The Official Naruto series Thread

Oh yea, one more person in the currently being discussed ranks: Chiyo.

Who knows. He likely knows a lot more jutsu than Shikamaru does, and he'd have a lot more chakra. The main factor is that he can beat Shikamaru at Shougi, which leads us to believe that he's a better strategist. Shikamaru is probably the best strategist we've seen in action.

He's probably not the most powerful one in the Jounin rank, but he's A+ material IMO.

I think he may be A+ material, but he's only shown A so far.

The Biju? You want to include them as well?

Maybe. They are characters, after all.

Chiyo could apparently solo a castle with her Chikamatsu puppets. Going by her abilities with the Sasori fight, she is able to make clever moves that catch even experienced opponents off guard. She isn't incapable of taijutsu, as seen when she attacked Kakashi and did well, considering her age and all. She has basic knowledge of medical techniques and can create poisons. I'd say she'd deserve at least an S+.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Chiyo could apparently solo a castle with her Chikamatsu puppets. Going by her abilities with the Sasori fight, she is able to make clever moves that catch even experienced opponents off guard. She isn't incapable of taijutsu, as seen when she attacked Kakashi and did well, considering her age and all. She has basic knowledge of medical techniques and can create poisons. I'd say she'd deserve at least an S+.

i'll go out ona a limb and say she could take it to saratobi hiruzen (circa oro fight). he'd have his hands full.

I... can't see S+. S-, maybe.

Most Akatsuki, the majority of S-class people we've seen period, are going to be plain-S, as that defines the level.

Originally posted by Q99
I... can't see S+. S-, maybe.

Most Akatsuki, the majority of S-class people we've seen period, are going to be plain-S, as that defines the level.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
besides hidan, who else in akatuski is S- ?

Hm... Kisame without his sword. Possibly Zetsu (we don't know what he can do without outside messes of chakra).

Most of 'em are going to be plain S with rare exception.

Chiyo's weaker than them, so I'm thinking S-, maybe even A+.
---

If we end up with a whole bunch of S+s and few Ss, then we're doing something wrong.

Chiyo is not weaker than Hidan.... 😬

Kisame is stronger than her, Samehada or not, mostly due to his one attack that he used on Guy in their final encounter(can't remember the name at the moment).

Originally posted by psycho gundam
easily the most all-around skilled kunoishi in the manga

i'll go out ona a limb and say she could take it to saratobi hiruzen (circa oro fight). he'd have his hands full.

I agree to an extent. He has better stats than her, but the only area the really matters is stamina in this case. Sarutobi could likely beat her more times than he'd lose, but it wouldn't be easy and it would be an awesome fight. Alot would be determined by the area as well, Sarutobi succeeding more in an open location, whereas Chiyo would certainly prefer a forest or a place to hide.

Yeah as you can tell, I like Chiyo quite a bit. 😛

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Chiyo is not weaker than Hidan.... 😬

I didn't say she was.

Kisame is stronger than her, Samehada or not, mostly due to his one attack that he used on Guy in their final encounter(can't remember the name at the moment).

Yea, I agree, but I'll also note Kisame got a chakra charge-up, and there's still versatility.

People on the same level do have varieties of strength, it's 1/3rd a huge category like "Jonin" or "Chunin" after all.

Originally posted by Q99
Oh yea, one more person in the currently being discussed ranks: Chiyo.

S- during her fight with Sasori. S or S+ during her Prime.
She's powerful, but she was nowhere near Sasori's level in that fight.

Originally posted by Q99
I think he may be A+ material, but he's only shown A so far.

Kurenai has shown only B- material. Yet she's easily A-class, if not A+.

Originally posted by Q99
Maybe. They are characters, after all.

Then we'd have to include certain summons as well. 😛

Manda v2 for S+.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Chiyo is not weaker than Hidan.... 😬

Kisame is stronger than her, Samehada or not, mostly due to his one attack that he used on Guy in their final encounter(can't remember the name at the moment).

That Great Shark Missile technique?

Yeah, it is pretty a uber tech. Would stop a Lariat right in its tracks. Of course, Double Lariat is too hax.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That Great Shark Missile technique?

Yeah, it is pretty a uber tech. Would stop a Lariat right in its tracks. Of course, Double Lariat is too hax.

Yeah, that thing that didn't really do much. Kinda like Kirin, though far less cool. And yeah, I know that each of these techniques was only used once against the worst possible type of opponent. 😛

You know what's cooler than Double Lariat?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
S- during her fight with Sasori. S or S+ during her Prime.
She's powerful, but she was nowhere near Sasori's level in that fight.

Even in her prime she was probably less powerful than current Sasori.

Kurenai has shown only B- material. Yet she's easily A-class, if not A+.

Her jutsu she's shown is more powerful than the jutsu he's shown, and "best at genjutsu out of everyone in the entire village," is IMO a more impressive claim than mastering shadow jutsu, it's one of the three branches of ninja combat and implies a lot more danger.

The Nara clan seems like it's in the role of "incredibly important due to brains, but not as combat-powerful as several other clans line the Hyuga or Shino's clan."

Also he was one of the ones advocating "hold back, we're not strong enough to help against Pain."

Then we'd have to include certain summons as well. 😛

Manda v2 for S+.

😬

We can't have everything be S+.

I'm going to do an update with currently mentioned ones, then we can talk about S (no + yet).

*Edit* Before I do that... I'm thinking maybe dropping Lee to A- (he's still just as focused on Taijutsu as ever, has yet to show going beyond 5 gates, and Neji probably is stronger). Also, opinions on Shizune?

Well as far a ranking goes in the ninja world, it pretty much fact that the Kages and Akatsuki are S-class: sorting out the S- from the SSS is another thing all together.

Even with the kages and all the jonin ready to fight Madara, most of Akatsuki's heavy hitters are back: Kakuzu's kind or nerfed though and what the heck was the point of bringing Hidan back? I mean, I'm probably one of the few people that actually liked Hidan, and I think that was an awkward ideal.

Another question about Edo Tensei: Once learning about the island Naruto was on and hinting at Kisame's demise, how come Madara didn't have Kabutomaru bring Kisame back before heading out?

Edit: Shizune might have potential for A- seeing as how she was Tsunade's apprentice longer than Sakura and seems to focus more on ninjutsu. Lee is a B+ for the sole fact that he can only use taijutsu.(granted that it pretty damn awesome)

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yeah, that thing that didn't really do much. Kinda like Kirin, though far less cool. And yeah, I know that each of these techniques was only used once against the worst possible type of opponent. 😛

You know what's cooler than Double Lariat?

Yep. That move is teh hax.

Triple Lariat with Kisame acting as the third Lariat user? awesome

Originally posted by Q99
Even in her prime she was probably less powerful than current Sasori.

Prolly.

Her jutsu she's shown is more powerful than the jutsu he's shown, and "best at genjutsu out of everyone in the entire village," is IMO a more impressive claim than mastering shadow jutsu, it's one of the three branches of ninja combat and implies a lot more danger.

The Nara clan seems like it's in the role of "incredibly important due to brains, but not as combat-powerful as several other clans line the Hyuga or Shino's clan."

Originally posted by Q99
Also he was one of the ones advocating "hold back, we're not strong enough to help against Pain."

Ehh? She's only shown one genjutsu, which takes a while to take effect. She hasn't shown anything else.

Shadow techs allow one to completely control someone, and while it can be harder to land than genjutsu, is far more fool-proof as it is far more difficult to get out of. Given his implied genius, coming up with ways to get his opponent under his control won't be too difficult, and once he does, it is game over against all but the strongest of opponents.

Where did he say that?

Originally posted by Q99
😬

We can't have everything be S+.

I'm going to do an update with currently mentioned ones, then we can talk about S (no + yet)

Course. Was just kidding. I forgot to put this smilie "stoned" >__>

Originally posted by killermover
Sasuke and Madara have got to be the most fail main villains in any shounen manga ever. Madara gets trolled by a paper woman for gods sake. Just when you think Minato who completely trolled his ass with little effort didn't leave him butthurt, he dies to a woman and needs izanagi to bail him out, thats like the equvilant of Sasuke fights when he gets wounded and fatally injured and needs people to save him.

That and Sasuke has yet to show he's equal to any Kage yet, all he has is EMS, but how is that going to improve his base skills which he has yet proven without the CS to be on even grounds. Sasuke can't beat Killer Bee in a fight without the MS, who knows how he'll fair with EMS while Bee has Samehada.

And then theirs Tsuchikage, who has molecule man powers. Yeah EMS has to be beyond overpowered at this point, but it doesn't change the fact Sasuke has been humilated and beaten by every Kage level ninja even with help and he's supposed to be equal to Pain and SM Naruto.

Only he beat Danzo. As in decisively beat a Kage level fighter one-on-one, sure, he did not have Shisui's eye, but he was still a Kage level opponent with hax out the ass. Killer Bee is physically one of the overall strongest characters in strength, speed, and durability. Not even counting his Biju hax. Even most S class characters could not beat him, losing to him was not Kishi's way of showing Sasuke as weak, it was establishing Killer Bee as really ****ing strong.

Brah, you did not just compare the Tsuchikage to Molecule Man, did you? 😬 He fought A, Gaara, Mei, and Onoki back to back, the fact that he is alive is impressive. He then killed Danzo. Sasuke is not weak, he is one of the strongest ninja in the series, BEFORE receiving the EMS. You just think he should be invincible.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Ehh? She's only shown one genjutsu, which takes a while to take effect. She hasn't shown anything else.

That one genjutsu'd be an instant kill against most people, it can't really be dodged, and it hid her location while it was going under effect at the same time.

The fact that she's the best at genjutsu should tell us she can do many-target stuff and most other sorts of genjutsu we've seen too (like Kabuto's stadium-KOing thing should be even easier easy for her).

Shadow techs allow one to completely control someone, and while it can be harder to land than genjutsu, is far more fool-proof as it is far more difficult to get out of. Given his implied genius, coming up with ways to get his opponent under his control won't be too difficult, and once he does, it is game over against all but the strongest of opponents.

It also has a less range of uses, less total range, and fewer targets.

Enough strength can make controlling hard too, so I wouldn't say it's harder to get out of, a strong genjutsuist is very hard to break free of without aid.

His genius makes up for a lot of those differences, but I'd say that's what makes him a full A.

Where did he say that?

Chapter 432, Shikamaru wants to help but Shikaku says their best move is to 'stay out of the way'.

Current list:

S-
Chiyo
Hidan
Kakashi Hatake (Part 1)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Might Gai
Sasuke Uchiha (pt. 2 start)

A+
Asuma Sarutobi
Darui
Jūgo
Hiashi Hyuuga
Kabuto Yakushi
Kimimaro Kaguya (sick)
Kurenai Yuhi
Suigetsu Hōzuki
Yamato

A
Ao
Baki
C
Chōjūrō
Chōza Akimichi
Fū (ANBU)
Hizashi Hyuuga
Inoichi Yamanaka
Kankurō (w/ Sasori puppet)
Naruto Uzumaki (post elemental training)
Neji Hyuuga (pt 2)
Shibi Aburame
Shikaku Nara
Shizune
Temari (pt 2)
Torune
Zabuza Momochi

A-
Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Ibiki Morino
Kakashi Hatake (Kakashi Gaiden)
Kankurō (Sasori fight)
Naruto Uzumaki (start of pt 2)
Rock Lee (pt 2)
Sai

B+
Anko Mitarashi
Naruto Uzumaki (VotE)
Sakon/Ukon
Sakura Haruno (pt 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (VotE)
Shino Aburame (pt 2)
Shikamaru Nara (pt 2)
Tsume Inuzuka

B
Jirōbō
Kankurō (Sasuke Retrieval)
Kidōmaru
Tayuya
Temari (Sasuke Retrieval)

B-
Aoba Yamashiro
Chōji Akimichi (pt 2)
Gaara (Chuunin Exam)
Hayate Gekkō
Hinata Hyuuga (pt 2)
Kiba Inazuka (pt 2)
Naruto Uzumaki (Post Rasengan Training)
Neji Hyuuga (Sasuke Retrieval)

C+
Ebisu
Haku
Ino Yamanaka (part 2)
Iruka
Neji Hyuga (Chunin exam)
Temari (Chunin exam)
Rock Lee (Chunin exam)
Sasuke Uchiha (Chunin exam finals)

C
Dosu
Karin
Kankuro (Chunin exam)
Konohamaru Sarutobi (pt 2)
Rin
Shino Aburame (Chunin exam)

C-
Kiba Inazuka (Chunin exam)
Kin
Obito (pre-Sharingan)
Tenten (Chunin exam)
Zaku

D+
Chōji Akimichi (Chunin exam)
Hinata Hyuga (pt 1)
Ino Yamanaka (Chunin exam)
Sakura Haruno (Chunin exam)

D
Sakura Haruno (Start)

E+
Naruto Uzumaki (pre-clone jutsu)

E-
Konohamaru Sarutobi (start)

Two issues which I can see is the A-s and plain-Bs seem a bit blank and could probably stand to see some people moved down to fill in.

Originally posted by Q99
When 4 tails was restrained, it was about the same amount he used to hold Sai.

Do we really need jutsu to be specifically said to be chakra reinforced? It's jutsu. And heck, the guy uses it as a blast shield in preference to stone.

Uh, yeah, we need it to say chakra reinforced because no elemental jutsu is chakra reinfroced: water, fire, wood, earth, etc.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Uh, yeah, we need it to say chakra reinforced because no elemental jutsu is chakra reinfroced: water, fire, wood, earth, etc.

Uh, what gave you that impression? Most of 'em seem reinforced to various extents, after all they are chakra powers made of elemental chakra. How else is a water prison supposed to hold someone? Fire jutsu aren't exactly normal fire either, what with the craters it leaves.

And the Kyuubi's physical strength we know is immense, so holding it with a foot or so thickness of wood is evidence enough of it's strength.

Also of note, for creating defensive barriers, Yamato choses wood in preference to stone even when he's standing on stone and there's a nigh-identical earth release jutsu to the wood one he uses.

Originally posted by Q99
Uh, what gave you that impression? Most of 'em seem reinforced to various extents, after all they are chakra powers made of elemental chakra. How else is a water prison supposed to hold someone? Fire jutsu aren't exactly normal fire either, what with the craters it leaves.

And the Kyuubi's physical strength we know is immense, so holding it with a foot or so thickness of wood is evidence enough of it's strength.

Also of note, for creating defensive barriers, Yamato choses wood in preference to stone even when he's standing on stone and there's a nigh-identical earth release jutsu to the wood one he uses.

None of them are reinforced. They are chakra generated, however. I thinks that's where we are disagreeing.

Read the rest of your post.

The full grown Kyuubi is MUCH bigger than what you assumed. It was far more than a foot.

Also, Yamato uses wood for just about everything. It's only natural that his first choice/instinct would be to choose wood for defense. It works well enough especially when he uses such a thick solid slab of it in that protective cone shape.

Originally posted by Q99
Current list:

S-
Chiyo
Hidan
Kakashi Hatake (Part 1)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Might Gai
Sasuke Uchiha (pt. 2 start)

- for one, sasuke would eat part one kakashi for breakfast.
part 2 sasuke is basically sasuke minus itachi powers and ems, he still has all the stuff he used to take on itachi though iirc.

-chiyo would also defeat kakashi more times than not

- and i love gai, but it's only his gates that really have him fight the likes of samahada-less kisame and even hope to damage him, not sure if he should really be in the S category without an asterisk

- kakashi and gai are A+, kakashi in part II (w/mangekyo) is S- i guess, and gai with gates open is somewhere in the S category