The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Hanabi could smack around opponents? The only one I've seen her smacking around was Hinata. Granted, she'll still be strong due to her father's training, but that in no way implies she's incredibly talented.

At a much younger age- Hinata's still not exactly bad at taijutsu by most standards, but to beat her already, with a lot less strength? That's major talent.

She's still younger than Konohamaru after all. Even if he's done more impressive stuff, Hanabi's got time to catch up.

Meanwhile, Konohamaru was as much a slacker as Naruto & Shikamaru, but nothing points to him gaining those A-level techs through hard work alone rather than talent.
If anything, he shouldn't have been able to learn the Shadow Clone technique at his age, much less the Rasengan at 9.

11-12, but yea, serious talent there, it's incredible to do that without Uzumaki chakra.

Hanabi is allegedly stronger than Hinata, but weaker than Neji.

Neji is a nobody. He's been a nobody since he beat that guy from the Sound Four.

He's not even worth being brought up in the same sentence as Sasuke or Naruto.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, genius is genius. srugThough yeah, as far as natural talent goes, only Sasuke and Neji are noteworthy in the current generation. Itachi has them beat by leaps and bounds if we include him.

Hanabi could smack around opponents? The only one I've seen her smacking around was Hinata. Granted, she'll still be strong due to her father's training, but that in no way implies she's incredibly talented.

Meanwhile, Konohamaru was as much a slacker as Naruto & Shikamaru, but nothing points to him gaining those A-level techs through hard work alone rather than talent.
If anything, he shouldn't have been able to learn the Shadow Clone technique at his age, much less the Rasengan at 9. Both of which put him above Hanabi in the talent department, seeing as we haven't really seen anything spectacular from Hanabi.

If we include the Sand Siblings, how far would they rank in comparison to the Konoha 12? 😛

Hinata was a 5 years older than her. Also, in the anime they showed a little bit of Hanabi and Hinata fighting. Hinata seemed to be around 9 to 10, which would make Hanabi very young to be able to fight and defeat her older sibling.

Konohamaru didn't show much talent before he started working hard.

Hanabi has at least been known to be talented at a young age and it stayed consistent(Nothing's been seen to disprove it). Konohamaru mastered quite a few good moves, but it's never established when exactly he learned them(Naruto taught him the rasengan before the timeskip and Konohamaru likely only recently managed to get it right).

Also, Q99, Hanabi is only like a year younger than Konohamaru.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hmmm...

Wouldn't that be more of a case of being used to Zabuza and adpating?

NemeBro

Neji is a nobody. He's been a nobody since he beat that guy from the Sound Four.

Making Jonin at his age is still impressive. He's not Sasuke/Naruto strong, but is well earning of 'genius' strong in my book.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If we include the Sand Siblings, how far would they rank in comparison to the Konoha 12? 😛

Well, they're older by a few years, but stronger than most of the 11 and according to the stats, keep advancing at solid pace (we haven't seen them fight much post-timeskip, though from what little we've seen Temari's precision has gone up and Kankuro has better puppets, at the least). So not quite as 'genius,' as the ones we've been talking about, but probably a bit more so than most of the 11, extremely talented individuals.

Hinata was a 5 years older than her. Also, in the anime they showed a little bit of Hanabi and Hinata fighting. Hinata seemed to be around 9 to 10, which would make Hanabi very young to be able to fight and defeat her older sibling.

Konohamaru didn't show much talent before he started working hard.

Hanabi has at least been known to be talented at a young age and it stayed consistent(Nothing's been seen to disprove it). Konohamaru mastered quite a few good moves, but it's never established when exactly he learned them(Naruto taught him the rasengan before the timeskip and Konohamaru likely only recently managed to get it right).

Also, Q99, Hanabi is only like a year younger than Konohamaru.

Officially Hanabi's 7 pre time skip, Konohamaru's 8-9... a bit closer than I thought, but still, Hanabi at 7 was more impressive than Konohamaru at 8-9, and she's still got a year or two to catch up with him.

Originally posted by Kento
What would being use to Zabuza really accomplish without getting stronger when that same clone would've killed him first time around?

Being used to his "moves"/attacks makes it much easier to predict, especially after they can replay the events, multiple times, in their head, and have "mock" sessions in their minds on how to react in the future. That's shinobi rule #24: learn from your opponents and adapt to succeed in the mission.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If we include the Sand Siblings, how far would they rank in comparison to the Konoha 12? 😛

Hinata was a 5 years older than her. Also, in the anime they showed a little bit of Hanabi and Hinata fighting. Hinata seemed to be around 9 to 10, which would make Hanabi very young to be able to fight and defeat her older sibling.

Konohamaru didn't show much talent before he started working hard.

Hanabi has at least been known to be talented at a young age and it stayed consistent(Nothing's been seen to disprove it). Konohamaru mastered quite a few good moves, but it's never established when exactly he learned them(Naruto taught him the rasengan before the timeskip and Konohamaru likely only recently managed to get it right).

Also, Q99, Hanabi is only like a year younger than Konohamaru.

All three would be below Sasuke & Neji. 313
Srsly though, I'd say Kankuro and Temari are at least Sakura level right now. In terms of genius, Temari is probably as intelligent as and a better tactician than Kakashi.

While that is impressive, Hinata was rather weak at the age of 10-12. She wouldn't fight Neji until Naruto egged her on. I doubt she'd fight back against her younger sister.
Meanwhile, you have Konohamaru defeating a Path of Pain, something Ebisu couldn't do.

Could be that he was just slacking off or did not like to learn from the likes of Ebisu. After all, Naruto is probably the only person who impressed him in Pt 1.
Also, Konohamaru hasn't demonstrated any attributes like Lee's insane training drive, or Naruto's incredible stamina and determination. IMO, it was simply his talent that enabled him to master Rasengan.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hanabi is allegedly stronger than Hinata, but weaker than Neji.

Neji is a nobody. He's been a nobody since he beat that guy from the Sound Four.

He's not even worth being brought up in the same sentence as Sasuke or Naruto.

She has more talent than Hinata, but less than Neji. Most other Hyuuga would be stronger than Hinata, but weaker than Neji. Hiashi's probably the only Hyuuga who could be stronger than Neji, and even then, Neji has the potential to surpass him.

Originally posted by Q99
At a much younger age- Hinata's still not exactly bad at taijutsu by most standards, but to beat her already, with a lot less strength? That's major talent.

She's still younger than Konohamaru after all. Even if he's done more impressive stuff, Hanabi's got time to catch up.

11-12, but yea, serious talent there, it's incredible to do that without Uzumaki chakra.

Consider this: Hinata had reservations about fighting Neji until Naruto egged her. Why would she seriously fight her younger sister?

Assuming she actually will catch up.
Konohamaru still demonstrates more natural talent than Hanabi does right now though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Being used to his "moves"/attacks makes it much easier to predict, especially after they can replay the events, multiple times, in their head, and have "mock" sessions in their minds on how to react in the future. That's shinobi rule #24: learn from your opponents and adapt to succeed in the mission.

You know..I have to stop trying to argue for Sasuke. I don't like it. lol
.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
All three would be below Sasuke & Neji. 313
.

Even though they say 'water clones are 1/10th,' I do get the impression the first one was quite a bit more and/or the next batch was less.

Sasuke could beat Neji with his pinky at this point.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
All three would be below Sasuke & Neji. 313
Srsly though, I'd say Kankuro and Temari are at least Sakura level right now. In terms of genius, Temari is probably as intelligent as and a better tactician than Kakashi.

While that is impressive, Hinata was rather weak at the age of 10-12. She wouldn't fight Neji until Naruto egged her on. I doubt she'd fight back against her younger sister.
Meanwhile, you have Konohamaru defeating a Path of Pain, something Ebisu couldn't do.

Could be that he was just slacking off or did not like to learn from the likes of Ebisu. After all, Naruto is probably the only person who impressed him in Pt 1.
Also, Konohamaru hasn't demonstrated any attributes like Lee's insane training drive, or Naruto's incredible stamina and determination. IMO, it was simply his talent that enabled him to master Rasengan

Gaara gets high points for becoming Kage and keeping the position after losing his status as a host. Where's he go?

Not necessarily. The little sparring took place in front of her Father, which might have given Hinata at least some drive to fight. The Pain thing I consider impressive, but only because of how he used the clone to establish Pain's abilities.

Or, he couldn't transform well and thus did it badly. Later he managed to do it well. And the reason I attribute his skill to hard work rather than talent is 1. He learned how to do the rasengan in part 1, and when he finally does it he needs a clone to help him with it. 2. Apparently, he'd only recently managed to make the clone jutsu wok, or at least that's the impression Naruto gives here. Which means it took him roughly 3 yeas to make the techniques work well.

Oh Hinata > Hanabi, she lost one fight against her(training basically) and people think her non existant sister is stronger than her despite Hinata being a chunnin, older, the true heir and like Naruto and Lee underdogs who have benchmarks to surpass.

Kishimoto knows Hinata is destined to be stronger than her sister and father as simply she's a hardworking loser like Naruto and will one day become a success and prove her clan wrong.

Hinata's a Hyuuga. Kishimoto doesn't care about them so Hinata's not destined to be anything.

Spoiler:
Except the wife of Naruto

Originally posted by Kento
Not being able to react to one and then after training taking out six before they can react is a bit more than 'being used to'....

You know..I have to stop trying to argue for Sasuke. I don't like it. lol
. 😛 Soon I'll have you seeing just how superior Neji is to all but a certain few.

Didn't Sasuke and Naruto "hesitate" the first time? Weren't the scared?

Second time, they went after it, right?

Originally posted by killermover
Oh Hinata > Hanabi, she lost one fight against her(training basically) and people think her non existant sister is stronger than her despite Hinata being a chunnin, older, the true heir and like Naruto and Lee underdogs who have benchmarks to surpass.

Kishimoto knows Hinata is destined to be stronger than her sister and father as simply she's a hardworking loser like Naruto and will one day become a success and prove her clan wrong.

Seriously, you have issues dude. Deep, deep issues.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Didn't Sasuke and Naruto "hesitate" the first time? Weren't the scared?

Second time, they went after it, right?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Seriously, you have issues dude. Deep, deep issues.

LOL!

Originally posted by Kento
It was when they did the Windmill Shuriken that Zabuza attacked. They'd got pass their fear. Naruto and Sasuke both got over it around the time Kakashi got captured, so that they could save him.

Then, they learned tons of stuff about the water clones, still got pwned. Next time around, they knew lots more. They were already fast enough, but, this time, they could dodge knowing before hand the clones actions.

🙂

Also, wasn't I arguing bunches of stuff with people, earlier, in this thread? I don't remember where we were...

Naruto is "once in a generation" genius, in the anime only.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Then, they learned tons of stuff about the water clones, still got pwned. Next time around, they knew lots more. They were already fast enough, but, this time, they could dodge knowing before hand the clones actions.

🙂

Originally posted by Kento
What proof is there that they were ever fast enough before the training?

What proof is there that they were too slow before the training?

What proof is there that they improved in speed after the training?

The training wasn't speed, at all: it was sticking to stuff.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke taking six out before they can move compared to not being able to block or dodge against one kinda proves them getting faster. Knowing somebody doesn't suddenly mean you'll get fast enough to do anything. They knew how Zabuza fought but they sure as heck weren't going to be able to do anything against him even though they got faster.

Nah. It proves that there was a plot element that had Sasuke destroying them. To me, that indicates that they were more prepared. What proof is there that those clones were even remotely as fast as Zabuza?

Originally posted by dadudemon
What proof is there that they were too slow before the training?

What proof is there that they improved in speed after the training?

The training wasn't speed, at all: it was sticking to stuff.

Nah. It proves that there was a plot element that had Sasuke destroying them. To me, that indicates that they were more prepared. What proof is there that those clones were even remotely as fast as Zabuza?

The training was to make them stronger, to make them more efficient at chakra control, and to up their stamina. All of which make a ninja stronger.

Nobody said they were as fast as Zabuza. Just pointing out the fact being more prepared for something doesn't make them able to win. And the fact that Sasuke went from being unable to react to moving faster than the clones can react means he got faster not that he was better prepared. He was beaten by a clone the first time, and kills the clone the next time. That kinda indicates getting stronger, and better since last time.