The Official Naruto series Thread

Demonic Pheonix
Oro's good with genjutsu? He might have picked up genjutsu after he left Konoha, but I don't remember Orochimaru being good with genjutsu.

Remember in the forest of death he was able to do a genjutsu with just a glance, giving everyone visions of their own deaths.

Statbook gives him a 5 in genjutsu, I'm guessing he's about as good as it gets without a sharingan.

Both Kabuto and Anko, his students, are rated high in that category as well.

Originally posted by Q99
Remember in the forest of death he was able to do a genjutsu with just a glance, giving everyone visions of their own deaths.

Statbook gives him a 5 in genjutsu, I'm guessing he's about as good as it gets without a sharingan.

Both Kabuto and Anko, his students, are rated high in that category as well.

That wasn't genjutsu, it was pure killing intent. Yes, they are different.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, I know about that, but:

This makes it seem like the Mangekyou does in fact have the ability to control the fox.
The way I see it, Madara was the only one able to fully control it, and Sasuke could soon be able to do the same. Though with the MS, you can gain some degree of control over it.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Getting his well due'd respect.

Whats with the snake coming from Kabuto? Doesnt seem to go away.

^ kabutomaru with his hood closed

Originally posted by Kento
I guess there had to be some reason the Elders suspected some random Uchiha for the Fox. Though do the Uchiha ever tell anything but half truths? 😆 Why start with a tablet.

That's only Madara, and Itachi, but we know that whole thing was just a facade and that Itachi was really in love with his brother 😛

That tablet was left by the Sage, even the Uchiha wouldn't desecrate it with lies.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That's only Madara, and Itachi, but we know that whole thing was just a facade and that Itachi was really in love with his brother 😛

That tablet was left by the Sage, even the Uchiha wouldn't desecrate it with lies.

Was it said the tablet was left by the Sage? Wasn't Izuna and Madara the first people to ever get the MS in the Uchiha?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That's only Madara, and Itachi, but we know that whole thing was just a facade and that Itachi was really in love with his brother 😛

That tablet was left by the Sage, even the Uchiha wouldn't desecrate it with lies.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But remember, you can't read the complete tablet without rinnegan. Even with the MS, you only get partial knowledge.

Yes of course, but with the Sharingan, you can still see that the MS has the ability to control the Fox. It isn't mentioned whether 'control' refers to complete control, or some degree of control.

The Uchiha obviously added stuff in, because the Sage couldn't have known about the Sharingan.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke also. 😆 And Itachi still told half truths when talking about Madara, and the eyes. And Madara's telling everybody half truths.

Was it said the tablet was left by the Sage? Wasn't Izuna and Madara the first people to ever get the MS in the Uchiha?

Of course he would have told half-truths, he didn't want Sasuke to seek out Madara did he?

Sasuke? Ahh, you're referring to half-truth he said in front of Taka about slaying only the elders of Konoha? I forgot about that. Wasn't that his first time?

I believe Madara told the Kages that it was left to the Uchiha by the Sage.
The Uchiha obviously added stuff in, because the Sage couldn't have known about the Sharingan. That doesn't mean they would put lies on a thing they apparently revere.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke? Ahh, you're referring to half-truth he said in front of Taka about slaying only the elders of Konoha? I forgot about that. Wasn't that his first time?

I believe Madara told the Kages that it was left to the Uchiha by the Sage.
The Uchiha obviously added stuff in, because the Sage couldn't have known about the Sharingan. That doesn't mean they would put lies on a thing they apparently revere.

It all depends on who wrote it all. And if anybody else but Madara ever even tried to control Kyuubi. It could just be written under the assumption that Madara has MS and used Kyuubi so any MS user can since they are all Uchiha.

Of course, they all overlook the real culprit:

Obito!

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes of course, but with the Sharingan, you can still see that the MS has the ability to control the Fox. It isn't mentioned whether 'control' refers to complete control, or some degree of control.

The Uchiha obviously added stuff in, because the Sage couldn't have known about the Sharingan.

Normal eyes: Yeh get teh Mangekyo by killin' yer best frend!

Sharingan: IDK

Mangekyo: Brothers eyes give you EMS, and that "best friend" requirement is a load of shit.

Rinnegan: Actually I just added all that earlier stuff to prank the weak-eyed ones. Don't tell them this though, make up some shit about 10-tailed beasts and my sons giving rise to clans. Uchiha's eat that stuff up. Rinnegan foreva!

Originally posted by Q99
Of course, they all overlook the real culprit:

Obito!

Originally posted by Kento
And the stuff about hating Team 7, and that Taka weren't his friends. Before he went all crazy. When it was because of Team 7 and Taka that he did his first Amaterasu. To protect Taka. And how he doesn't care about Naruto, he'll just kill him. But then gets all emotional on a level that only Itachi can bring Sasuke to when they meet.

It all depends on who wrote it all. And if anybody else but Madara ever even tried to control Kyuubi. It could just be written under the assumption that Madara has MS and used Kyuubi so any MS user can since they are all Uchiha.

Meh, can't really remember those two things, but I'll take your word for it.
Also, I don't remember if he actually hated Team 7, I thought he was just indifferent towards them.

Madara disappeared around 80 years ago. I sincerely doubt that no other Uchiha has unlocked the MS and tried to use it on the Kyuubi since then.
I believe we're told that Yugito can control her tailed-beast to some extent, yet she isn't one that is thought of as having complete control over a tailed-beast like Hashirama/Kirabi/Madara/Yagura.

You have a point though.

I wonder something. In the 60 or so years that Konoha had been around before Kyuubi attacked what happened to the Uchiha who had MS when the clan joined the Senju? Why was Itachi the only one to have it when it was common back before the formation of Konoha, a village that may or may not be any older than Sarutobi.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Madara disappeared around 80 years ago. I sincerely doubt that no other Uchiha has unlocked the MS and tried to use it on the Kyuubi since then.

That reminds me...

Naruto has the fire of the Senju clan, in him. So, maybe he can ALSO control the Kyuubi and that's his kekkei genkai or something like that?

And, how the Heck Hashirama stay on par with Madara? The Wood Jutsu can only get you so far and Madara was probably the most powerful Sharingan user. So how and why did a Wood user stay on par with Madara? Burn up all da wood with Amateresu and stuff.

YouTube video

Originally posted by dadudemon

And, how the Heck Hashirama stay on par with Madara? The Wood Jutsu can only get you so far and Madara was probably the most powerful Sharingan user. So how and why did a Wood user stay on par with Madara? Burn up all da wood with Amateresu and stuff.

I figure he was just good at everything- taijutsu, wood, earth, water. Also, one thing the elemental kekkei genkai have going for them, is they're strong, but don't seem to require as much chakra as amaterasu and similar so he can use them constantly as opposed to just as a trump card.

Also, controlling the biju is kinda nice. Maybe he brought them with him in fights.

Kento
In the 60 or so years that Konoha had been around before Kyuubi attacked what happened to the Uchiha who had MS when the clan joined the Senju? Why was Itachi the only one to have it when it was common back before the formation of Konoha, a village that may or may not be any older than Sarutobi.

What makes you think it was common?

I thought only Madara and his brother Izuna had it- my impression was it was quite rare to unlock.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, how the Heck Hashirama stay on par with Madara? The Wood Jutsu can only get you so far and Madara was probably the most powerful Sharingan user. So how and why did a Wood user stay on par with Madara? Burn up all da wood with Amateresu and stuff.

Originally posted by Q99
What makes you think it was common?

I thought only Madara and his brother Izuna had it- my impression was it was quite rare to unlock.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v42/c386/9.html

'Many sacrifices piled up over the course of our clans history.'

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v42/c386/13.html

'For decades the Uchiha killed their friends to get the Mangekyou Sharingan.'

Originally posted by Kento
I wonder something. In the 60 or so years that Konoha had been around before Kyuubi attacked what happened to the Uchiha who had MS when the clan joined the Senju? Why was Itachi the only one to have it when it was common back before the formation of Konoha, a village that may or may not be any older than Sarutobi. When Madara 'died' Shodai was controlling all the beast so I doubt they tried anything. Not to mention Madara disappeared after Konoha was formed so the Uchiha were following Shodai.

By that time, the Uchiha must have mellowed, and become less power-hungry. (They were infected by the Senju 😛)
Itachi probably got his MS some time after his loyalty shifted from the Uchiha to the rest of Konoha. He doesn't strike me as a person who is power hungry, but he must have needed the power of the MS after his defection.

Shodai died some time after, and he gifted the beasts to other countries as well. The Uchiha could have tried during that time.

Originally posted by Kento
Madara was the only one to get the final secret.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v42/c386/9.html

'Many sacrifices piled up over the course of our clans history.'

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v42/c386/13.html

'For decades the Uchiha killed their friends to get the Mangekyou Sharingan.'

Seems EMS was also somewhat common after Madara got his.
Madara was the one to unlock the final secret, but others were able to obtain EMS.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, how the Heck Hashirama stay on par with Madara? The Wood Jutsu can only get you so far and Madara was probably the most powerful Sharingan user. So how and why did a Wood user stay on par with Madara? Burn up all da wood with Amateresu and stuff.

You know, I really wish Kishi would show how that battle took place. It was quite clearly the greatest battle to take place in recent times. I think only Pein caused more destruction when he destroyed Konoha.

Originally posted by Q99
I figure he was just good at everything- taijutsu, wood, earth, water. Also, one thing the elemental kekkei genkai have going for them, is they're strong, but don't seem to require as much chakra as amaterasu and similar so he can use them constantly as opposed to just as a trump card.

Also, controlling the biju is kinda nice. Maybe he brought them with him in fights.

Yeah, but, how is controlling the Bijuu going to be a big deal when both can do it?

Obviously, Mr. Senju has the more powerful control...right?

Originally posted by Q99
What makes you think it was common?

I thought only Madara and his brother Izuna had it- my impression was it was quite rare to unlock.

I agree. it wasn't common. We can't assume that anyone has had it above and beyond who has had it.

In fact, even the stuff Kento quoted isn't direct evidence. They fought to get it, but it doesn't say that anyone got it above and beyond those that got it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
By that time, the Uchiha must have mellowed, and become less power-hungry. (They were infected by the Senju 😛)
Itachi probably got his MS some time after his loyalty shifted from the Uchiha to the rest of Konoha. He doesn't strike me as a person who is power hungry, but he must have needed the power of the MS after his defection.

Shodai died some time after, and he gifted the beasts to other countries as well. The Uchiha could have tried during that time.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Seems EMS was also somewhat common after Madara got his.
Madara was the one to unlock the final secret, but others were able to obtain EMS.