The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He was somewhat more distracted this time around that the Akatsuki pair were.

They made the distraction themselves, though, and even in the first case Shika did shadow-bind Hidan.

And yeah, looking at the characters you have in D+ I'd say they'd fit in quite nicely there.

I'm actually thinking plain D. Of the D+s, Choji and Hinata (who's only + for scouting reasons) and Oboro and probably the demon brothers would beat them more than not (and the Demon Brothers are way more stealthy and better at ambush), and Ino's got more utility.

Their specialities are pretty limited, and not only did chakra-drain lose to injured Sasuke, but it was injured, no-sharingan, no-jutsu, taijutsu Sasuke.

Solid genin, but that's all.

(And they're stronger than the current plain-D, Sakura, but she's only that high because of her utility in stuff like brains and setting traps).

Originally posted by Q99
Ok, I'm thinking of doing a rank update again.

Changes I plan on making: Bumping Haku from B- to at least B, maybe B+. He showed a few more abilities last outing like his powerful Ice defense and we got to see how he was in comparison to normal ninja.

B is perfect based on the people that are in that tier.

Originally posted by Q99
Darui- A+ for sure.

Finally. Also, what about bumping down Yamato to A? He doesn't seem like A+ material IMO.

Originally posted by Q99
The brothers- what are your thoughts on them? I'm thinking S-, between weapons and foxing out, but I could see the argument for A+s.

S-. We don't know if they can use Menacing Balls, but they have sheer power going for them. Plus Kinkaku was taking on Darui's division by himself, and winning.

Originally posted by Q99
Onoki- S to S+ due to being acknowledged as the strongest current Kage and all that.

S+ is good enough.

Originally posted by Q99
Zabuza- considering how terrifying an effect he had on a large scale battlefield, wanna bump him to A+? Or leave at A?

Bump him up. Dude's deadly thanks to his mist tech.

Originally posted by Q99
It's also occurred to me we don't have pre-exam Sasuke on the list, with or without Sharingan. I'm thinking he should start relatively high, even pre-sharingan he was able to stop the Demon Bros.

C- for pre, C for post.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Seems reasonible because he was still getting beat down by people like Lee. The 2 Tomoe sharingan only offered "marginal" benefit. It wasn't until the 3 tomoe that we saw a giant/significant boost in ability.

It only seems marginal since Lee was too fast for Sasuke to react to. He could follow Lee's movements, but his body wasn't fast enough.

2 Tomoe still had the jutsu copying, chakra perception, and the ability to track fast objects. 3 Tomoe boosted that last part by giving precog.

Giant chakra pots that can seal people, women that can transport things at light-speed, Darui not dying from the "chakra extensive" treasures, is their no end to the amount of PIS iin this war?

At least we now know that the GS brothers tried to fight the kyuubi prior to the Harishima vs Madara fight.

The kyuubi's kind of a punk even though its supposed to be the strongest of the biju.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Giant chakra pots that can seal people, women that can transport things at light-speed, Darui not dying from the "chakra extensive" treasures, is their no end to the amount of PIS iin this war?

The Giant Pot thing was taken straight from another source. The Light speed thing was pretty kewl, but yeah, it was pretty much invented for the plot.
The battle between the Brothers and Darui's Division probably just took a few minutes at best. At the very least, we know that Darui has an above average level of chakra.
A better instance of PIS was when Darui's word just suddenly changed.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
At least we now know that the GS brothers tried to fight the kyuubi prior to the Harishima vs Madara fight.

The kyuubi's kind of a punk even though its supposed to be the strongest of the biju.

Madara, Hashirama, Mito, Minato, Sasuke (to an extent), and even Naruto, have all made it their b****.

Originally posted by Q99
They made the distraction themselves, though, and even in the first case Shika did shadow-bind Hidan.

He also had a plan set up in advance, indicating he didn't need Ino's help. Even if she did take over Hidan's mind, it wouldn't have done anything to help them in battle. Kakazu would have been a better target but since he had his heart monsters its not likely it would have helped then.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm actually thinking plain D. Of the D+s, Choji and Hinata (who's only + for scouting reasons) and Oboro and probably the demon brothers would beat them more than not (and the Demon Brothers are way more stealthy and better at ambush), and Ino's got more utility.

Their specialities are pretty limited, and not only did chakra-drain lose to injured Sasuke, but it was injured, no-sharingan, no-jutsu, taijutsu Sasuke.

Solid genin, but that's all.

(And they're stronger than the current plain-D, Sakura, but she's only that high because of her utility in stuff like brains and setting traps).

I'm not sure Ino or Hinata could beat them. Neither have shown that much skill combat wise and Ino's best attack is kinda pointless. Oboro might be stronger than them but I'm not 100% convinced. Misumi's technique is pretty dangerous if he gets around you and Yoroi's chakra stealing technique, while less deadly, is fundamentally a decent move.

Sasuke has a ton of chakra and got some help from Naruto in that fight inadvertently. Besides, Yoroi was going to lose that fight one way or another.

Not to start any fires here, god knows I don't want that, but in the anime they were seen again and did display a better variety of attacks. Filler but then again I'm not sure if you're counting filler.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
The kyuubi's kind of a punk even though its supposed to be the strongest of the biju.

Finally. Also, what about bumping down Yamato to A? He doesn't seem like A+ material IMO.

Hm, other people's opinions?

I think between the scale of the Earth jutsu he uses and the versatility/defensive power of wood, he's probably A+, but I admit it's borderline.

TheAuraAngel

I'm not sure Ino or Hinata could beat them. Neither have shown that much skill combat wise and Ino's best attack is kinda pointless.

I'd give Hinata a solid chance, her taijutsu is pretty good, but both of them are D+ due to their utility rather than direct combat anyway.

If Hinata didn't have her scouting abilities, she'd be D, and if Ino didn't have her possession she'd be D- I'd say.

Misumi's technique is pretty dangerous if he gets around you and Yoroi's chakra stealing technique, while less deadly, is fundamentally a decent move.

Yea, they're solid genin, but as their speciality moves are short range and take some time, I don't rate it as better than Hinata's taijutsu.

D- should be the baseline for genin after all.

Not to start any fires here, god knows I don't want that, but in the anime they were seen again and did display a better variety of attacks. Filler but then again I'm not sure if you're counting filler.

I generally don't, especially early on since they tend to be generous with jutsu, number of elements, and similar.

For example, if you take filler, Oboro the genjutsu genin? He has two elemental releases.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It only seems marginal since Lee was too fast for Sasuke to react to.

That's it. Anyone fast made it almost completely useless. It also lacked the precog shizer.

There's also the problem of seeing it and still not being fast enough to react...even IF he could precog it.

Anyone with decent speed made it almost useless.

Geniuses could memorize techniques, all the same: sharingan not needed. The most important thing about hte sharingan (excluding the super duper MS techs) is the precog ability that it offered. That's what made them the second most powerful ninja clan before the great organization into countries, occured.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Anyone with decent speed made it almost useless.

It's a very rare person who's that fast. Other than Lee (who's like Jonin fast from the start), none of the exam bunch were close.

Geniuses could memorize techniques, all the same: sharingan not needed.

Geniuses like that are rarer than sharingan, I'd think.

Sure, there are some, but Sharingan helps streamline things, and pretty much no ninja is genius enough to copy an enemy technique as it's happening during the fight like Kakashi does. At the least, it makes things easier.

The most important thing about hte sharingan (excluding the super duper MS techs) is the precog ability that it offered. That's what made them the second most powerful ninja clan before the great organization into countries, occured.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Q99
Hm, other people's opinions?

I think between the scale of the Earth jutsu he uses and the versatility/defensive power of wood, he's probably A+, but I admit it's borderline.

Yea, they're solid genin, but as their speciality moves are short range and take some time, I don't rate it as better than Hinata's taijutsu.

D- should be the baseline for genin after all.

Yamato's wood techniques certainly give him a reason to be ranked A+.

And alright, if you insist. 😛

Originally posted by Q99
It's a very rare person who's that fast. Other than Lee (who's like Jonin fast from the start), none of the exam bunch were close.

This incorrectly assume that there's such as thing as "jonin speed." Sure, there are fast jonin, but there are also really really fast gennin and chuunin.

Now, you can respond and say that there's more proof of fast "jonin" than of any other type.

Maybe?

I'd posit that there are far more chuunin than jonin and also point out that still, "speed" is not a requirement to be a jonin: we actually do not know the requirements.

Saying he has "jonin" speed is incorrect because another one of his pals had "jonin" speed: Neji.

Originally posted by Q99
Geniuses like that are rarer than sharingan, I'd think.

Nah, there's only two of those sharingan users left left. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Sure, there are some, but Sharingan helps streamline things, and pretty much no ninja is genius enough to copy an enemy technique as it's happening during the fight like Kakashi does. At the least, it makes things easier.

I agree, but, copying a technique and being effective with it are two different things. There are plenty of techs out there that make it impossible to copy without enough chakra and training. Naruto, for one, could just do a whole bunch of jutsu, perfectly, and it would overtax any single sharingan user in history: including Madara. Itachi showed us that even "showing" it to your sharingan enemy doesn't matter because it can be overtaxed with enough speed, which makes me lulz.

Originally posted by Q99
Agreed.

HOOOORAY! 😄

There's no set 'jonin speed' exactly, but most generalist jonin (Asuma/Yamato/Kurenai/Kabuto/etc.) do tend to be in the same general band. I think Lee's about as fast as they are while the others don't get there until later.

Saying he has "jonin" speed is incorrect because another one of his pals had "jonin" speed: Neji.

Nah, Neji can handle high-speed opponents pretty well, but wasn't personally as fast yet.

Lee's speed was for the purpose of blitzing Neji after all ^^

Neji >>>>> Lee.

Always.

Originally posted by Q99
Nah, Neji can handle high-speed opponents pretty well, but wasn't personally as fast yet.

Lee's speed was for the purpose of blitzing Neji after all ^^

That doesn't make sense.

Lee is uber fast, but gets beat down by Neji. Neji doesn't have the sharingan for precog...yet, Neji can still out-move Lee enough to not experience a single strike. This is without reaction time. This makes Neji a very fast fighter in speed and reaction time. Since he does not have precog, he is moving quite fast to avoid lees devastating strikes. Therefore, Neji is in your area of "jonin" speed...cept he's a genius and Lee is not. 🙂 Lee is a genius at hard work, I suppose.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That doesn't make sense.

Lee is uber fast, but gets beat down by Neji. Neji doesn't have the sharingan for precog...yet, Neji can still out-move Lee enough to not experience a single strike. This is without reaction time. This makes Neji a very fast fighter in speed and reaction time. Since he does not have precog, he is moving quite fast to avoid lees devastating strikes. Therefore, Neji is in your area of "jonin" speed...cept he's a genius and Lee is not. 🙂 Lee is a genius at hard work, I suppose.

One doesn't have to be the same speed as someone in order to be able to dodge them. Fighting with people a step or two off isn't rare, blitzing only occurs when the difference is fairly big (and when Lee blitzed Sasuke, he used the 'get under line of sight' trick. Obviously, not so great against Neji).

Neji's one step down in speed, but he's more skilled at taijutsu and the gentle fist has a significant advantage that helps in defense- since it only requires a touch rather than the full might of a blow, he can keep his guard further out and not have to make himself vulnerable to strike. Neji has to poke while Lee's blows have to strike deep to hurt, an inherent advantage.

That, combined with skill, and the "speed to a side the enemy can't see" being useless, gives Neji the major defensive edge despite being a bit less quick.

We've never seen Lee and Neji fight when Lee's using full speed, so I doubt he'd be able to do a no-hitter by the point of the exams.

---

Oh yea, and databook puts Neji's speed at into at 3, Lee's at 4. So there's that.

Lee has always been faster than Neji. Did that change while I wasn't looking?

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's it. Anyone fast made it almost completely useless. It also lacked the precog shizer.

There's also the problem of seeing it and still not being fast enough to react...even IF he could precog it.

Anyone with decent speed made it almost useless.

Geniuses could memorize techniques, all the same: sharingan not needed. The most important thing about hte sharingan (excluding the super duper MS techs) is the precog ability that it offered. That's what made them the second most powerful ninja clan before the great organization into countries, occured.

Correction: Anyone fast enough that the Sharingan user's body cannot keep up, which is true for any other person. Sasuke getting pwned by Lee was due to his own body's limitations, not the Sharingan's. The fact that Sasuke could see everything while moving at the speed of Lee without his weights, means that he would also be able to see Lee while Lee was blitzing around without his weights. Plus Lee has reservations about moving at such speeds.
Also, anyone fast enough for the Sharingan is pretty much way too fast for anyone else if it comes down to a Taijutsu/CQC battle without incredible defenses involved.

Yeah, though the predictive factor is about the only thing that sets apart Three Tomoe from Two Tomoe. While it's arguable that the Three Tomoe further slows down fast moving objects

Anyone with 'decent' speed? So far, only Raikage fits into that category then, because he's the only person who has been too fast for the Sharingan itself to follow. Everything else has been limited by the user's reactions and body responses.

Not really. The only person to have perfectly memorized a tech on first sight, without the Sharingan, is Neji. Yes, there are limitations to it, but that is once again dependent on the user's stats, and not the Sharingan itself. Neither does the copying factor improve with Three Tomoe.

It's not just the predictive ability, though it was a very good ability afforded to the users of the Three Tomoe Sharingan. It's the whole package that made them that strong. Even Uchiha without the Sharingan could be decent ninja, and they had combat aptitude.

The predictive ability only works against physical movements, and physical attacks like punches. Otherwise, a Three Tomoe Sharingan user would be nearly untouchable if the Sharingan predicted every single thing.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not really. The only person to have perfectly memorized a tech on first sight, without the Sharingan, is Neji.

?

Are you talking about Kaiten?

And Eight Trigrams. They are Main House techs, and as a Branch member, he couldn't have been taught them.