Originally posted by dadudemon
It's a completely different type of "heal" though: not restoring tissues.
And there's still no evidence she can't do that, and the words of one of the best medic-nin and soul-knowledgable ninja on the planet (Oro having learned to absorb souls) that she can "Heal," their words, not "replace," his arms.
No, it's a major plothole no matter how you try and rewrite Naruto to make it seem like Kishimoto did not write himself into a plothole.
No, it's only a plot hole *if you make an assumption not present in the text*.
It is not a plot hole if you don't.
Wrong: the fact that it's not "normal" means it's not normal. It's not healing tissues. You are waaaaaaaaaaaay over-simplifying it. She has to magically fix his missing spirit arms.
But magically fixing it doesn't mean it has to be retrieved from the spirit god's stomach, it can be growing near spirit arms.
That's a lot simpler than retrieving it from the death god's stomach.
You have incorrectly assumed that I said it was a contradiction when I did not even indicate it was. In other words, Strawman. This plothole is NOT a contradiction.
Yes, it is, that's what makes it a plot hole.
A plothole can ALSO be gap in the plot that is necessary to explain some of the plot. AKA: how does Tsunade "heal" arms that aren't actual physical injuries when she is a medical nin? Auto-plothole since it is not explained.
Not really. It's a very simple conclusion that "she can heal spirit wounds too."
Ninjutsu has been shown to affect spirits on many occasions.
It's not directly said, but there is a very reasonable explanation consistent with shown data.
Check this out: You're making up plot to NOT make it an inconsistancy. You've created plots that help it not be a hole in the plot and are pretending that this is some sort of "fictional higher ground". Sorry, that's not the way it works. Not only is your option even less baseless than mine, you're doing the same exact thing I am with less "in story" help.
It's only an inconsistency if you use your made-up explanation.
Otherwise, it's either a "We don't know how she did that," (that is, if one assumes nothing), or "She probably did this," (figuring out what's consistent).
Neither way is an inconsistency. Even if we don't know, it's not an inconsistency because nothing has said she can't regrow spirit wounds, that is entirely your assumption.
No we don't: She never says she can do it. It is only an assumption that we the reader and Oro believe because Kabuto believes that only Tsunade can do it.
Tsunade seriously considers doing it, and Oro and Kabuto would both know.
That's not really a good case at all, man. That aren't said to exist, either.
You're missing the point.
Base state: We have an unknown situation. You're saying it must be a plot hole because you're assuming one of three unstated solutions.
If you're assuming unstated solutions, why are you assuming the one that creates a plot hole where there was none?
Your answer actively contradicts things. Not assuming anything doesn't. Assuming it's either of the others doesn't.
HOWEVER! And this is a big however...we DO know that extra-dimensional summons are possible. We DO know that we can also summon the Shinigami. We DO know that resurrections are possible with Edo Tensei. That's a big list of things that support the idea that it's possible to summon and heal them back onto Oro's spirit. It's far more supported than any other idea because of that nice laundry list of supporting techs. Growing a spirit? No. Replicating a spirit? No. There's no support, at all, that it can be done. At least I can justify the summoning of the spiritual arms.
What are you talking about? The summoned spirit did 'makeshift surgery' by cutting off the arms to begin with
Spirits can obviously be messed with and altered. That's how Oro got his arms gone in the first place.
Furthermore, we have three characters refer specifically to healing spirit wounds, i.e. the arms. That is in itself support.
You're the only one assuming moving them is the only thing you can do to spirits. You are making the contradiction, it is not from the manga.
And you can't say that any of them are definitely true. This is a completely speculative conversation we are having.
Your argument relies on making a specific unproven assumption.
You can't say, "This is a plot hole because this assumption is true, when multiple less contradictory assumptions exists."
If one doesn't make any assumptions, there's no contradictions or plot holes yet.
A contradiction is not important: there's no contradiction in showing that Kishimoto could have written a better story: that's not a contradiction: that's showing crappy writing.
But the problem doesn't exist in his writing to begin with, it's only in your assumption.
How is it 'his crappy writing' when it absolutely requires an unsupported assumption to make an error?
A contradiction would be showing that souls could not be summoned, from the manga, and then me saying that it's a plot hole that they didn't just summon souls: I would be contradicting the manga if I said then when it was already shown that a soul could not be summoned.
You're saying that the arms are summoned from the death god- we're told that nothing can be retrieved from it's belly. You're contradicting the manga.
Healing spirit arms is, on the other hand, not a contradiction. It's not specifically said, but it's implied, and definitely nothing says it isn't the case.
Nah. No contradiction. We cannot safely toss out any because none create a contradiction.
Yours does- that's your whole complaint. That it makes a plot hole that doesn't fit with other events.
Incorrect. So, I now see your path of argument. Since there's no contradiction to begin with, your entire argument null. Additionally, by one use of "plothole" it IS a plothole.
Plotholes need to be things internal to the plot, not external assumptions.
I cannot say I'm right in saying that we should just plant the 4th's spirit into some clay: we still need some of his DNA for that. His body is buried somewhere, I'm sure, just like the First's and Second's were. But you definitely cannot say there's any better of an explanation or than healing Oro's spirit arms back on him.
Sure I can- your way creates a plot hole, mine doesn't.
You also cannot say that there is a contradiction when there is none.
Your complaint is it makes her actions inconsistent. That's the type of contradiction I'm talking about.
Your entire counter-points were based around that central point.
You keep on harping about how it's a plot hole and now your argument is my counterargument doesn't count because it's not a plot hole?
Get your argument strait.
Or at least re-examing your base assumption that's getting you into this problem to begin with.
This is a reoccurring issue with your arguments, I've noticed. You say something *must* be true, even when it creates a flaw when compared with the manga, but that flaw doesn't exist until you go beyond the manga, and not only beyond it, but beyond in a specific way. If you're going to go beyond you must consider multiple explanations to what fits and not simply assume the one that doesn't fit in some way must be true.
Apples to oranges. I've indicated that already.
It's really, really not.