Originally posted by AuraAngelhim winning/losing has nothing to do why people like him
Clearly not. For all of his plans, he has so few victories of any kind. Compared to others.
then again, danzou is kind of a hero in the manga cause he had to steal all the things that make you relevant in the manga in a valiant effort (sharingan, uzumaki/senju cells, and was working on capturing the 9-tails). he was fighting the "irrelevance": the cousin of the nothing from neverending story. the irrelevance claimed the life of the hyuuga for example
I would argue it should, since as far as I know, people like Danzo because he is a cold, calculating bastard that has no qualms about being cold or dirty. Yeah, like a real ninja. estahuh
The problem comes when you realize Danzo is just cold, not calculating. He doesn't think far enough ahead for him to be effective. Tobi and Orochimaru had it so easy when it came to manipulating Sasuke and Kabuto because of that idiot.
Originally posted by AuraAngelyou're just not getting it. all he did was plot from the shadows, literally.
I would argue it should, since as far as I know, people like Danzo because he is a cold, calculating bastard that has no qualms about being cold or dirty. Yeah, like a real ninja. estahuhThe problem comes when you realize Danzo is just cold, not calculating. He doesn't think far enough ahead for him to be effective. Tobi and Orochimaru had it so easy when it came to manipulating Sasuke and Kabuto because of that idiot.
but lets talk about his handicap in part II: obito's eyes are the most powerful weapons of two separate s-class shinobi, and the kid wasa "loser" (i mean that with the most respect possible). uchiha and the other star clans just have a huge head start in the manga, and if danzou had that added buff and everything else that he did was left intact, he'd be final villain.
iirc tobi's izanagi gave him ten solid minutes of invincibility to avoid dying from konan's attack, danzou had ten sharingan that gave him ten minutes total of intermittent use of izanagi, though his chackra was falling fast from it. both guys needed shodai cells to gain the ability, but danzou being a baseline human has to go the extra mile just to equal what an uchiha gets for free, make danzou simply uchiha and he gets a max izanagi of 110 minutes of izanagi that he wouldn't have to turn off (including shisui's eye, but that's another story in of itself). tobi would just have 20 minutes if he had to sacrifice his two eyes, but that would be fair now wouldn't it?
you have to be an uchiha to matter, danzou and orochimaru picked up on that a long time ago
Originally posted by Nephthys
How he handled Kabuto is especially bad. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did he do all of that shit just to get rid of that woman?
I think he, (1) wanted them to do their job, and (2) then clean up while in enemy territory where no-one would link it to him, in a way that (3) if it failed and one lived, he could probably still use them.
Oro messed up the third part.
Originally posted by Q99
I think he, (1) wanted them to do their job, and (2) then clean up while in enemy territory where no-one would link it to him, in a way that (3) if it failed and one lived, he could probably still use them.Oro messed up the third part.
No, he sent someone to kill Kabuto. He had no intention of using one if they survived because he didn't plan for that and because of that, well, Orochimaru's one servant turned out to be more competent than all of Root.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you're just not getting it. all he did was plot from the shadows, literally.but lets talk about his handicap in part II: obito's eyes are the most powerful weapons of two separate s-class shinobi, and the kid wasa "loser" (i mean that with the most respect possible). uchiha and the other star clans just have a huge head start in the manga, and if danzou had that added buff and everything else that he did was left intact, he'd be final villain.
iirc tobi's izanagi gave him ten solid minutes of invincibility to avoid dying from konan's attack, danzou had ten sharingan that gave him ten minutes total of intermittent use of izanagi, though his chackra was falling fast from it. both guys needed shodai cells to gain the ability, but danzou being a baseline human has to go the extra mile just to equal what an uchiha gets for free, make danzou simply uchiha and he gets a max izanagi of 110 minutes of izanagi that he wouldn't have to turn off (including shisui's eye, but that's another story in of itself). tobi would just have 20 minutes if he had to sacrifice his two eyes, but that would be fair now wouldn't it?
you have to be an uchiha to matter, danzou and orochimaru picked up on that a long time ago
Plotting from the shadows!? How amazing and totally unique to Danzo.
Yeah no, let's get this outta the way right here: Shisui's eye(which Danzo has)>Obito's eyes. Tobi, the guy with one of the latter's eyes, coveted Shisui's eye. Shisui's eye has arguably the strongest genjutsu in the series. Kakashi's eye offers a decent attack at the cost of a lot of his stamina, Tobi's eye offers a great defense and transportation but little in terms of offense. Danzo's eye offers complete and undetectable hypnotism. He should not lose as much as he does.
Wah wah wah is all I hear. If Danzo was a real hero, he'd have been a strong ninja without having to steal Uchiha techs(to his credit, his wind techs are impressive). Like Jiraiya, Minato, Mu, Onoki, the Second Mizukage, Third Raikage, and Kabuto. Instead, he tried to copy the Uchiha and lost where everyone listed above would have won. You know why Danzo lost to Sasuke? Because he is not as good a ninja as Sasuke. Simple as that. The fight was fun though.
Or, pfft, you have to be a major part of the story to matter.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
he'd have been a strong ninja without having to steal Uchiha techs(to his credit, his wind techs are impressive). Like Jiraiya, Minato, Mu, Onoki, the Second Mizukage, Third Raikage, and Kabuto.
I agree with psycho gundam except for this point, here.
You can be an uber ninja without having the overpowered techs that come from the Uchiha.
Case in point, Minato would have WTFpwned both Danzo and Sasuke, when those two fought, at the same damn time. 🙂
However, his overall point is still valid, Aura, and you know it. The Uchiha are waaaaaaay overpowered, at baseline. If an Uchiha practices hard, they will become an S-Class no matter what.
If any other ninja practices hard, there is a very very strong chance that they will never make it to S-Class...or even the high placements in A-class.
The problem with this discussion is that it's no longer about the pros and cons of Danzo as a character. It's become a rant against the Uchiha which, no matter how justified the complaints may be, has nothing to do with Danzo as a character really. Unless one is going to criticize Danzo for trying to substitute talent with forbidden Uchiha techs or something.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
The problem with this discussion is that it's no longer about the pros and cons of Danzo as a character. It's become a rant against the Uchiha which, no matter how justified the complaints may be, has nothing to do with Danzo as a character really. Unless one is going to criticize Danzo for trying to substitute talent with forbidden Uchiha techs or something.
Woah..woah......woah....
My points of discussion were never about pros and cons of Danzo as a character.
Go read my post, again: I could not care less about the pros and cons of Danzo because you all know my stance on him, already: he's one of the very very few "true" ninja in Naruto and had great character development towards the very end of his life.