Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Point.Still, like Q99 pointed out, Mizukage could not use the Wood element, even though she probably had the necessary affinities.
EDIT: Actually, you could be right.
Yamato mentions that there is no such thing as a Wood Element to begin with, and that it is created when you use the two necessary elements at the same time. (The page before the two scans I posted)
Likely, having the genetic affinity for two elements will give you access to the combination, but it'll be something that you have to find out and learn how to use on your own or with help from someone.If that is the case, a Rinn'egan user would in fact have access to all advanced natures. (barring Blaze Release, which requires Amaterasu)
But even a Rinn'egan user would be hard-pressed to learn how to manipulate every single combination. There are 5 elements, so that gives us 10 different combinations. (I don't think Yin/Yang can combine with another nature, but if it could, that would now give us 15 different combinations)
Originally posted by King Kandy
My point exactly, I only ever said I thought the rinnegan granted advanced elements like ice.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Mei could simply have the genetic traits to use Katon, Suiton & Doton, unlike Kakashi, who only has the genetic trait to use Raiton, yet uses Suiton & Doton.That's just the way it is. >__>
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/316/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/316/08/
Originally posted by King Kandy
I totally agree 100%. And that's my point. Someone with the rinnegan has the natural, genetic traits for all six elements. So they should be able to do all advanced elements as well.
i don't think you guys understand it fully.
the key element to kekkei genkai in this case is the ability to weild an entirely new element. mei can use three, but she can also use two additional ones nobody else in the manga can (aside from the four tails).
rikkudou has all the elements, but mixing them is an entirely new thing here. electromagnetic, ice, wood, lava, acid mist, etc are special traits that occur in few ninja, and just like kakashi said, he cannot imitate them since it is beyond his nature to create those jutsu. his body cannot mold chackra that way on a genetic level.
the sage could most likely pwn in making a rasengan though, his chackra pool is insane as well as his chackra molding and control. i wouldn't be surprised if he could juggle rasengans.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i don't think you guys understand it fully.the key element to kekkei genkai in this case is the ability to weild an entirely new element. mei can use three, but she can also use two additional ones nobody else in the manga can (aside from the four tails).
rikkudou has all the elements, but mixing them is an entirely new thing here. electromagnetic, ice, wood, lava, acid mist, etc are special traits that occur in few ninja, and just like kakashi said, he cannot imitate them since it is beyond his nature to create those jutsu. his body cannot mold chackra that way on a genetic level.
the sage could most likely pwn in making a rasengan though, his chackra pool is insane as well as his chackra molding and control. i wouldn't be surprised if he could juggle rasengans.
We don't exactly know how this works on a genetic level as it hasn't been explained yet, but Yamato states that there is no such thing as a 'Wood' element. He then goes on to say that 'Wood' is brought about by using both 'Earth' & 'Water' at the same time. Similarly, 'Ice' is brought about by using 'Wind' & 'Water' at the same time, and so on and so forth.
When someone uses an Earth-style jutsu, they are performing nature transformation upon their chakra and converting it into a form suitable for Earth-style jutsu. Thus, when one uses a Wood-style jutsu, they convert their chakra into both Earth and Water, and use those two types of chakra at the same time to use a Wood-style jutsu.
That's the way I view it.
Currently, we don't know if the ability to use 'Wood' requires:
1. the genetic ability to use 'Earth' and 'Water', or
2. the genetic ability to use both 'Earth' and 'Water' at the same time, or
3. both 1. & 2.
Based on Mei Terumi's statement, it seems that having two elements would give one the ability to use their combination. Now, there are scores of ninja can use two elements, but their second element is usually learned, and hence, is not genetic. Thus, it seems that having the ability to use two elements on a genetic level would give one the ability to use their combination as well. This line of thinking agrees with the first scenario.
In the first scenario, the factor preventing someone from using 'Wood' would be knowledge & training. These two things are probably what prevent Mei Terumi from using 'Wood' even though she can already use 'Earth' & 'Water'. Alternatively, it could be that Mei Terumi simply lacks the genetic ability to use both 'Earth' & 'Water' at the same time. In which case, we move onto scenario 2.
In the second scenario, a potential user of 'Wood' would not be able to use 'Wood' jutsu until he/she is able to use both 'Earth' & 'Water'. Due to this, a potential user of 'Wood' could go their entire lives without ever using 'Wood'. Now this seems rather arbitrary, because if the second scenario were the actual one, then a person that could use 'Fire' on a genetic level could also be able to use 'Wood', despite 'Fire' having nothing to do with 'Wood'.
If it were the third scenario, then the only factor that would prevent someone from using 'Wood' would be again, knowledge & training.
The Sharingan cannot copy techniques that require a Kekkai Genkai. It has nothing to do with Kakashi's genes.
Ok, something I want to bring up: Total transformation jutsu. That is, Konan's and Suigetsu's abilities.
Are these kekkei genkai, or otherwise requiring heavily specialized chakra?
They're really powerful and useful, but even S-class ninja with lots of jutsu don't really have their own versions. The transformations also seem to come pretty automatically to the users.
It's obviously a rare ability to be able to turn into paper/water (possessed only by an S-class and a... hm, A+? class ninja respectively), but we've yet to see someone really comment on it too much.
Originally posted by Q99
Ok, something I want to bring up: Total transformation jutsu. That is, Konan's and Suigetsu's abilities.Are these kekkei genkai, or otherwise requiring heavily specialized chakra?
They're really powerful and useful, but even S-class ninja with lots of jutsu don't really have their own versions. The transformations also seem to come pretty automatically to the users.
It's obviously a rare ability to be able to turn into paper/water (possessed only by an S-class and a... hm, A+? class ninja respectively), but we've yet to see someone really comment on it too much.
On a roleplaying forum I go to, his abilities count as a kekke genkai.
... =D
I don't consider them "jutsu", though. Suigetsu is in that form 24/7, I.E. permemently. If it took chakra to maintain the form then he woould tire out and have to revert back to his original form, me thinks.
Not sure about Konan, though.
Total transformation due to something done to their bodies... that makes sense.
Perhaps it's not the most common route to power due to requiring a lot of specialization (both users don't use much except jutsu related to their transformation) while being still super-hard to pull off (not many ninja weaker than Suigetsu or Konan could take it, perhaps).
Suigetsu is constantly drinking water, and seems to tire moar easily when exerting himself (Carrying Zabuza's sword), so I am guessing if not chakra, mantaining the form requires him to keep his liquid intake high or something like that, and the more he exerts himself, the harder it is to mantain his form.
Spoiler:
first part of the incident 16 years agohiruzen calls for evacuation after tuxedo mask summons the nine-tails
(gai and kakashi were horsing around prior to the attack lol)
-------------------the fight----------------
minato stands on top of the hokage rushmore cliff thing as the kyuubi goes berserk and fires a huge chackra sphere at him. minato uses some sort of time/space shield and deflects it.
mask dude appears behind minato but minato i guess senses it and turns to punch him but he phases to avoid it. minato uses the flying god move but maskey follows him, then minato asks if he's fighting madara but the guy stays silent.
masky uses some chains to tie up minato but he uses flying thundergod and escapes, and upon his destination he flawlessly throws a kunai at masky, but of coarse he phases.....but...minato uses flying thundergod again and appears right behind him as the special junai passes through with a resengan in hand. he says something to the effect of [this is hiraishin level two] 😐
itachi is w/ sasuke (who is balling), chouza, and shikaku are watching from afar.
Damn Kishimoto. For having given us such a short chapter in the middle of what should be an epic fight. Damn him.
Also, when I first saw Gai in this chapter, I swear I thought it was Lee for a fleeting second.
Originally posted by Q99
Another new fact:Spoiler:
Minato refers to the 2nd Hokage as having great space-time jutsu too. Tobirama seems to have been quite the varied sort- water jutsu, resurrection jutsu, and time-space jutsu.
Tobirama never used his Space-Time ninjutsu against Sarutobi. Guess they weren't really fighting at full strength against Sarutobi.
The Hokage in general seem to be impressive even by Kage standards. The 'weakest' is probably Tsunade, who's strategic contributions were viewed as decisive in the second ninja world war.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Tobirama never used his Space-Time ninjutsu against Sarutobi. Guess they weren't really fighting at full strength against Sarutobi.
Well, if it's like Minato's barrier, I can see why he'd use water instead. Hiruzen never used a jutsu that'd be best dealt with by that kind of response, and water's likely easier and more flexible for Tobirama.
Hm... Tobirama. Tobi. Time-space jutsu master.
"Madara" is the second Hokage, not Madara Uchiha. He stole the original Madara's eye, and after his apparent death in the Danzo flashback (which he escaped from), he implanted it.