Originally posted by Q99
But they still use the terminology 'heal,' which says to me it's not about fetching anything. It's healing a very unusual type of wound.
It's a completely different type of "heal" though: not restoring tissues.
Originally posted by Q99
If one creates a plot hole, then that's a clash with other material, meaning it's less likely.
No, that's not what it means at all. That's an arbitrary statement.
Originally posted by Q99
It's possible to write a story without plotholes, but it's impossible to write a story that can't have plot problems made by assuming specific unsaid things.
That's also an incorrect application to the topic at hand.
Originally posted by Q99
It's not a true plot hole if you have to assume something not established in the series to get it.
No, it's a major plothole no matter how you try and rewrite Naruto to make it seem like Kishimoto did not write himself into a plothole.
Originally posted by Q99
The fact they use the words heal suggests they can, and nothing exists that says they can't.
Wrong: the fact that it's not "normal" means it's not normal. It's not healing tissues. You are waaaaaaaaaaaay over-simplifying it. She has to magically fix his missing spirit arms.
Originally posted by Q99
You're assuming they can't, and forcing a contradiction into existence. It's not a contradiction inherent in the written information, it must be forced to exist.
You have incorrectly assumed that I said it was a contradiction when I did not even indicate it was. In other words, Strawman. This plothole is NOT a contradiction.
A plothole can ALSO be gap in the plot that is necessary to explain some of the plot. AKA: how does Tsunade "heal" arms that aren't actual physical injuries when she is a medical nin? Auto-plothole since it is not explained. That's the most direct flaw in your argument: no matter how much you retcon for Kishimoto, it's still a plothole. I'm taking it a step further and saying that it is also a plothole because it's more likely that she has to pull the missing spirit arms from the Shinigami's belly...cause...that's where his spirit arms are. You are saying that she's going to do it a different way which is 100% baseless: replicate spirits? Wah? You kidding me?
Check this out: You're making up plot to NOT make it an inconsistancy. You've created plots that help it not be a hole in the plot and are pretending that this is some sort of "fictional higher ground". Sorry, that's not the way it works. Not only is your option even less baseless than mine, you're doing the same exact thing I am with less "in story" help.
Originally posted by Q99
Doesn't it? We know for a fact there's a way to fix spirit arms.
No we don't: She never says she can do it. It is only an assumption that we the reader and Oro believe because Kabuto believes that only Tsunade can do it.
Originally posted by Q99
There are three possibilities on how to fix them that you've brought up, and none of them are said to not exist, in either the general or even Tsunade's arsenal.
That's not really a good case at all, man. That aren't said to exist, either.
Originally posted by Q99
No one has said "there's no way to regrow spirit damage." No one has said "it is possible to reattach" spirit arms either, or "it is possible to retrieve spirit arms," or "it is possible to create new copies of spirit arms."
HOWEVER! And this is a big however...we DO know that extra-dimensional summons are possible. We DO know that we can also summon the Shinigami. We DO know that resurrections are possible with Edo Tensei. That's a big list of things that support the idea that it's possible to summon and heal them back onto Oro's spirit. It's far more supported than any other idea because of that nice laundry list of supporting techs. Growing a spirit? No. Replicating a spirit? No. There's no support, at all, that it can be done. At least I can justify the summoning of the spiritual arms.
Originally posted by Q99
One must be true, but you can't say any of them are definitely false. The terminology seems to suggest healing for me, and only the retrieval one forces a plot problem into existence.
And you can't say that any of them are definitely true. This is a completely speculative conversation we are having.
Originally posted by Q99
It would also not create a contradiction, though.
A contradiction is not important: there's no contradiction in showing that Kishimoto could have written a better story: that's not a contradiction: that's showing crappy writing.
A contradiction would be showing that souls could not be summoned, from the manga, and then me saying that it's a plot hole that they didn't just summon souls: I would be contradicting the manga if I said then when it was already shown that a soul could not be summoned.
Originally posted by Q99
Three options, one creates a contradiction. From that, we can safely toss out the one that does. Left with the remaining two, terminology suggests one, but neither create a contradiction and thus both are possible.
Nah. No contradiction. We cannot safely toss out any because none create a contradiction.
Originally posted by Q99
Creating an inconsistency is, in itself, a reason to toss out a possibility, which is the main problem with your argument.
Incorrect. So, I now see your path of argument. Since there's no contradiction to begin with, your entire argument null. Additionally, by one use of "plothole" it IS a plothole.
I cannot say I'm right in saying that we should just plant the 4th's spirit into some clay: we still need some of his DNA for that. His body is buried somewhere, I'm sure, just like the First's and Second's were. But you definitely cannot say there's any better of an explanation or than healing Oro's spirit arms back on him. You also cannot say that there is a contradiction when there is none. Your entire counter-points were based around that central point. You also cannot say that Tsunade could not have succeeded when she never said she could do it to begin with nor did she actually do it. She very well may not have been able to heal it because NO one told her that Oro's spirit arm was cut off.