The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Effect Veiler
Wrong.

Let me put it this way so someone of your intellect can comprehend.

Madara imagines fiftyeleven omniverses with full with infinite omnipotents drawing square circles. He then uses Izanagi. What happens?

Nothing, since Izanagi has not been shown to be capable of that. 😄

I find it sorta funny that you believe that a manga where the most powerful characters are multi-mountain busters at best contains omnipotents who can created multiple omniverses.

Look up the definition of PIS.

Effectively "Forgot about his powers".

We've never seen Izanagi do nearly what you think it can.

Therefore it not doing so isn't PIS.

You're committing a no-limits fallacy.

Stop being stupid.

Yet I won over you just now. How sad.

By what standard is that?

I had to have my morning cereal to get the energy to continue to deal with your stupidity. Now, where was I?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nothing, since Izanagi has not been shown to be capable of that.

Originally posted by NemeBro I find it sorta funny that you believe that a manga where the most powerful characters are multi-mountain busters at best contains omnipotents who can created multiple omniverses.

Originally posted by NemeBro Effectively "Forgot about his powers".

Originally posted by NemeBro You're committing a no-limits fallacy.

Originally posted by NemeBro By what standard is that? [/B]

What an amusing troll. Welcome to the forum sir.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
What an amusing troll. Welcome to the forum sir.

So much angst. It's delicious.

I like this "new" guy, Effect Veiler.

And what Izanagi actually did was create "life". It doesn't create whatever, it allows the creation of life. That's the "ultimate" ability of Izanagi. The ability to imagine a creature, within the laws that govern that universe, though, is quite a powerful technique. It does border on a mild form of omnipotence. Any claims beyond "it can create life" are unconfirmed speculation and cannot be regarded as factual or canon.

However, and this is the most important fact in this recent debate: I agree with Nemebro and that makes Nemebro right. 313

I think someone's confusing Izanagi withit's parent jutsu the "Creation of all Things" that Rikkudo Senin used to make the Biju. Izanagi makes life or rather turns death into a illusion. The former is what allows for actually creating of stuff while the latter turns reality into illusion or using an eyeball to flip off Death.

^ This is what I thought. I was under the impression Izanagi was just a genjutsu that makes you change the outcome of your situation. It's never been used to do anything else, especially not to create multiple universes. It has always been showed to be limited to a fight sequence.

^ It has only been shown fight sequences, but it is not limited to a fight. Uchiha nins apparently used it to correct any mistake they made, and it didn't seem to be limited to battle.

How would they achieve this more than once? It seems rather pointless to correct any mistake outside of battle. Then what do you do in battle? The option is now gone. Seems like a waste to me.

I guess they are creating alternate universes to some degree since they are changing events. However it seems to only work on events that are currently happening. I don't think they can just make up anything they want and make it happen.

Doesn't Izanagi simply turn reality to illusion -- to negate an undesired event -- and not the other way around? If anyone could tell me what chapter that panel is from I could look up the original and check the translation.

Originally posted by Astner
Doesn't Izanagi simply turn reality to illusion -- to negate an undesired event -- and not the other way around? If anyone could tell me what chapter that panel is from I could look up the original and check the translation.

Here you go:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c478/16.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/2.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/3.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/4.html

Originally posted by socool8520
How would they achieve this more than once? It seems rather pointless to correct any mistake outside of battle. Then what do you do in battle? The option is now gone. Seems like a waste to me.

I guess they are creating alternate universes to some degree since they are changing events. However it seems to only work on events that are currently happening. I don't think they can just make up anything they want and make it happen.

Two eyes = two uses of Izanagi per person. In addition, Izanagi has a set duration. This means that within that duration, they can alter anything they want to, multiple times.
In a battle with multiple Uchiha and enemies, most of these Uchiha could use Izanagi. The reason Izanami was invented was to prevent multiple Izanagi users from fighting with each other over the results when they used Izanagi, and to stop them from using it needlessly to fix some of their mistakes.

No they cannot just make up anything and then use Izanagi to make that a reality. That's restricted to the Sage's jutsu, Creation of all Things.
Izanagi can however negate any event that happens to the user, and they can then create a much more favourable outcome to said event. It's not restricted to death or injuries.

Here's a thing I wanted to cover:

I say Danzo's speed is a 5:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c480/12.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c480/13.html

He completely dodged Sasuke's speed blitz and grabbed Karin. I do not think Sasuke is a speed slouch: a 4.5 to 5 by this point in the manga.

Edit - Did Danzo really say "f*ck you, Danzo" here in this page?

If he did, Tobi is more awesome in my book.

Double edit - Also, Kakashi is strong:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v52/c485/2.html

He hit Sasuke so hard he bounced off the wall. lol

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Two eyes = two uses of Izanagi per person. In addition, Izanagi has a set duration. This means that within that duration, they can alter anything they want to, multiple times.
In a battle with multiple Uchiha and enemies, most of these Uchiha could use Izanagi. The reason Izanami was invented was to prevent multiple Izanagi users from fighting with each other over the results when they used Izanagi, and to stop them from using it needlessly to fix some of their mistakes.

No they cannot just make up anything and then use Izanagi to make that a reality. That's restricted to the Sage's jutsu, Creation of all Things.
Izanagi can however negate any event that happens to the user, and they can then create a much more favourable outcome to said event. It's not restricted to death or injuries.

Hmmmm...I thought that after the first eye, you couldn't use it anymore. Also, has their ever been a set time limit? Danzou had about 60 seconds, but is this based on skill? or him not being an Uchiha? It also seems like you wouldn't want to use it unless in a death type situation considering you will no longer be able to use susano'o and amaterasu.

Originally posted by socool8520
Hmmmm...I thought that after the first eye, you couldn't use it anymore. Also, has their ever been a set time limit? Danzou had about 60 seconds, but is this based on skill? or him not being an Uchiha? It also seems like you wouldn't want to use it unless in a death type situation considering you will no longer be able to use susano'o and amaterasu.

That scan shows that it was due to Danzo not being an Uchiha.

Danzo infused himself with Senju cells to extend the duration. The word, in reference to what Oro did, used was "forcibly".

I think the duration varies. Danzou's time limit per eye seemed to be a minute, though even he wasn't sure if it was a minute. Karin just saw one eye closing after a minute, and assumed all the others closed after a minute as well.
Whereas Tobi's time limit per eye was likely ten minutes.
Consensus is that Hashirama's DNA increases the time limit. Regular Uchiha could probably use it for like half a minute or so.

The MS was pretty rare amongst the Uchiha, and Susano'o was even rarer. MS techs also vary depending on the user.
Besides, we saw Itachi was willing to sacrifice an eye for Izanami. Uchiha nins probably saw sacrificing one eye for victory in a major battle as an acceptable trade. Clan members can get pretty zealous.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here you go:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c478/16.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/2.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/3.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/4.html

Originally posted by Effect Veiler

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I think the duration varies. Danzou's time limit per eye seemed to be a minute, though even he wasn't sure if it was a minute. Karin just saw one eye closing after a minute, and assumed all the others closed after a minute as well.
Whereas Tobi's time limit per eye was likely ten minutes.
Consensus is that Hashirama's DNA increases the time limit. Regular Uchiha could probably use it for like half a minute or so.

The MS was pretty rare amongst the Uchiha, and Susano'o was even rarer. MS techs also vary depending on the user.
Besides, we saw Itachi was willing to sacrifice an eye for Izanami. Uchiha nins probably saw sacrificing one eye for victory in a major battle as an acceptable trade. Clan members can get pretty zealous.

I thought the consensus was around 5 minutes for Tobi, considering Konan said that he could go inatangible for around 5 mins.

I assumed Itachi was willing to sacrifice the eye because he was dead anyways. Plus, he was pretty positive the tech would work. Again, this was in a battle situation. I really don't see the uses of Izanagi/Izanami outside of them. It would be pretty careless imo.

Originally posted by socool8520
I thought the consensus was around 5 minutes for Tobi, considering Konan said that he could go inatangible for around 5 mins.

I assumed Itachi was willing to sacrifice the eye because he was dead anyways. Plus, he was pretty positive the tech would work. Again, this was in a battle situation. I really don't see the uses of Izanagi/Izanami outside of them. It would be pretty careless imo.

Tobi specifically said 10 minutes for his Izanagi.