The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i agree with kento

the hyuuga come of being strong as shit on average, the uchiha just have far more powerful individuals, but just a handful of them

Have we ever seen a weak Hyuuga? Even Hinata got further in her fight against the strongest Pain body than every single Ninja including Kakashi. 🙂

Think about it.

However, we have seen lots of week Uchiha. Uchiha so weak that Itachi could masacre the whole village. It would seem that Uchiha are relitively weak and if it weren't for their eyes, they'd be fodder. Remove the Hyugas eyes, and I could see the same. (LOL, my pun.)

Edit - Scratch that: Hinata didn't actually land a blow in the manga...that was in the anime, only. So, Kakashi did better than Hinata.

a long awaited fight on the horizon happening sooner than expected!

Spoiler:
long story short....

kabuto's version of edo tensei has a better kunai seal that doesn't kill the memories nor personality of the revived and uses it on deidara cause he doesn't fully understand his art (normally he would try to deaden their personality, but deidara was the exception), so deidara acts as he usual would.

tsuchikage and his student finds and attacks kabuto and deidara, but both teams have clay bunshins and whatnot.

kabuto previously created a new manda from cells he had that was bigger and stronger than the original, and it bites the tail of the giant tortoise naruto and co. are on and it makes a loud noise alerting kabuto to its location. he and deidara go after it with tsuchikage folowing.

deidara makes a jellyfish explosive and wants to detonate it under the tortoise (he says he has a settle to score) but tsuchikage gets mad and deidara gets a bit worried cause he remembers something from the past when he got angry before (he must have kicked deidara's ass or something). oonoki focuses some sort of energy in his hands that are in a sign shape (like tienshinhan from dbz or celo)
and his arteries under the skin on his hands are raised.

next chapter is tsuchikage "the strongest old nin" in a rage!

shit's about to go down son

Originally posted by dadudemon
Have we ever seen a weak Hyuuga? Even Hinata got further in her fight against the strongest Pain body than every single Ninja including Kakashi. 🙂

Think about it.

However, we have seen lots of week Uchiha. Uchiha so weak that Itachi could masacre the whole village. It would seem that Uchiha are relitively weak and if it weren't for their eyes, they'd be fodder. Remove the Hyugas eyes, and I could see the same. (LOL, my pun.)

Edit - Scratch that: Hinata didn't actually land a blow in the manga...that was in the anime, only. So, Kakashi did better than Hinata.

activating their sharingan period is a kind of a big deal for the uchiha and not all have theirs, and none besides itachi (and the hidden madara) had the mangekyo at the time, meaning the most they could have had was three tomoe. the hyuuga just have to learn gentle fist in concert with their byakugan (which they all have since birth) to own anthing that breathes....heck, even hinata for all her shortcummings is lethal if whe lands the right blow, lucky for him neji can releaase chackra from his chackra points as she strickes at them. most other ninja back then would have been three shotted.

'Current' (as in, just before the massacre) Uchiha without the Sharingan would be fodder. They'd still be slightly stronger than random ninja though, as the Uchiha are supposed to be good at any aspect of ninja combat. It just happened that Itachi caught them with their pants down.

The only Hyuuga we've seen are Neji (a genius), Hinata (average), and Hiashi (the strongest Hyuuga in the current generation). It's no wonder they come off as being strong.
While their style is, in theory, superb & deadly, we haven't seen much of it in use. They definitely get shafted when fighting against long-range ninja. The Branch family gets shafted even further, as they don't have access to high level Hyuuga techs such as Kaiten and Eight Trigrams. Still, the Hyuuga are definitely a strong clan.

Also, if we were to compare the Sharingan and the Byakugan:
For combat related purposes, it is obvious that the Sharingan (2-3 tomoe) is better, at least if Juuken is not taken into account. For scouting and such, the Byakugan craps all over the Sharingan.

Bottom line: Itachi would have had an infinitely easier time if he were wiping out the Hyuuga instead of the Uchiha. vin

Also, most likely the strongest non-Itachi Uchiha were Shisui, who was killed separately and likely without a fight before things went down, and Fugaku, who might have trouble fighting his own son. And heck, Mikoto was a jonin too! So three of the people who'd be the best to take on a rogue ninja are out of the picture or at the least at a major disadvantage.

---
Without the sharingan, I get the idea they'd be pretty good. They wouldn't be in contention for the strongest clan any more, but even with just strong fire jutsu and above average taijutsu/genjutsu skills, they'd be a notable combat clan.

The Branch family gets shafted even further, as they don't have access to high level Hyuuga techs such as Kaiten and Eight Trigrams.

Though both of those seem like they're quite hard to perform, too (Hinata has access to them, she just can't do them). The clan likely has a lot of other techniques, like the lion fists.

Too bad Hizashi isn't around any more. He seemed like a badass too.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
'Current' (as in, just before the massacre) Uchiha without the Sharingan would be fodder. They'd still be slightly stronger than random ninja though, as the Uchiha are supposed to be good at any aspect of ninja combat. It just happened that Itachi caught them with their pants down.

The only Hyuuga we've seen are Neji (a genius), Hinata (average), and Hiashi (the strongest Hyuuga in the current generation). It's no wonder they come off as being strong.
While their style is, in theory, superb & deadly, we haven't seen much of it in use. They definitely get shafted when fighting against long-range ninja. The Branch family gets shafted even further, as they don't have access to high level Hyuuga techs such as Kaiten and Eight Trigrams. Still, the Hyuuga are definitely a strong clan.

Also, if we were to compare the Sharingan and the Byakugan:
For combat related purposes, it is obvious that the Sharingan (2-3 tomoe) is better, at least if Juuken is not taken into account. For scouting and such, the Byakugan craps all over the Sharingan.

Bottom line: Itachi would have had an infinitely easier time if he were wiping out the Hyuuga instead of the Uchiha. vin

How dare you say that last part. 😐

Also, how does a genjutsu work on a person that has a kekkei ghenki that specifically sees chakra? All a Hyuga would have to do is use their kekkei ghenki and the illusion ceases to exist as the hyuga sees the chakra. Even tsyukomi should fail because it works by messing with vision...vision that is specific to regular eyeballs. Has genjutsu ever been used on a Hyuga?

Also, don't forget Hanabi, as well. So, what it looks like, is at the worst, every Hyuga is above average for a ninja. 🙂 Even Hinata, who is supposed to be wimp, is still stronger than the average ninja. She's a chuunin, as well. Then there's Ko who is at least above average (he survived with an injury.) He has to protect the heir to the hyuga family, Hinata, so he's at least one of the strongest hyuga. Then we have Tokuma who was scouting with Anko, to find Kabuto and Madara. That is at least an A class, but most likely it is an S+ class mission. He's at least well above average.

What do we have, then, from the hyuga? They are one of the strongest clans in Naruto. Even the weakest we've seen (Hinata) is above average if not well above average.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Also, how does a genjutsu work on a person that has a kekkei ghenki that specifically sees chakra? All a Hyuga would have to do is use their kekkei ghenki and the illusion ceases to exist as the hyuga sees the chakra. Even tsyukomi should fail because it works by messing with vision...vision that is specific to regular eyeballs. Has genjutsu ever been used on a Hyuga?

Considering tsukiyomi can work on sharingan, which can also see chakra and is not a regular eyeball, I wouldn't go that far.

Special eyes means one is almost sure to know one's in a genjutsu, but one still has to defend against it and break it's hold on their chakra system.

Also, don't forget Hanabi, as well. So, what it looks like, is at the worst, every Hyuga is above average for a ninja. 🙂 Even Hinata, who is supposed to be wimp, is still stronger than the average ninja.

I have a hypothesis that there's a whole bunch of unclanned ninja (who are mostly genin, or those chunin we see who look old, ones who slowly worked up the ranks in other words), and any clan ninja is a step above... and, to be fair, every member of the Konoha 11 seems to be fairly talented by normal standards, and in most cases even within their clan (Hinata's below-average for her clan to start with, but I suspect that stigma largely goes away after the Neji fight, it was probably largely a mental thing and she proved herself to be not so sucky then. Heck, post-timeskip she rates a bodyguard!).

She's a chuunin, as well. Then there's Ko who is at least above average (he survived with an injury.) He has to protect the heir to the hyuga family, Hinata, so he's at least one of the strongest hyuga.

Eh, he's a watchdog. He doesn't necessarily have to be very strong, just strong enough to buy time for Hinata to escape if there's too much trouble / aid her in battle if not.

I suspect he's probably weaker, or at least not stronger, than Hinata.

Originally posted by dadudemon
How dare you say that last part. 😐

I can say what I damn well please. Also, you know it's da troof.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, how does a genjutsu work on a person that has a kekkei ghenki that specifically sees chakra? All a Hyuga would have to do is use their kekkei ghenki and the illusion ceases to exist as the hyuga sees the chakra. Even tsyukomi should fail because it works by messing with vision...vision that is specific to regular eyeballs. Has genjutsu ever been used on a Hyuga?

The Sharingan sees chakra. Sharingan Genjutsu has worked on people with the Sharingan. Having a Byakugan will likely not automatically give you a natural resistance to Genjutsu.

A Byakugan, in of itself, would not help with releasing a genjutsu on onself, not unless its FoV included the person's own body (which is plausible, and which would help to see that one is under a genjutsu).

However, if it were a genjutsu whereby the opponent appears to be there, but is obviously not, this might be when the Byakugan would help, as it can see the chakra pathway, and the person with the Byakugan would notice that there is no chakra signature where the opponent is supposedly standing.

For a Hyuuga, their exceptional chakra control is what would help them with releasing Genjutsu.

Tsukiyomi, or rather, Itachi's Tsukiyomi, is in a class of its own. Outside of Izanagi, there isn't another genjutsu that is in the same class, barring that duet toad song perhaps.
Tsukiyomi can work on people with the Sharingan like Kakashi, or even Sasuke, who has demonstrated a much higher genjutsu mastery than the Hyuuga. It'd be a while before any Hyuuga realized they were under Tsukiyomi, and by then, it would be too late.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, don't forget Hanabi, as well. So, what it looks like, is at the worst, every Hyuga is above average for a ninja. 🙂 Even Hinata, who is supposed to be wimp, is still stronger than the average ninja. She's a chuunin, as well. Then there's Ko who is at least above average (he survived with an injury.) He has to protect the heir to the hyuga family, Hinata, so he's at least one of the strongest hyuga. Then we have Tokuma who was scouting with Anko, to find Kabuto and Madara. That is at least an A class, but most likely it is an S+ class mission. He's at least well above average.

Same goes for the Uchiha, who are all supposed to be above average. Even without their Sharingan, they had powerful chakras, and had a natural aptitude for combat.
I mean, this was a clan that the government of Konoha likely feared entering into battle with.

Ko was a Branch family Hyuuga I believe, so he would be far from one of the strongest Hyuuga. He'd still have to be quite strong though, as he had to guard the Hyuuga heir.

As for Tokuma, he's probably a Jounin, like Neji, but as for his actual combat prowess, we don't know. All we saw him do is scout, and any random Hyuuga is second to none in that department.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What do we have, then, from the hyuga? They are one of the strongest clans in Naruto. Even the weakest we've seen (Hinata) is above average if not well above average.

They're definitely one of the strongest clans, if not the strongest right now.

The Uchiha clan is down to two members while the Senju & Uzumaki clan are all but disbanded, each with one known member alive (Tsunade & Naruto). The only Sarutobi currently alive (from what we've seen) is Konohamaru.

The Hyuuga's only competition from the known clans would likely be the Yotsuki clan from Kumogakure, which has Raikage & Killerbee...on second thought, those two could each solo the Hyuuga clan.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, how does a genjutsu work on a person that has a kekkei ghenki that specifically sees chakra? All a Hyuga would have to do is use their kekkei ghenki and the illusion ceases to exist as the hyuga sees the chakra. Even tsyukomi should fail because it works by messing with vision...vision that is specific to regular eyeballs. Has genjutsu ever been used on a Hyuga?

A visual genjutsu would work on even the Byakugan because ultimately the byakugan just enhances your eyes. It's like putting on a pair of night vision goggles. But genjutsu affects your brain and how it perceives information, so even if the byakugan itself can see chakra, that visual information that it sends to your brain would get shuffled by the genjutsu, so you'd still see something else.

It's like, if you're in a coma, you don't see anything. Even if someone opened up your eye lids you wouldn't be able to see anything, because the information your eyes are sending to your brain don't mean anything to your brain.

Originally posted by Q99
Also, most likely the strongest non-Itachi Uchiha were Shisui, who was killed separately and likely without a fight before things went down, and Fugaku, who might have trouble fighting his own son. And heck, Mikoto was a jonin too! So three of the people who'd be the best to take on a rogue ninja are out of the picture or at the least at a major disadvantage.

---
Without the sharingan, I get the idea they'd be pretty good. They wouldn't be in contention for the strongest clan any more, but even with just strong fire jutsu and above average taijutsu/genjutsu skills, they'd be a notable combat clan.

Yeah, Shisui could control anyone with his genjutsu and they wouldn't realize it. That is hax. MS level hax.
Fugaku was the leader of the Uchiha clan, so I suspect he was around the level Itachi was at the time (w/o MS). As for Mikoto, I agree. She was a Jounin, and even a random mook Jounin is still at least A- class, never mind an Uchiha Jounin.

Without the Sharingan? Nope, they wouldn't have that status anymore.
Still, like you said, they had Fire Jutsu and given that Sasuke is a Raiton type, I'm guessing there were Uchiha who had other elements as their main type. They also had powerful chakras as well.

Originally posted by Q99
Though both of those seem like they're quite hard to perform, too (Hinata has access to them, she just can't do them). The clan likely has a lot of other techniques, like the lion fists.

Indeed, they are high level techs. Though even if Hinata has determination, she hasn't struck me as the type who could pick up mid-high level jutsu.
Still, for Neji to learn them just by seeing them in action once...

Originally posted by Q99
Too bad Hizashi isn't around any more. He seemed like a badass too.

He one-shotted Hiashi vin

Without the Byakugan Hyuuga would be garbage. Just saying. Their entire fighting style revolves around it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Without the Byakugan Hyuuga would be garbage. Just saying. Their entire fighting style revolves around it.

I don't think that the byakugan is necessary for that ultimate shield thingy that Hiashi and Neji do. Also, Neji is super duper fast. Tenten said that the defense was even more powerful than Gaara's which is pretty tight.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Without the Byakugan Hyuuga would be garbage. Just saying. Their entire fighting style revolves around it.

Pretty much this.

On one hand, the Byakugan isn't exceptionally useful in combat. On the other hand, Juuken is useless without the Byakugan.
Guess the Hyuuga are lucky that every Hyuuga can access the Byakugan.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think that the byakugan is necessary for that ultimate shield thingy that Hiashi and Neji do. Also, Neji is super duper fast. Tenten said that the defense was even more powerful than Gaara's which is pretty tight.

I think he needs the Byakugan for Kaiten. Lemme check.

Demonic Phoenix
As for Tokuma, he's probably a Jounin, like Neji, but as for his actual combat prowess, we don't know. All we saw him do is scout, and any random Hyuuga is second to none in that department.

Anko seemed to be squad leader, so I'm guessing special jonin.

Still, like you said, they had Fire Jutsu and given that Sasuke is a Raiton type, I'm guessing there were Uchiha who had other elements as their main type. They also had powerful chakras as well.

After all, Sasuke was the top of the class before he even activated the sharingan, and that's against competition like Shino.

Without the Byakugan Hyuuga would be garbage. Just saying. Their entire fighting style revolves around it.

They'd have to adjust to get used to punching people more, but they're still pretty good at taijutsu, and their ability to expel chakra in a focused manner is excellent. Stuff like lion fists and kaiten would still about around.

They'd still be able somewhat above-average ninja, possessing some unique skills and jutsu, but no longer having the advantage to be a top clan.

Originally posted by Q99
Anko seemed to be squad leader, so I'm guessing special jonin.

Probable. Could be that his specialty was scouting.

Originally posted by Q99
After all, Sasuke was the top of the class before he even activated the sharingan, and that's against competition like Shino.

Indeed. Though to be fair, Sasuke was a genius, and Shino was likely his own competition. Naruto, Kiba, Shikamaru & Chouji were all slackers, while most of the girls were crazy for Sasuke. That leaves just Hinata & random classmates.

Originally posted by Q99
They'd have to adjust to get used to punching people more, but they're still pretty good at taijutsu, and their ability to expel chakra in a focused manner is excellent. Stuff like lion fists and kaiten would still about around.

True, they have excellent chakra control and can expel it easily. They also have excellent dodging skills, though that is obviously aided immensely by the Byakugan.
Kaiten was seemingly created to counteract the Blind-spot of the Byakugan. Without the Byakugan, Kaiten has a much lower chance of existing IMO. Also, without the Byakugan, the person in the Kaiten no longer has a 360 degree Field of Vision.

Originally posted by Q99
After all, Sasuke was the top of the class before he even activated the sharingan, and that's against competition like Shino.

Having really high grades does not make you great in a fit.

Keep in mind that Ino was also at the top of the class.

There were three people, I forget, now. But it was Ino, Sasuke, and a third person...maybe it was Shino? I forgot already and I was just talking about it last week. lol..I'm a tard.

Shino, right after graduation, would solo any of the Rookie 9, imo.

He's second in intelligence to Shikamaru and that's it, I believe (of the rookie 9, of course).

Originally posted by Q99
They'd have to adjust to get used to punching people more, but they're still pretty good at taijutsu, and their ability to expel chakra in a focused manner is excellent. Stuff like lion fists and kaiten would still about around.

They'd still be able somewhat above-average ninja, possessing some unique skills and jutsu, but no longer having the advantage to be a top clan.

I agree. This is what I was getting at. They have high standards for ninjas and even the branch family members have to train their butts off.

Originally posted by Q99
Too bad Hizashi isn't around any more. He seemed like a badass too.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He one-shotted Hiashi vin

i lol'd

Originally posted by dadudemon
Having really high grades does not make you great in a fit.

When one of the scores is taijutsu and another's ninjutsu, it doesn't hurt 🙂

Shino, right after graduation, would solo any of the Rookie 9, imo.

I dunno, fireballs + the highest speed seem like a pretty good counter for him.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I As for Tokuma, he's probably a Jounin, like Neji, but as for his actual combat prowess, we don't know. All we saw him do is scout, and any random Hyuuga is second on to the Inuzuka Clan in that department.

😆 I knew it was just a matter of time before others would see the true strength of the Byakugan. Soon everyone will.

Originally posted by Q99
When one of the scores is taijutsu and another's ninjutsu, it doesn't hurt 🙂

You're referring to the databook. We are referring to graduation to gennin and their academy scores.

I would like to make a list of all things that are left unresolved or needs to be wrapped up.

1. Madara said he gave Nagato his eyes or something like that. How did that go down and is it even the truth?
2. Why does Naruto look sort of like the Sage of 6 paths when in his kyuubi chakra form?
3. Are the Zetsu clones REALLY that powerful or what techs do they have?
4. What technique/power did Itachi give Naruto in the woods?
5. Who was that person Kabuto resurrected that caused Madara to crap himself?
6. How in the crap can Madara's plans be fulfilled if he used up most of the chakra from the tailed beasts to make the army?
7. How can he make the 10-tails when the Kyuubi's chakra has been split in half (yet still is the strongest tailed-beast with only half of its chakra.)
8. What does Sasuke's new powers entail?
9. How will Madara use Sasuke in the future when Sasuke is on a destructive path?
10. ??? can't think of any at the moment.

If you guys have definitive answers to some of the unanswered questions, definitely answer and cite your source. Also, continue to make the list. We can worry about ordering the list later, just continue to make it. I think this will help put things into better perspective on what's actually going on. Kishimoto probably has something like this already written up in his office somewhere and he slowly checks things off as he writes or adding to the list as he writes new plot.

You're referring to the databook. We are referring to graduation to gennin and their academy scores.

I'd be surprised if 'ninjutsu' and 'taijutsu' weren't actual scores they have in the academy too.

I suspect Ino did so well because of her ninjutsu score- possessing someone? At genin level? Impressive! Probably the best spy of the 9 in several categories.

2. Why does Naruto look sort of like the Sage of 6 paths when in his kyuubi chakra form?

My guess is the sealing ability he used descended from one of the Sage's jutsu.

4. What technique/power did Itachi give Naruto in the woods?

Crow.

5. Who was that person Kabuto resurrected that caused Madara to crap himself?

Also crow.

6. How in the crap can Madara's plans be fulfilled if he used up most of the chakra from the tailed beasts to make the army?
7. How can he make the 10-tails when the Kyuubi's chakra has been split in half (yet still is the strongest tailed-beast with only half of its chakra.)

Even with all the chakra spent, they still have a lot and it probably replenishes. The split-in-halfness of the Kyuubi shouldn't prevent resurrection either, I figure.

Perhaps he wants the 10 tails back but in a weaker state to control easier.

8. What does Sasuke's new powers entail?

Hax.

9. How will Madara use Sasuke in the future when Sasuke is on a destructive path?

Point at enemies, enjoy.

Also, eventually he should settle from 'rampaging' to 'just dark like Madara'.