The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. Any B-class ninja could have destroyed her, utterly. Just shows how crap Kabuto was in that fight.

Not really. He had his speed amped with drugs, and his chakra scalpels (which later were shown to be sharp enough to cut through Yamato's wood easily) allowed him to inflict major wounds without having to put any force behind his hits and extending his reach.

Any B-class ninja we've seen would've been out when she did the nerve-touch thing, and most A-classes for that matter. Anyone without very high speed would've been in big trouble just avoiding her blows too.

A lot of high rank ninja in her place would've simply been sliced up and died.

Even without using her stronger jutsu or being at full, Tsunade is still a threat to be taken very seriously.

He lost to 12-year old Naruto. Naruto knew an A-class technique and an S-class technique: rasengan and mass shadow clone. He was slow as crap, though.

Mostly because Kabuto was super careless and got himself in a position where speed didn't matter.

Not to mention Kabuto's directions were reversed at the time.

you got me thinking about stuff again, I wish oro was still around, he is still my favorite antagonist in the series. and no kabutomaru does not count imo

Oro was really good, like I said he reminds me of Amiba. I liked Danzo a lot as well.

Originally posted by Q99
Not really. He had his speed amped with drugs, and his chakra scalpels (which later were shown to be sharp enough to cut through Yamato's wood easily) allowed him to inflict major wounds without having to put any force behind his hits and extending his reach.

That's an ability of any medical nin. Also, Yamato's wood is made of wood. Cutting through wood, as a ninja, should be easy for even a fresh gennin.

Originally posted by Q99
Any B-class ninja we've seen would've been out when she did the nerve-touch thing, and most A-classes for that matter. Anyone without very high speed would've been in big trouble just avoiding her blows too..

Lemme get this straight: Tsunade, who had locked up and sat there on the ground, is somehow going to beat a B-Class ninja or ANY ninja, for that matter?

And, fighting against a 'strong' ninja with crap for speed is not a very good ninja. Any B class would have destroyed Tsunade before she stopped being a tard. I can't think of any known B-Class that wouldn't have destroyed her.

Originally posted by Q99
A lot of high rank ninja in her place would've simply been sliced up and died.

Nah. Most would have lived.

I don't see anything that warrants Kakashi stating that Kabuto was at his level. That was just hype for plot with no real substance.

Originally posted by Q99
Even without using her stronger jutsu or being at full, Tsunade is still a threat to be taken very seriously.

Just the same as a gennin that knows a few C and B techs...

Originally posted by Q99
Mostly because Kabuto was super careless and got himself in a position where speed didn't matter.

OR Kabuto didn't count on Naruto catching his kunai (while cutting through Naruto's hand in the process) as he was trying to deal the killing blow. Keep in mind that he technically killed Naruto already.

It's just that Kabuto isn't that awesome and he was making mince meat of both Tsunade and Naruto. Had Tsunade not snapped out of it, Naruto really would have died and so would have she.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, Yamato's wood is made of wood. Cutting through wood, as a ninja, should be easy for even a fresh gennin.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Would infused with chakra. Chakra tends to make things that are not so durable, more durable. See Crystal Ice Mirrors and Kimimaro's many bone jutsus.

Nah. No where does it say they are enforced/made stronger with chakra reinforcement.

It seems just like regular old wood. It breaks apart even easier than regular wood, imo. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's an ability of any medical nin. Also, Yamato's wood is made of wood. Cutting through wood, as a ninja, should be easy for even a fresh gennin.

It's chakra-reinforced wood that's pretty darn strong from what we've seen of it.

Making the scalpels long enough to be combat effective also seemed to be unusual- they're only good for internal hits and they don't make very big wounds, so you have to be precise and have them long enough (it was specifically said that the heart was out of reach for example) to use as weapons.

In Kabuto's hands they weren't dissimilar to Asuma's knives, with his precision and knowledge they were very dangerous, but I doubt that's universal, probably takes sharp skill to do so, considering that activating them and using them like that was what prompted Tsunade to comment how talented he was.

Lemme get this straight: Tsunade, who had locked up and sat there on the ground, is somehow going to beat a B-Class ninja or ANY ninja, for that matter?

I'm kinda thinking of before that point. How many ninja are going to last as long in the fighting as Kabuto did before that happened? Not many.

And, fighting against a 'strong' ninja with crap for speed is not a very good ninja. Any B class would have destroyed Tsunade before she stopped being a tard. I can't think of any known B-Class that wouldn't have destroyed her.

Any B-class wouldn't have gotten her into that position to begin with, they'd be taken out first.

When I say "anyone without very high speed," I mean anyone without very high speed, not just not-crap speed, since so much as one tap and they might be gone.

Nah. Most would have lived.

Keep in mind he started out with a leap from underground right behind her, cut her lungs once (didn't stop her of course, would stop most others), and he had regen kinda like hers but less so.

And the cutting of Shizune's tendons too, he's good with that mole technique.

Let's not forget he's pretty good at genjutsu too. It'd probably be silly to try against Tsunade, but he did put that stadium to sleep. So ability to defend against that is a necessity.

I think people in the B-ranks would be in major trouble against him, and plenty of A-ranks would stand a good chance at being taken down too.

I don't see anything that warrants Kakashi stating that Kabuto was at his level. That was just hype for plot with no real substance.

I think we're all agreed on that, the question is, by how much?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. No where does it say they are enforced/made stronger with chakra reinforcement.

It seems just like regular old wood. It breaks apart even easier than regular wood, imo. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
It's chakra-reinforced wood that's pretty darn strong from what we've seen of it.

Seems just like dry wood. Seriously. Also, we know it's weaker than the first hokage's.

It's as strong as dry wood, from what we've seen. Nothing spectacular.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Man, the Kyuubi must have been a weak ****, being ensnared by normal ass wood, actually, even WEAKER than normal wood.

Also, remember when Danzo deflected Sasuke's susano'o arrow with a wood jutsu?

That mythic arrow of a deific figure totally sucked.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Man, the Kyuubi must have been a weak ****, being ensnared by normal ass wood, actually, even WEAKER than normal wood.

Yeah, cause it was obviously only a tiny bit of wood being used. It wasn't greater in amount than any other wood jutsu we had seen since that moment.

And, we don't know if the Kyuubi was "ensnared" with the wood. We DO know that some wood was shoot up around it AND the Kyuubi seemd to easily be breaking free of it. stoned We DO know that the first hokage wrestled the Kyuubi from Madara's control. And we DO know that Madara was just trying to capture some of Hashirama's flash to copy his jutsu. baked

On top of my awesome points in this post, see my other post about the first hokage's wood jutsu being superior to the other two users.

Originally posted by Q99
Also, remember when Danzo deflected Sasuke's susano'o arrow with a wood jutsu?

That mythic arrow of a deific figure totally sucked.

Yeah, an arrow that barely damaged the surroundings and was blocked with slightly above average effort.

Man, you'd think a mythical being would be more powerful, no?

Yeah, cause it was obviously only a tiny bit of wood being used. It wasn't greater in amount than any other wood jutsu we had seen since that moment.

When 4 tails was restrained, it was about the same amount he used to hold Sai.

Do we really need jutsu to be specifically said to be chakra reinforced? It's jutsu. And heck, the guy uses it as a blast shield in preference to stone.

Originally posted by Q99
Ok, A+ it is, and it was pretty impressive how he did against Tsunade.

Post-merge I don't think he's a rank above Oro, though I do agree that he's S+.

For the parents, I'm thinking Kiba's mom might be B+ (she's a special jonin and we haven't seen anything to put her higher), most of the parents are A, Shizune too (or would she be A-? Very strong drugs/poisons and medical skills, though suffers some hth vulnerability), and Hiashi/Hizashi are A+.

The major thing I found impressive was the way he 'recovered' from Tsunade's nervous system attack, and the fact that some sense of his was supposed to be better than Tsunade's.

Depends on how he does in his fight against Naruto.
Though Manda v2 was nearly as long as that Turtle Island, which is by far the largest creature in the Naruto-verse right now. To compare, the full strength Kyuubi's head and neck were as big as Gamabunta, and the Kyuubi is supposed to fit inside that Temple where Killerbee took Naruto.
Another thing is Manda v2's strength. It helped flip over the Turtle, which is some serious strength right there. If it is as fast as Manda was, and has his shedding ability, then Manda v2 is probably the strongest summon in the manga right now.

________________

IMO, Hiashi is A+, while Hizashi should be A/A-. Hiashi knows the secret Hyuuga techs, while Hizashi probably didn't.

Shikamaru's father is smarter than Shikamaru, and he's the head of the Nara clan. Plus he's the Jonin Commander of Konoha, so IMO, he's at least S-, if not full S-class. Chouji's father could be A. Dunno much about him. Same goes for Ino's father.

Sasuke's mom was probably A/A-, while his father should be S-/A+ as he was the head of the Uchiha clan. Shisui at S- if not S. He was said to be talented, he had that badass genjutsu, and his speed with the Shunshin was likely incredibly fast.
I'd say Kushina was S+ at least. She was the Jinchurikii of the Kyuubi at full strength. Minato Namikaze is SS. He's got S-T techs, and that insane speed/reflexes.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tsunade is by far the most unimpressive of the Sannin in combat IMO.

No shit.

Base Mode Jiraiya was more impressive than her, while Orochimaru during his fight with Naruto, was IMO, even more impressive than Sage Mode Jiraiya. Plus Orochimaru can tank Tsunade's punches. stoned

Quick question about Edo Tensei: Is it live or dead bodies that are required in order to bring a person back? Just wondering but if it required dead bodies, then why not use the original body of the person you were trying to bring back like Kakuzu's or Itachi's?

I also want to know what the heck is Kishi going to have Sasuke do during this war? From what I can tell, now that Madara has an army of Zetsu, Most of Akatsuki back, and has 3 out of the six paths, Sasuke pretty much has no use in his plans. Nagato, Sasori, and Itachi would cause hell by themselves so really what's Uchiha boy going to do?

BTW: Kushina being S+ is pretty high considering she is virtually featless. Shikamaru's dad is also pretty high up in ranking.

Meh, it's pretty much implied ability for most ninja anyway. She was the jinchuriki of the Kyuubi, and she's an Uzumaki, so she would know a bunch of sealing jutsu. She's pretty durable too, in a manner of speaking. Gaara died when Shukaku was removed from him over a period of three days, while she survived when the Kyuubi was removed from her pretty much instantly.

As for Shikamaru's dad, he is known to be smarter than Shikamaru. He can beat him at Shougi, which means that he would be an excellent strategist as well. Then there are his jutsus, which due to his status as the leader of the Nara clan, he should have an extensive knowledge of.
We don't know if his chakra capacity is as low as Shikamaru's but I doubt it. Then there's his status as the Jonin Commander of Konoha, which means that he's the highest ranked normal ninja in the village.

Truth be told, S does seem too high now that I think about it. S- seems tad high, but meh. A+ seems fine.

Sasuke and Madara have got to be the most fail main villains in any shounen manga ever. Madara gets trolled by a paper woman for gods sake. Just when you think Minato who completely trolled his ass with little effort didn't leave him butthurt, he dies to a woman and needs izanagi to bail him out, thats like the equvilant of Sasuke fights when he gets wounded and fatally injured and needs people to save him.

That and Sasuke has yet to show he's equal to any Kage yet, all he has is EMS, but how is that going to improve his base skills which he has yet proven without the CS to be on even grounds. Sasuke can't beat Killer Bee in a fight without the MS, who knows how he'll fair with EMS while Bee has Samehada.

And then theirs Tsuchikage, who has molecule man powers. Yeah EMS has to be beyond overpowered at this point, but it doesn't change the fact Sasuke has been humilated and beaten by every Kage level ninja even with help and he's supposed to be equal to Pain and SM Naruto.

On Kabuto, there is this bit where he fended off post-timeskip Naruto without even looking. A+ does seem good for him.

IMO, Hiashi is A+, while Hizashi should be A/A-. Hiashi knows the secret Hyuuga techs, while Hizashi probably didn't.

Yea, though going by the databooks, Hizashi has more physical strength and stamina to make up for it. At least A, a few secret techniques aren't everything.

We don't know if his chakra capacity is as low as Shikamaru's but I doubt it. Then there's his status as the Jonin Commander of Konoha, which means that he's the highest ranked normal ninja in the village.

I'm guessing that role might simply be because he's the best commander of the lot. His actual jutsu don't seem above the rest of the InoShikiCho trio, from what we saw during the Orochimaru invasion he was mainly using Shikamaru's techniques.

I like to think that like Shikamaru, he's not the most powerful of ninja for his rank, but he is the most awesome. Same type of stuff as his son, but more chakra, more experience, and more tricks.

---

For higher ranks, I'm planning on going through them step by step, and being conservative with 'em, so let's not start the debate on them yet. S- and lower only for now 🙂

Btw, I'm thinking of putting 'Any Full Released Biju' at "At least S-". 3 tails, 1-tails, etc..

Quick question about Edo Tensei: Is it live or dead bodies that are required in order to bring a person back? Just wondering but if it required dead bodies, then why not use the original body of the person you were trying to bring back like Kakuzu's or Itachi's?

Sacrifices have always been specified, I bet alive.

Most likely it relies on their life to sustain the new life for the returned.

I also want to know what the heck is Kishi going to have Sasuke do during this war? From what I can tell, now that Madara has an army of Zetsu, Most of Akatsuki back, and has 3 out of the six paths, Sasuke pretty much has no use in his plans. Nagato, Sasori, and Itachi would cause hell by themselves so really what's Uchiha boy going to do?

Fight Naruto? He's a susano'o user with Eternal Mangekyo. I think that makes him their individually second strongest asset.

That and Sasuke has yet to show he's equal to any Kage yet,

'Cept for Danzo.

Originally posted by Q99
On Kabuto, there is this bit where he fended off post-timeskip Naruto without even looking. A+ does seem good for him.

Nice find.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, though going by the databooks, Hizashi has more physical strength and stamina to make up for it. At least A, a few secret techniques aren't everything.

Perhaps not something like Kaiten, but Eight Trigrams is pretty good. Plus, Hiashi is a lot better than Hizashi in Taijutsu (most likely thanks to his techs), which is what Gentle Fist is.

A is good enough for Hizashi.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm guessing that role might simply be because he's the best commander of the lot. His actual jutsu don't seem above the rest of the InoShikiCho trio, from what we saw during the Orochimaru invasion he was mainly using Shikamaru's techniques.

I like to think that like Shikamaru, he's not the most powerful of ninja for his rank, but he is the most awesome. Same type of stuff as his son, but more chakra, more experience, and more tricks.

Who knows. He likely knows a lot more jutsu than Shikamaru does, and he'd have a lot more chakra. The main factor is that he can beat Shikamaru at Shougi, which leads us to believe that he's a better strategist. Shikamaru is probably the best strategist we've seen in action.

He's probably not the most powerful one in the Jounin rank, but he's A+ material IMO.

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, I'm thinking of putting 'Any Full Released Biju' at "At least S-". 3 tails, 1-tails, etc..

The Biju? You want to include them as well?