The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
What was the second time cause I can only remember Sasuke breaking Itachi out of a genjutsu.

What was the difference between the two again? Wonder if he's going to ignore Itachi again and start trying to kill his ex fellow ninja again.

Here & here.
Of course, the first time, Itachi did have to save Sasuke's ass, which was why Itachi needed to be saved in the first place, so I guess it doesn't count.

By Roid-raging Sasuke, I mean the one who lost his marbles and decided to attack the 5 Kage, and had the Hulk-out in his fight with Danzou.
By Insane Sasuke, I mean the one who pwned the Zetsu and had the crazy look in his eyes, up until he saw Itachi. Not apt names, but meh.

Dunno what he'll do now. He has to fight Naruto though, and Tobi still has his own plan for Sasuke.

Originally posted by Q99
Hm, interesting.

I don't know if it works with the ninja ranking system I use, though. That's not really the case between a mid-chunin and a high chunin, for example.

Have you considered doing the ranking with different designations on the level?

It would make ratings based much more on feats and how well they work against other types and abilities.

We would have to eliminate people like Mito from a list like that. We just do not know how she would fit since she has no feats...prolly a load of implied ability.

I know my homie does not like ranking ninjas but, in universe, everything is ranked. They are given stats and the really good ninja are given "S-Class", "Sannin", and "Kage level" ranks. Militarily, they are given "genin, chunin, and jonin", so the in-universe has a strong proclivity towards ranking, as you have done/pioneered for our lovely group here on KMC. So I cannot just ignore/reject ranking ninjas. It has to be done. It begs to be done.

That said, I do think we should have a new ranking system based on the "two at a time" idea.

I could start making a list.

We could even do an entirely new list that is much more in-universe/pragmatic. Like so:

pre-genin, genin, chunin, jonin, kage, post-kage.

What do you think? Yea? Nay?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
& here.

OOOOOOHHHH SHHHHIIIIT! I tooootally missed that the first time around! That chapter just got so much better. I didn't even see the talisman in Kabuto's hand. Man, Kabuto is more awesome that I was giving him credit for. He's ruthless, fast, calculating. I think we now have someone on par with Minato's ability to just quickly bust out the rapey pwnage in quick succession. If it were just 1v1, Itachi would be gone.

I know my homie does not like ranking ninjas but, in universe, everything is ranked. They are given stats and the really good ninja are given "S-Class", "Sannin", and "Kage level" ranks. Militarily, they are given "genin, chunin, and jonin", so the in-universe has a strong proclivity towards ranking, as you have done/pioneered for our lovely group here on KMC. So I cannot just ignore/reject ranking ninjas. It has to be done. It begs to be done.

Well, S, A, B, C, D, E, does correspond to Kage, Jonin, Special Jonin, Chunin, Genin, Cadet. Just in mission-terms rather than formal ranking terms.

But I mean, if you're doing "Every level is worth two of the previous level," then the levels aren't based on those ranks, which cover other stuff, but purely individual combat capacity and in increments that don't line up with the ranking.

Like, if someone has a jutsu that makes them effectively immune to Genin, but people the next rank below don't find it a big deal, then it'll barely show up in your proposed ranking, but it would show up big time in the official ninja rankings and my list.

So my suggestion would be to start from the bottom, call it something like 'base level,' then follow it up with 'second level' for the people twice as strong as them, 'third' for the ones twice as strong as them, and so on.

Originally posted by Q99
...then the levels aren't based on those ranks, which cover other stuff, but purely individual combat capacity and in increments that don't line up with the ranking.

But that's important....pretty much singularly important in the in-Naruto universe. Military capacity is what the entire ninja world is about and what the chunin exams measure. Having a high-tactical mind directly helps in military situations. But that's not everything. You have to be able to do something with that. So combat comes into play.

Originally posted by Q99
Like, if someone has a jutsu that makes them effectively immune to Genin, but people the next rank below don't find it a big deal, then it'll barely show up in your proposed ranking, but it would show up big time in the official ninja rankings and my list.

But, that's the point. That's the strength of that type of rating system. We want to exclude those types. For example interrogation techniques does not a great ninja make. There is more to a ninja than just interrogation techniques.

Originally posted by Q99
[BSo my suggestion would be to start from the bottom, call it something like 'base level,' then follow it up with 'second level' for the people twice as strong as them, 'third' for the ones twice as strong as them, and so on. [/B]

I think the idea of using the military designations will work the same.

Fore example, I can see Jiraiya taking on 2 or more special jonin and winning.

So we can add special jonin to the ranking system, too.

Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]But that's important....pretty much singularly important in the in-Naruto universe. Military capacity is what the entire ninja world is about and what the chunin exams measure. Having a high-tactical mind directly helps in military situations. But that's not everything. You have to be able to do something with that. So combat comes into play.

Ah, but your ranking isn't taking into account total military capacity, just in one or two-on-one situations.

There are people who can deal with tons of mooks, but will fall to two strong individuals, even if said individuals will fall to mooks.

There's also people who are large assets to battles, assisting allies, who are less assists in individual fights. Shikamaru, for example, has battlefield usage that exceeds his personal combat capacity.

I think the idea of using the military designations will work the same.

Consider Inoichi and Choza, though.

Choza can probably beat almost any 2 special jonin. Inoichi cannot- his abilities are much more ill-suited to taking on two people near his rank, and while he uses a power against him,

Furthermore, against mooks, Choza could probably beat a hundred genin, while Inoichi would be in massive trouble.

However, Inoichi could possess Choza one on one and beat him, and even some people a good deal stronger than Choza.

This is all stuff I try and consider when I rankings, but isn't really going to show up in a more personal-combat based system. When primarily considering the capability to beat two people of the next rank down, Choza will rank higher due to Inoichi's limits.

Fore example, I can see Jiraiya taking on 2 or more special jonin and winning.

Jiraiya? Wouldn't he be in the Kage level, two above special jonin?

Originally posted by Q99
Ah, but your ranking isn't taking into account total military capacity, just in one or two-on-one situations.

But...that's exactly what I am not wanting to do. Why would that matter? The point is individuals in the military, not the entire military.

Originally posted by Q99
There are people who can deal with tons of mooks, but will fall to two strong individuals, even if said individuals will fall to mooks.

Yeah, that's my point.

Originally posted by Q99
There's also people who are large assets to battles, assisting allies, who are less assists in individual fights. Shikamaru, for example, has battlefield usage that exceeds his personal combat capacity.

But in a fight, he can beat much much stronger opponents because of his brains. The total package comes to battle. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Consider Inoichi and Choza, though.

Choza can probably beat almost any 2 special jonin. Inoichi cannot- his abilities are much more ill-suited to taking on two people near his rank, and while he uses a power against him,

Furthermore, against mooks, Choza could probably beat a hundred genin, while Inoichi would be in massive trouble.

However, Inoichi could possess Choza one on one and beat him, and even some people a good deal stronger than Choza.

This is all stuff I try and consider when I rankings, but isn't really going to show up in a more personal-combat based system. When primarily considering the capability to beat two people of the next rank down, Choza will rank higher due to Inoichi's limits.

But that's only one exception, not the actual point. In my proposed system, it would be any two that they would have to beat or stalemate to move to the next level, not a specific two.

They are just good at big destruction and that's really it. This is why you would have to consider them in the matchup. Choji and probably Choza are weak against genjtusu. Choza and Choji are certainly strong but a chunin could easily defeat either one of them with genjutsu if he or she was good at it (most likely). So, in this case, Inoichi WOULD be the stronger fighter, overall. The ability to take out mooks is quite irrelevent in the system I proposed: they have to be able to take out 2 or stalemate two, to advance to the next rank/class.

Originally posted by Q99
Jiraiya? Wouldn't he be in the Kage level, two above special jonin?

I said "2 or more", not "defeat or stalemate 2". That's because he's better than a jonin. 🙂

But...that's exactly what I am not wanting to do. Why would that matter? The point is individuals in the military, not the entire military.

Well, that's my point. My ranks are a ninja's individual capability in a wide variety of situations, their total battle utility including support stuff and the like, while you're focusing on much more narrow combat circumstances.

But that's only one exception, not the actual point. In my proposed system, it would be any two that they would have to beat or stalemate to move to the next level, not a specific two.

My point is, such a level ranking would separate them quite differently than their officially given ranks because of situations like that.

Given that it'll go quite differently than their actual ranks in quite a few circumstances, and heck, I suspect you'll find you'll have a different total number of ranks than the official list (since any doubling will make a new level, and I suspect you'll find multiple levels within Genin alone), you probably will want to use names for the levels other than their in-universe ranks or you may find yourself with a tangle.

i just want to know how many uchiha there were with senju blood.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i just want to know how many uchiha there were with senju blood.

Since they are long lost relatives, all of them. vin

I doubt any within the main clans, but one can picture some rogue Uchiha and Senju who've left and gone off on their own.

Of course, that should produce uber-ninja children which we haven't seen. Hm... unless Nagato is really an Uzumaki/Uchiha...

Well, we know for a fact that the Namikaze clan is the most powerful clan.

Followed by the Uzumaki.

Then the Sarutobi.

Next would be the Uchiha.

Then the Senju.

Then probably the Hatake.

You're a really gay person.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, we know for a fact that the Namikaze clan is the most powerful clan.

The Namikaze isn't a clan thought...it's just a really cool surname; that would've made Naruto ten times better if he had it.

That was one of the better Springtime of Youths.

Did Itachi come with picture props for his explanation? 'cause I doubt Sasuke could get what he was saying without a diagram. >_>

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not really. Izanami was never alluded to once in the manga before Itachi just says "I has Izanami lol." That would be foreshadowing. The case with Izanami is that it is a technique that Itachi just suddenly has. It had certain build up as to what it would do but its existence was never hinted at.

Nah, it's not a crazy technique by any means really. It's just poorly placed in the story.

Wasn't Izanagi the same way? I don't remember hearing about it until Danzou pulled it out of his ass. But I'm probably just forgetting something.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well I mean, that Tobi guy was pretty evil. Use Izanami on him and then slit his throat while he is trying to figure things out.

Or Danzo. He is clearly a mutinous ****wad that is going to screw everything up in Konoha. Kill him.

Or hell, just use Izanami on Sasuke and let the only way for him to get out be for him to truly give up on his revenge. Izanami seems to be designed to be something that scolds people and if it costs an eye it should be really effective.

But that's just me.

Wow, this makes alot of sense. He could have used it at anytime unless it was something he learned soon before his death.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
You know, I was thinking that maybe Izanami wouldn't be so bad if Sasuke was the one that got it. Considering how EMS is supposed to give him a new tech, Izanami would've been perfect especially if it could be spammed.

That it's! As Daudemon stated, the problem is Itachi being the one that know about Izanami and by extension the only one that can use it.

So....this chapter bring up yet another question; was there any point in bringing Sasuke along in this fight? Cause currently, I can count the number of times Sasuke did something useful against Kabuto on one hand....with fingers missing 😐.

I'm hoping it was to talk some sense into so he stops acting like an idiot. I think he tries to incorporate what he is teaching Kabuto with this tech to Sasuke as he is explaining. I hate Sasuke, but it would be nice for him to be playing for the home team again.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, we know for a fact that the Namikaze clan is the most powerful clan.

Followed by the Uzumaki.

Then the Sarutobi.

Next would be the Uchiha.

Then the Senju.

Then probably the Hatake.

What?

Hasn't it been stated that Senju and Uchiha were the strongest clans? I could see where the Uzamaki's fit in considering how strong Naruto and Nagato are. the Sarutobi were average outside of Hiruzen. We have never seen another Namikaze so we can't include them. For all we know, Minato is a one-in-a-million Namikaze.

Originally posted by dadudemon
OOOOOOHHHH SHHHHIIIIT! I tooootally missed that the first time around! That chapter just got so much better. I didn't even see the talisman in Kabuto's hand. Man, Kabuto is more awesome that I was giving him credit for. He's ruthless, fast, calculating. I think we now have someone on par with Minato's ability to just quickly bust out the rapey pwnage in quick succession. If it were just 1v1, Itachi would be gone.

What is the significance of this???? Do tell.