Neither of those puts him anywhere near closer to obtaining the means to preform all Jutsu. In fact, if all he did was create those techniques, he should have been spending that time learning the techniques that already existed. Though making the Sound Village was intelligent in it's own right(though it apparently fell out of existence). The Hydra thing was likely only due to him experimenting on his body to the extreme and I doubt it existed before.
I don't think his goal was purely just to learn all jutsu, I mean lets be honest if he learned every single jutsu in existence, a lot of them are probably going to suck. He was learning all jutsu, as Sasuke put it, to try and "discover the meaning of it all". The fact that he created his own jutsu, to him, probably was a sign of how much theoretical understanding he had of chakra and jutsu. He tried to take a more scientific approach to jutsu instead of just using techniques passed down from his clan, or modifying techniques he had learned from others.
Originally posted by Kento
No, no I didn't. Cause I keep forgetting his name is Yamato not Yamamoto anyway. lol
Dang Kubo and Kishi! 😠
Originally posted by Kento
Or it could be the simple matter of, I need a new body, and I want those eyes. Two things for the price of one. lol
I forgot who but someone did mention that it would sky-rocket his goal of jutsu mastery. So, it was kind of a big priority for him.
Originally posted by Kento
Neither did Sarutobi. Both had a huge array of jutsu that wasn't shown. But we've never seen Oro use jutsu much. Something always stops him. Like not having arms, or not trying. If Oro and Saru had both been one-on-one that battle could have been awesome with all the jutsu they know.
Might have been but I would think that Oro was better because he was the Naruto/Minato of his generation. Sarutobi said that he was the 'once in a generation' ninja of his generation.
So, it goes like this, from oldest to youngest, of the genius' of their generations:
Sarutobi (hands down, better than any ninja from any nation in his generation, when he was prime (30s)). Next up, Oro, by word of Sarutobi. After that, Minato, hands down, easily. After that, Naruto...but it's not "easily." Outside the anime, it is difficult to say who is the "genius" of Naruto's Gen. I'd say it's Naruto because that's what the anime said...and also Naruto is probably the strongest character, by far, outside of cheating eye techniques.
Originally posted by Kento
And what would stop them from reforming? Saru blew up part of them and it didn't do anything.
I would think the vaporizing them would destroy them.
Konohamaru?
Naruto's the strongest but not really through the 'genius' route.
Also between Minato and current, you have Itachi.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't think his goal was purely just to learn all jutsu, I mean lets be honest if he learned every single jutsu in existence, a lot of them are probably going to suck. He was learning all jutsu, as Sasuke put it, to try and "discover the meaning of it all". The fact that he created his own jutsu, to him, probably was a sign of how much theoretical understanding he had of chakra and jutsu. He tried to take a more scientific approach to jutsu instead of just using techniques passed down from his clan, or modifying techniques he had learned from others.
Yes, that kind of thing.
Originally posted by Q99
Konohamaru?Naruto's the strongest but not really through the 'genius' route.
Also between Minato and current, you have Itachi.
Nah, Kono is not as "smart" as Naruto. It took him 2-3 years to master rasengan and it took Naruto 1-2 weeks. That's the difference in power. 😄
Excuse me, but is my Naruto fanboyism showing? teehee
I wouldn't say that Itachi is the "genius" of the once in a generation type. Kakshi is further up than Itachi, in that regard. Itachi and Kisame would have bitten the dust against Jiraiya and Naruto is said to have surpassed both Jiraiya and Minato. Itachi wasn't the end all be all, IMO. He would have fallen, easily, to Pain, IMO. (Unless he busted out Susano'o uber fast)
Originally posted by Bentley
Pein at the height of his powers would've stomped Naruto though.
And Naruto at the height of his knowledge of Pain's powers/secret would have stomped Pain.
Naruto resisted the almighty push would no one had done before. That same push broke all the bones in an absurdly large toad. (bunta) Naruto could have just taken a chakra rod, found pain, and supa dupa fast ran and found pain. Thrown a rasenshuriken at pain's spot, and, ding, fries are done.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, Kono is not as "smart" as Naruto. It took him 2-3 years to master rasengan and it took Naruto 1-2 weeks. That's the difference in power. 😄
But Konohamaru's several years younger, he wasn't even a graduate when Naruto showed it to him, and even now he's about a year younger than when Naruto was learning shadow clones.
I'd also bet Konohamaru's going to learn a range of jutsu better.
I wouldn't say that Itachi is the "genius" of the once in a generation type. Kakshi is further up than Itachi, in that regard. Itachi and Kisame would have bitten the dust against Jiraiya and Naruto is said to have surpassed both Jiraiya and Minato. Itachi wasn't the end all be all, IMO. He would have fallen, easily, to Pain, IMO. (Unless he busted out Susano'o uber fast)
But Naruto has kyuubi, and masses of basic chakra besides that they don't. Itachi I think would've been able to at least take out many of the bodies (and Kisame said Itachi might be ok with fighting Jiraiya, but he wouldn't).
Kakashi's pretty genius but Itachi started later and still surpassed him.
Originally posted by Q99
But Konohamaru's several years younger, he wasn't even a graduate when Naruto showed it to him, and even now he's about a year younger than when Naruto was learning shadow clones.I'd also bet Konohamaru's going to learn a range of jutsu better.
Age doesn't matter as Naruto was a moron when it came to Jutsu's. Kono not only is not an idiot, he has had special tutoring/training. Also, all the concept of Naruto's mastery of the rasengan were taught to Naruto right then and there so it wouldn't have mattered what age Naruto was when he learned it, same with Kono.
It really does boil down to who mastered the jutsu faster and that was Naruto by leaps and bounds. 🙂
In fact, I think that Naruto was further behind the "chakra knowledge" curve than Kono because Jiraiya had to teach Naruto very basic stuff about chakra molding before he could even move onto the tech.
Originally posted by Q99
But Naruto has kyuubi, and masses of basic chakra besides that they don't. Itachi I think would've been able to at least take out many of the bodies (and Kisame said Itachi might be ok with fighting Jiraiya, but he wouldn't).
Even without the beast, Naruto still has massive amounts of chakra. He's an Uzumaki. Despite what Kento thinks ( 😛 ), naruto had to train for many many hours with shadow clones to become exhausted enough to use the kyuubi's chakra for his summoning training. As for your Kisame thing, it was both. I don't know where the idea came from that Itachi could have survived. Were it not for Amaterasu, they would have died, the both of them.
Originally posted by Q99
Kakashi's pretty genius but Itachi started later and still surpassed him.
Don't confuse genius for a simple hax kekkei genkai. Remove Itachi's eyes and give him regular ones. What do we have left?
Kakashi was inventing S-class techniques at Naruto's age and was a Jounin as Kono's age. lol! That's WITHOUT a sharingan which Itachi had. Who do you think is the bigger genius? 😄
Originally posted by dadudemonpein used a shitload of chackra prior to the naruto fight though, and the always mentioned holding back cause he was on a snatch n grab mission makes it imo hard to tell who would truly win.
And Naruto at the height of his knowledge of Pain's powers/secret would have stomped Pain.Naruto resisted the almighty push would no one had done before. That same push broke all the bones in an absurdly large toad. (bunta) Naruto could have just taken a chakra rod, found pain, and supa dupa fast ran and found pain. Thrown a rasenshuriken at pain's spot, and, ding, fries are done.
well.....pein did actually kick the shit out of naruto, and had him dead to rights.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Don't confuse genius for a simple hax kekkei genkai. Remove Itachi's eyes and give him regular ones. What do we have left?
A master of genjutsu possessing powerful fire and water jutsu and an expert at taijutsu and thrown projectiles, as well as one of the fastest characters around.
Consider the level of genjutsu he put on Naruto with a finger. No sharingan hax, simply learned conventional hax.
Kakashi was inventing S-class techniques at Naruto's age and was a Jounin as Kono's age. lol! That's WITHOUT a sharingan which Itachi had. Who do you think is the bigger genius? 😄
And Itachi was ANBU captain at Naruto's age. Sure, he had a sharingan, but it was just a basic one at that point.
I think it's safe to say "they're both incredibly talented."
Even without the beast, Naruto still has massive amounts of chakra.
Yea, I mentioned that. That's as much a non-genius advantage as sharingan is, is my point.
Originally posted by Q99
A master of genjutsu possessing powerful fire and water jutsu and an expert at taijutsu and thrown projectiles, as well as one of the fastest characters around.
He is certainly awesome at genjutsu.
Buuuut...that's just about the only thing that would stand out (for the top tiers) after his eyes are gone.
Remove his sharingan eyes (and give him regular ones) and his taijutsu gets a massive downgrade. 🙂
Originally posted by Q99
Consider the level of genjutsu he put on Naruto with a finger. No sharingan hax, simply learned conventional hax.
I think his brain is his biggest asset, outside of his eyes...that's my opinion.
But, yes, he is awesome at genjutsu.
Originally posted by Q99
And Itachi was ANBU captain at Naruto's age. Sure, he had a sharingan, but it was just a basic one at that point.
O rly?
Remove his sharingan ability and he's an above average ninja.
Originally posted by Q99
I think it's safe to say "they're both incredibly talented."
I don't. I think only Kakashi is incredibly talented. Itachi is not anywhere near an S-class ninja without his sharingan. He's very smart and has excellent genjutsu...but is not S-Class.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
pein used a shitload of chackra prior to the naruto fight though, and the always mentioned holding back cause he was on a snatch n grab mission makes it imo hard to tell who would truly win.well.....pein did actually kick the shit out of naruto, and had him dead to rights.
I only remember it only being mentioned once: that he couldn't kill Naruto.
Naruto got the treament as everyone else, though...in fact, it was much harsher so the argument that he was holding back is kind of flawed.
Originally posted by dadudemon
He is certainly awesome at genjutsu.Buuuut...that's just about the only thing that would stand out (for the top tiers) after his eyes are gone.
Remove his sharingan eyes (and give him regular ones) and his taijutsu gets a massive downgrade. 🙂
Not that massive. By databooks, he's got a 5 in it and a 5 in speed. He's done what Sasuke did with Lee's taijutsu, but longer and better.
Itachi's not that reliant on sharingan, I'm reminded of the kunai throw tricks he pulled to hit targets outside his line of sight.
I think his brain is his biggest asset, outside of his eyes...that's my opinion.
I'll agree to that 🙂
Remove his sharingan ability and he's an above average ninja.
More than above-average. He deploys powerful high rank jutsu very quickly and smartly, remember, say, the water drills he attacked Kakashi with. Not many people would be quick enough to judge it right and block, according to Kakashi.
He also has tricks like the clone bomb too.
I don't. I think only Kakashi is incredibly talented. Itachi is not anywhere near an S-class ninja without his sharingan. He's very smart and has excellent genjutsu...but is not S-Class.
Would Kakashi be S-class without his?
I think at the least without their sharingans, they'd both be some of the higher jonin around and probably low-S, but their sharingans help both a lot (Kakashi needs his to best use his home-grown S-class jutsu, plus kamui and the various tricks he pulled on Zabuza).
Sans sharingan, they'd both be very varied intelligent ninja. Kakashi's got more elemental jutsu, Itachi's better at genjutsu and projectiles, but their arsenals aren't dissimilar in threat or variety without the eyes.
Itachi has demonstrated to have possibly the quickes hands in the entire series, being able to form handseals so fast Kakashi with his Sharingan could not even see them, along with being quick himself.
Itachi is also very skilled at Genjutsu, Sharingan or no, and at least moderately skilled at Taijutsu, and his Ninjutsu is not bad.
Originally posted by Q99
Not that massive. By databooks, he's got a 5 in it and a 5 in speed. He's done what Sasuke did with Lee's taijutsu, but longer and better.Itachi's not that reliant on sharingan, I'm reminded of the kunai throw tricks he pulled to hit targets outside his line of sight.
He used a sharingan for that kunai trick.
And, Itachi's taijutsu goes way down without his sharingan. His speed, however, can remain the same, but it does take a hit for combat.
Originally posted by Q99
I'll agree to that 🙂
LOL! AHA! We found middle ground.
Originally posted by Q99
More than above-average. He deploys powerful high rank jutsu very quickly and smartly, remember, say, the water drills he attacked Kakashi with. Not many people would be quick enough to judge it right and block, according to Kakashi.He also has tricks like the clone bomb too.
Like I said, Itachi is very smart. But the 'once in a generation' comment is about ninja ability/mastery.
Originally posted by Q99
Would Kakashi be S-class without his?]
Yup because he created an S-class jutsu. 🙂 Completely brand new stuff, main. 😄
He had speed and a new super jutsu. A jutsu that was useless unless he had a sharingan (because at that speed, it's impossible to be able to react in time...which is why I say Itachi's speed takes a hit without his eyes. 😄)
Originally posted by Q99
[B]I think at the least without their sharingans, they'd both be some of the higher jonin around and probably low-S, but their sharingans help both a lot (Kakashi needs his to best use his home-grown S-class jutsu, plus kamui and the various tricks he pulled on Zabuza).
I don't think they'd be S-class material...cept for Kakashi. Kakashi's dad was one of the most powerful (kage level) and Kakashi is supposed to have surpassed him.
Originally posted by Q99
Sans sharingan, they'd both be very varied intelligent ninja. Kakashi's got more elemental jutsu, Itachi's better at genjutsu and projectiles, but their arsenals aren't dissimilar in threat or variety without the eyes.
But, take away Kakashi's sharingan and he doesn't know as many jutsus. But, he still has his S-class stuff. 😄
Originally posted by NemeBro
[B]Itachi has demonstrated to have possibly the quickes hands in the entire series, being able to form handseals so fast Kakashi with his Sharingan could not even see them, along with being quick himself.Itachi is also very skilled at Genjutsu, Sharingan or no, and at least moderately skilled at Taijutsu, and his Ninjutsu is not bad. [/Ba]
IMO, that as a "technique" specifically developed by Itachi to counter the sharingan's eye copy technique. Something that Madara probably taught him to be able to beat down his entire people. I wouldn't call it a speed as much as I would call it an actual jutsu/technique.
Originally posted by dadudemon😆 I more confuse it with whoever does Katekyo Hitman Reborn..cause I don't read Bleach....Didn't even know there was a guy in Bleach named that lol.
Dang Kubo and Kishi! 😠I forgot who but someone did mention that it would sky-rocket his goal of jutsu mastery. So, it was kind of a big priority for him.
Might have been but I would think that Oro was better because he was the Naruto/Minato of his generation. Sarutobi said that he was the 'once in a generation' ninja of his generation.
So, it goes like this, from oldest to youngest, of the genius' of their generations:
Sarutobi (hands down, better than any ninja from any nation in his generation, when he was prime (30s)). Next up, Oro, by word of Sarutobi. After that, Minato, hands down, easily. After that, Naruto...but it's not "easily." Outside the anime, it is difficult to say who is the "genius" of Naruto's Gen. I'd say it's Naruto because that's what the anime said...and also Naruto is probably the strongest character, by far, outside of cheating eye techniques.
I would think the vaporizing them would destroy them.
True.
I don't know. Saru isn't one to underestimate. He's probably a lot smarter than Oro when it comes to tactics, and stuff.
Eh, as said Itachi would be after Minato, and then in Naruto's generation.... Neji or Sasuke would be the ones debated on. Naruto isn't a genius. He just has stamina to overcome anything. He can do things others can't because of Kyuubi. He is still not close to being great at chakra control.
There is no proof either way. So not gonna argue that lol.
Originally posted by dadudemonYou can call it Bojangles Dickmunch all you like, it has never been listed as a specific technique/jutsu, nor implied to be. It is a technique the same way a punch is a technique.
IMO, that as a "technique" specifically developed by Itachi to counter the sharingan's eye copy technique. Something that Madara probably taught him to be able to beat down his entire people. I wouldn't call it a speed as much as I would call it an actual jutsu/technique.
Also, Chidori is an A class Jutsu. He did not invent Raikiri until much later.