and will have no debate from me except that I feel that Hidan is S ranked solely off the fact he is Akutski and not from actual skill. Every other member is well deserved of an S rank.
Well, Hidan does have immortality and a jutsu that will auto-take down even the likes of Jinchuuriki transformed into Biju mode. Plus high taijutsu skill.
While he possible the weakest S ever, it's also true most weaker ninja can't really do too much to him.
Originally posted by socool8520
That's the problem, i think all we have to go off of is Itachi's word. It was stated that Izanagi only lasts a minute. Also, I like the multiple examples given as they all seem plausible. didn't it always start the loop after itachi gets stabbed? I think that was the start, just to fool Kabuto the first or second time around.
Danzou's Izanagi only lasted for a minute. Tobi's lasted for 10 minutes. It varies, but apparently it only lasts for longer than a few seconds if you have Senju DNA.
The loop starts a little before Kabuto grabs Sasuke's sword, and ends a little after Itachi and Kabuto clash.
Yeah, they do. Though it's most likely the last one I posted, as Kabuto's horn does not 'regenerate' until after that last scan.
~ Also, dammit Aura, let's derail this thread. This Konan shit has gotten old.
Originally posted by Q99
Not exactly. One, paper form can replace destroyed paper. Remove most of her *torso* and she's fine. How many S-class ninja can say that?
You're right. Her defense in general is better than most. However, I think people like Kakashi, Gai, Sasuke have strong enough attacks to handle the defense (based on fire attacks like the Uchiha fireball, or peacock attacks that are wide and/or numerous)
Two, what's earth going to do to Paper? Crushes it? It's already flat.
Even with the likes of Wind and Water, an attack that just does impact will merely scatter paper around to be re-formed. A wind jutsu that blows won't do much.[/B]
True, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the wind element Naruto style that tears at the molecular level. You kno like the kind of wind that will erode rock over time on a bigger S classed scale. Same with water ala Kakashi water dragon jutsu or Kisame water jutsus.
Also consider Taijutsu- someone comes into HtH with a paper form person and paper just wraps around them.
[/B]
Which is where more active defenses. But it helps even then, limiting their effective arsenals, and even some S-class do not, and tons of lower ranked ninja don't. [/B]
Agreed completely. whisch is why S class is perfectly justifie in my opinion
Well, Hidan does have immortality and a jutsu that will auto-take down even the likes of Jinchuuriki transformed into Biju mode. Plus high taijutsu skill.While he possible the weakest S ever, it's also true most weaker ninja can't really do too much to him. [/B]
Again, I agree, but I am glad we can agree that he is probably the weakest S ever, and that is solely based off the fact that not everyone knows his jutsus. Otherwise I think he is A class at best