Here Mizukage basically says that if you have two basic natures, you can also use the advanced natures that combine them.
Originally posted by Q99
But we didn't see that many of 'em (3 or 4, I think?), and female ninja are a minority anyway, so that's not too surprising.Mikoto's listed as a jonin, so if she managed to make it that far in the Uchiha without a sharingan, that'd be pretty darn impressive, but I think it's more likely we just didn't see a situation where she had reason to activate it.
Yea, either that or a major mutation that tossed all that in exchange for easier usage/no special inherent jutsu. The differences are significant enough to be either one.
Hm... speaking of kekkei genkai that are likely not possessed by the sage or descended from ones that are, I have trouble picturing the sage with the Kaguya clan's bone jutsu.
True enough. Alternatively, it could be that Mikoto was never in an emotionally taxing situation, like Sasuke and the other Uchiha with Sharingans were.
Likely the mutation. The Byakugan having no connection whatsoever to the Rinn'egan is not something I seriously think is possible.
In addition to easier usage and lack of inherent jutsus tied to the eye itself, the Byakugan expanded on the visual capabilities of the Rinn'egan.
I still find it odd that Deva Path couldn't tell that the rocks surrounding him were Naruto's clones.
Also, speaking of the emotional activation thing, I find it odd that both Sasuke and Nagato are first shown activating their respective doujutsu when they find out that their parents are dead. Nagato and Sasuke also unconsciously activate it again when a friend is in danger. Coincidence? I think not. 313
I doubt people would have listened to him had they seen him ripping his spine out of his body to use as a sword. 😛 Shikotsumyaku was still a badass Kekkai Genkai though.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Here Mizukage basically says that if you have two basic natures, you can also use the advanced natures that combine them.
Mei could simply have the genetic traits to use Katon, Suiton & Doton, unlike Kakashi, who only has the genetic trait to use Raiton, yet uses Suiton & Doton.
Originally posted by NemeBro
To be honest those barely seem like Kekkai Genkai. 😐Why would you need to use genetics to combine two elements you already can use?
That's just the way it is. >__>
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/316/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/316/08/
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Mei could simply have the genetic traits to use Katon, Suiton & Doton, unlike Kakashi, who only has the genetic trait to use Raiton, yet uses Suiton & Doton.
Of note, Mizukage can use Fire + Water and Fire + Earth, but not Water + Earth.
So even having three affinities she only has two kekkei genkai combinations. So I'm not sure if the Rinnegan would allow the combinations even with provided affinities.
Hm, and we don't really have it confirmed whether Rinnegan granted elements are at affinity-level or normal you-can-learn-with-practice level.
(Minor sidenote: I had a brief dream of a Mizukage vs Diedara fight. He appeared to have the upper hand and blew her up, only for it to be a lava-clone and for her to emerge from a blob she spit earlier and got him from behind with acid)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Likely the mutation. The Byakugan having no connection whatsoever to the Rinn'egan is not something I seriously think is possible.
In addition to easier usage and lack of inherent jutsus tied to the eye itself, the Byakugan expanded on the visual capabilities of the Rinn'egan.
I still find it odd that Deva Path couldn't tell that the rocks surrounding him were Naruto's clones.
Yea. While some of the others seem like the could occur separately, eye jutsu are complex enough and similar enough to expect relation.
Also, speaking of the emotional activation thing, I find it odd that both Sasuke and Nagato are first shown activating their respective doujutsu when they find out that their parents are dead. Nagato and Sasuke also unconsciously activate it again when a friend is in danger. Coincidence? I think not. 313
Hm... Batman's a kekkei genkai?
I doubt people would have listened to him had they seen him ripping his spine out of his body to use as a sword. 😛 Shikotsumyaku was still a badass Kekkai Genkai though.
Agreed, at least in Kimimaro's hands.
Originally posted by King Kandy
If that were the case the Rinnegan wouldn't be powerful it would be "a good ninja with funny looking eyes".
It'd still be pretty darn powerful. Most jonin have two, even Kakashi has a mere 3, and I'd assume it'd be in addition to any normal affinities the ninja has and all the other effects of the rinnegan. That's incredible flexibility.
Personally I'd place my money on 'as easy to learn jutsu as an affinity, but no combos'.
Originally posted by Q99
It'd still be pretty darn powerful. Most jonin have two, even Kakashi has a mere 3, and I'd assume it'd be in addition to any normal affinities the ninja has and all the other effects of the rinnegan. That's incredible flexibility.Personally I'd place my money on 'as easy to learn jutsu as an affinity, but no combos'.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Jiraiya said Nagato had an affinity to all six elements... that's the description we got. You're just speculating in ways that aren't justified by the text.
Hm, I guess that does shoot down 'normal level', but that doesn't mean they can be comboed.
Again I'll point to Mizukage who can't do all the possible combos of her three affinities.
Yeah, that is curious. Like I said, this is an issue that is simply not fully defined in the manga. Mizukage seemed to be acting as if having multiple affinities were the cause of having advanced natures, rather than them being independent phenomena. But it is weird she can't do water/earth. Maybe she just couldn't figure it out.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I totally agree 100%. And that's my point. Someone with the rinnegan has the natural, genetic traits for all six elements. So they should be able to do all advanced elements as well.
Point.
Still, like Q99 pointed out, Mizukage could not use the Wood element, even though she probably had the necessary affinities.
EDIT: Actually, you could be right.
Yamato mentions that there is no such thing as a Wood Element to begin with, and that it is created when you use the two necessary elements at the same time. (The page before the two scans I posted)
Likely, having the genetic affinity for two elements will give you access to the combination, but it'll be something that you have to find out and learn how to use on your own or with help from someone.
If that is the case, a Rinn'egan user would in fact have access to all advanced natures. (barring Blaze Release, which requires Amaterasu)
But even a Rinn'egan user would be hard-pressed to learn how to manipulate every single combination. There are 5 elements, so that gives us 10 different combinations. (I don't think Yin/Yang can combine with another nature, but if it could, that would now give us 15 different combinations)
Originally posted by Q99
(Minor sidenote: I had a brief dream of a Mizukage vs Diedara fight. He appeared to have the upper hand and blew her up, only for it to be a lava-clone and for her to emerge from a blob she spit earlier and got him from behind with acid)
Forgive me, but I actually laughed, not directly at you of course.
Also, Deidara would beat Mizukage. uhuh
Originally posted by Q99
Hm... Batman's a kekkei genkai?
He does have white colorless eyes when wearing his mask. mmm
Originally posted by Q99
Agreed, at least in Kimimaro's hands.
Yep.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Was your point that he did not create Rasenshuriken? Yeah, that's highly probable, as I doubt he created the Rasengan instead of Minato. He could not have created every single jutsu in existence today.
Yes, that was my point.
It's far more likely that he didn't create hardly ANY jutsus that exist, than creating most of them.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Plot no jutsu has no bearing in what we're discussing. That's basic PIS, and PIS isn't a part of Naruto's actual skill-set. Otherwise, he'd beat opponents far more powerful than he is in KMC battles.
It does to. That's part of Naruto's basic powerset. It's not PIS as he was called a genius in his own way.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He would come up with a elemental Rasengan for each of the 5 primary nature types in the time Naruto took to create his Fuuton: Rasengan.
Completely baseless and there is no way to back that up.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Or is NemeBro right, and you were in fact being sarcastic in your earlier post? 😛
No. Not at all.
The Great Sage was just the founder and original Jinchurriki. He had loads of chakra and cool techniques, but they were straight-forward. (Like the gate sealing tech that held the Kyuubi down or the gravity abilities that created da moon.)
In a straight up fight, Naruto would lose to the Great Sage, probably, but that could be taking things too far as the Great Sage could be very crappy compared to modern ninjas. Remember, the next generation suprasses the previous. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, that was my point.It's far more likely that he didn't create hardly ANY jutsus that exist, than creating most of them.
Yeah, he created the foundation for ninjutsu. We also know that he created a jutsu that would form the jinchūriki system.
He also knew how to manipulate chakra, so it's highly likely he created jutsu, likely a fraction of the ones in use today as there are various Kekkai Genkais and what not.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It does to. That's part of Naruto's basic powerset. It's not PIS as he was called a genius in his own way.
Plot no jutsu is PIS.
Him mastering power-ups in a period of time faster than most people back one out is attributed to his determination, if you do not wish to attribute it to PIS.
If you want to argue that PIS is a part of his skill-set, then fine, I'll agree with you. Though PIS is typically not taken into account on KMC. biscuits
Originally posted by dadudemon
Completely baseless and there is no way to back that up.
You mean other than the fact that the Rinn'egan gives you access to all 6 natures (demonstrated by Nagato), and the fact that he has more chakra to use than Naruto ever will?
If he were alive currently, and were at his prime, yeah, he would. Naruto had to train for some time to learn how to manipulate his Wind natured chakra. The Sage would bypass that step. Then he'd have far more clones to use for his training as he knows how to use the Juubi's chakra. At the very least, he'd complete it far faster than Naruto ever could.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No. Not at all.The Great Sage was just the founder and original Jinchurriki. He had loads of chakra and cool techniques, but they were straight-forward. (Like the gate sealing tech that held the Kyuubi down or the gravity abilities that created da moon.)
In a straight up fight, Naruto would lose to the Great Sage, probably, but that could be taking things too far as the Great Sage could be very crappy compared to modern ninjas. Remember, the next generation suprasses the previous. 🙂
K, so NemeBro was wrong? Let's stuff that in his face then. 313
No one's surpassing the Sage, not right now anyway, since he's the jinchūriki of a beast that surpasses the Kyuubi.
Right now, because Naruto has learned how to control the portion of the Fox's power left to him, I'd say that Naruto is at least as powerful as Nagato. (Just a generalization)
Yet Nagato was a child compared to the Sage, who created the moon while near-death AFTER he divided the Juubi's chakras and dispersed them throughout the world.
Yeah, he created the moon while he likely was in a condition far worse than Sarutobi and the Tsuchikage were. Nagato could only create something that was exponentially smaller, and that required considerable strain on his part.
Creating the moon puts him on a level that is leagues beyond Naruto's current level. The Sage's Chibaku Tensei would stop Naruto in his tracks, easily I might add.