Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Why is jugo in AHes done nothing superior to any B
What about that huge chakra beam he fired at Raikage?
He's got a lot of strength, he can absorb others, he can do a lot in melee with his various seal shapes, and the chakra beam things, which he's also used for jet-boosted jumps and melee attack.
Originally posted by Q99
Updating the ranks because I haven't in awhile despite us having a few changes.Stats:
SS
Hashirama^
Madara Uchiha (EMS only or with Rinnegan + Wood)^
Naruto Uzumaki (Full Partnership)
Tobi (Jinchuuriki Paths)^SS-
Kurama (Full power)
Nagato (Pain or Solo)S+
Itachi Uchiha
Izuna Uchiha
Gedō Mazō
Gyūki
Kabuto Yakushi (Post-Merged Sage)*
Killerbee
Minato Namikaze
Mito Uzumaki
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha (Complete Susano'o)
Second Mizukage
Third Raikage
Tobi (Sharingan only)^
YaguraS
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Deva Path (Yahiko/Pain)
Fū (Jinchuuriki)
Gaara (Kage)
Jiraiya
Han
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Konan*
Kushina Uzumaki
Manda II
Mei Terumi
Might Gai (part 2)
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)*
Orochimaru*
Roshi
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo w/incomplete susano'o)
Shukaku
Tsunade
Utakata
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito NiiS-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Fukasaku
Ginkaku
Hidan
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Mangetsu Hōzuki (Swords)
Mifune
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shima
Shisui Uchiha
Zetsu (Black half or Complete)*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei, preparing multiple sage-mode charges, or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.
^These characters have high-level Biju control of tailed beasts outside of their bodies.
A+
Animal Path (Pain)
Asuma Sarutobi
Asura Path (Pain)
Dan Katō
Enma
Hiashi Hyuuga
Ibuse the Salamander
Jūgo
Kabuto Yakushi
Kakashi Hatake (part 1)
Kimimaro Kaguya (sick)
Mangetsu Hōzuki (No swords)
Might Gai (part 1)
Multi-Headed Dog
Suigetsu Hōzuki
Suikazan Fuguki (Samehada)
Yamato
Zabuza MomochiA
Ao
Baki
Baku
Dodai
Fū (ANBU)
Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Gamabunta
Gari
Giant Clam
Hizashi Hyuuga
Human Path (Pain)
Kankurō (with Sasori puppet)
Katsuyu
Killer Bee (Young, Minato fight)
Kurenai Yuhi
Kurotsuchi
Manda
Munashi Jinpachi
Naruto Uzumaki (post elemental training)
Neji Hyuuga (part 2)
Pakura
Ringo Ameyuri
Sasori (Sans puppet arsenal)
ToruneA-
C
Chōjūrō
Chōji Akimichi (Asuma Fight)
Chōza Akimichi
Gamahiro
Gamaken
Inoichi Yamanaka
Jinin Akebino
Kushimaru Kuriarare
Kakko (Kakashi Gaiden)
Naruto Uzumaki (start of part 2)
Preta Path (Pain)
Sai (post-emotions)
Shibi Aburame
Shikaku Nara
Shizune
Suikazan Fuguki (No sword)
Temari (start of part 2)B+
Drill-Beaked Bird
Genma Shiranui
Haku
Ibiki Morino
Ittan
Kakashi Hatake (Kakashi Gaiden)
Kankurō (as of Sasori fight)
Mahiru
Naraka Path (Pain)
Naruto Uzumaki (One Tail)
Rock Lee (part 2)
Sai (start)
Sakura Haruno (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (VotE)
Snake-Tailed ChameleonB
Anko Mitarashi
Gaara (Chuunin Exam)
Giant Crab/Ox/Panda/Rhino
Ino Yamanaka (4th Shinobi War)
Kamatari
Kankurō (Sasuke Retrieval)
Omoi
Sakon/Ukon
Shino Aburame (part 2)
Shikamaru Nara (part 2)
Taiseki (Kakashi Gaiden)
Temari (Sasuke Retrieval)
Three Great Snakes
Toroi
Tsume InuzukaB-
Aoba Yamashiro
Chōji Akimichi (start of part 2)
Doki
Giant Centipedes
Hayate Gekkō
Hinata Hyuuga (part 2)
Jirōbō
Kabuto Yakushi (Iwa flashback)
Kiba Inazuka (part 2)
Kidōmaru
Neji Hyuuga (Sasuke Retrieval)
Nonō Yakushi
Shin
Tayuya
Tenten (Part 2)C+
Ebisu
Ino Yamanaka (start of part 2)
Karin
Naruto Uzumaki (Post Rasengan Training)
Neji Hyuga (Chunin exam)
Rock Lee (Chunin exam)
Sasuke Uchiha (Chunin exam finals)
Shikamaru Nara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Temari (Chunin exam)
White Zetsu CloneC
Dosu
Iruka
Izumo Kamizuki
Kankuro (Chunin exam)
Konohamaru Sarutobi (part 2)
Kotetsu Hagane
Obito Uchiha (Sharingan)
Rin
Sasuke Uchiha (Sharingan)
Shikamaru Nara (Chunin exam)
Shino Aburame (Chunin exam)
YashamaruC-
Gōzu (Demon Brother)
Kiba Inazuka (Chunin exam)
Meizu (Demon Brother)
Mizuki
Naruto Uzumaki (Post clone jutsu)
Obito Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Sasuke Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
ShigureD+
Chōji Akimichi (Chunin exam)
Hinata Hyuga (part 1)
Ino Yamanaka (Chunin exam)
Kin
Oboro
Tenten (Chunin exam)
ZakuD
Misumi Tsurugi
Sakura Haruno (Chunin exam)
Yoroi AkadōD-
Rock Lee (Just graduated Genin)
Sakura Haruno (Start)E+
Naruto Uzumaki (pre-clone jutsu)E-
Konohamaru Sarutobi (start)
Rock Lee (Academy flashback)---
Added Dan, and raised Madara and Hashirama's base forms.
I don't understand why Hash is up there with rinnegan + wood Madara. He only defeated Madara less those two things. And he definitely isn't beating him with the ET body unless he has help. I think there should be a separation of EMS Madara and current Madara. There is no way they are that close in power.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
nagato has better feats, bigger power displays, more property damage, etc than the 9-tails
That's because Nagato did shenra tensei on a city and Naruto used beast ball in an open, uninhabited area. Had he used it on a city for whatever reason, the results would be the same as Nagato's. If not, more powerful.
Originally posted by Q99
What about that huge chakra beam he fired at Raikage?He's got a lot of strength, he can absorb others, he can do a lot in melee with his various seal shapes, and the chakra beam things, which he's also used for jet-boosted jumps and melee attack.
he reminds me of one of the rocket boots path + energy beams. An A rank seems good.
Originally posted by socool8520i'm talking about the beat on it's own. bijuu are less effective without hosts and their attack variety is pretty basic, not to mention them being simply minded
That's because Nagato did shenra tensei on a city and Naruto used beast ball in an open, uninhabited area. Had he used it on a city for whatever reason, the results would be the same as Nagato's. If not, more powerful.
Originally posted by socool8520
I don't understand why Hash is up there with rinnegan + wood Madara. He only defeated Madara less those two things. And he definitely isn't beating him with the ET body unless he has help. I think there should be a separation of EMS Madara and current Madara. There is no way they are that close in power.
FAPS says otherwise, and Hashirama beat that. One sword slash from FAPS >= a Bijuu Bomb.
Originally posted by BloodRain
9 tails without Naruto was blowing up mountains with small (relative to the size they can get up to) Bijuu Bomb.
That was when it had all of its power though.
And again, at least half the power was from the other 5 Bijuus.
Still, Kurama > Nagato in terms of destructive capacity, though Nagato can easily just ST Kurama's ass away in a fight. awesome
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
FAPS says otherwise, and Hashirama beat that. One sword slash from FAPS >= a Bijuu Bomb.That was when it had all of its power though.
And again, at least half the power was from the other 5 Bijuus.Still, Kurama > Nagato in terms of destructive capacity, though Nagato can easily just ST Kurama's ass away in a fight. awesome
I assume he couldn't keep FAPS for very long without ET body. I think we are giving way too much credit to base Madara. I'm sure several speedsters could dodge FAPS for a limited time. I don't think he could maintain FAPS for any real length of time. Hash can handle that. he really only has to weather FAPS, and with his medical jutsu/mokuton, he could pull off the W I guess. There is no way he is in the same league as current Madara though, whose unlimited chakra and regen outmatch everyone right now as far as out lasting people (even Naruto).
On FAPS, I find it hard to believe now that he did use it against Hash. For one, I thought he needed Senju DNA/rinnegan to pull it off. Second, didn't he say anyone who has seen has died save for current Kages?
Originally posted by BloodRainYeah, it isn't above it, but FP Kurama would have a lot more chakra at his disposal than current Kurama does, assuming Kurama has not regenerated the sealed portion of his chakra, and/or that Naruto does not have a chakra capacity that is half of FP Kurama's.
A small bomb from FP Kurama can't be above a larger one from his weakened self. But if not it would still need to be a lot weaker to be less than mountain busting.
Half the power of what?If K9 BB > ST, and Minato's seals > K9 BB. Could Minato have teleported that huge chunk o' rocks somewhere else?
Half the power of this, was from the 5 Bijuu. Still, half should be above Mountain Busting.
Highly doubt it.
Minato ported the bomb before it exploded, when the bomb was a lot smaller. He could port the core of Chibaku Tensei, but I don't see that happening, as Nagato always shoots it up into the air, and it probably travels faster than Minato's kunai toss. Minato would have to port somewhere else to evade CT.
Originally posted by BloodRain
A small bomb from FP Kurama can't be above a larger one from his weakened self. But if not it would still need to be a lot weaker to be less than mountain busting.
Half the power of what?If K9 BB > ST, and Minato's seals > K9 BB. Could Minato have teleported that huge chunk o' rocks somewhere else?
I'm sure he could have, albeit, at a heavy cost to his chakra like when he did that with the beast ball. Still, he had enough to also teleport kurama away as well. his chakra stores must be pretty good.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, it isn't above it, but FP Kurama would have a lot more chakra at his disposal than current Kurama does, assuming Kurama has not regenerated the sealed portion of his chakra, and/or that Naruto does not have a chakra capacity that is half of FP Kurama's.Half the power of this, was from the 5 Bijuu. Still, half should be above Mountain Busting.
Highly doubt it.
Minato ported the bomb before it exploded, when the bomb was a lot smaller. He could port the core of Chibaku Tensei, but I don't see that happening, as Nagato always shoots it up into the air, and it probably travels faster than Minato's kunai toss. Minato would have to port somewhere else to evade CT.
He ported a beast ball from a seal he made in mid air. He doesn't need his knives for that.
Originally posted by socool8520
I assume he couldn't keep FAPS for very long without ET body. I think we are giving way too much credit to base Madara. I'm sure several speedsters could dodge FAPS for a limited time. I don't think he could maintain FAPS for any real length of time. Hash can handle that. he really only has to weather FAPS, and with his medical jutsu/mokuton, he could pull off the W I guess. There is no way he is in the same league as current Madara though, whose unlimited chakra and regen outmatch everyone right now as far as out lasting people (even Naruto).On FAPS, I find it hard to believe now that he did use it against Hash. For one, I thought he needed Senju DNA/rinnegan to pull it off. Second, didn't he say anyone who has seen has died save for current Kages?
Who knows how long he could keep it on for, but he could sustain it long enough for him to decimate nearly every single opponent he fought, and to change the landscape.
Based on the kind of area damage a single sword slash does, I doubt speedsters could dodge it. Only Minato could, with FTG.
The Kages assume Madara had FAPS before he died, and that Hashirama fought against it. Madara does not deny it. Ergo, Hashirama fought against it. Madara even implies that Hashirama is capable of the same destruction that Bijuu and FAPS are capable of.
Originally posted by socool8520Yes he does
He ported a beast ball from a seal he made in mid air. He doesn't need his knives for that.
There's no way in hell Minato is porting something of this size, let alone t this
Originally posted by dadudemon
FAPS?BB?
K9?
ST?
FP?
WTF are you guys talking about?
BB most likely equals biju bomb.
FP most likely equals Full Power or Powered
FAPS is an incorrect label for Madara's Final Susano'o (That would ONLY be FS, not FAPS).
So what gives? When did it become "cool" to use so many initialisms?
Acronyms are where it's at homie. Learn to keep up.
Oh, and FAPS = Final Advent Perfect Susano'o. People keep thinking Uchiha get wanked, so yeah. http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/588/16