Originally posted by dadudemon
She jumps away from some to jump right into some more OR she uses her wind to blow them away and uses up her chakra.
She jumps, hits him with wind and wins. Or she blows them away, hits him with win, and wins.
Cause Shino totally used the same exact strategy I've described, right?
Your strategy seems ineffectual. A dozen bugs at a time is pretty easy to avoid.
Have you read the fight recently? Cause the beetles traveled on his chakra strings.
Yes. The bugs didn't reach because he severed them, but some others got him when they snuck up due to the queen on his headband.
You do realize that this is almost a completely useless discussion, right? Temari is NOT Kankuro.
You're saying she can't avoid. She's better at avoiding than Kankuro. Analogy.
Yet, this isn't the case and the fight proved that. 🙂
Nope. The bugs only got Kankuro or his puppet when they either leapt into Shino, or by surprise. Every time they were seen coming was avoided.
One is a wide open area and the other is a heavily wooded area.
The wide open area is better for Temari. That's not an argument for Shino.
It's as if you've ignored everything else I've stated. 😬
If it seems like I am, it means I'm trying to point out errors in them.
Shino's supposed to send out so many bugs that she can't avoid them (which contradicts the 'send a dozen' thing, a dozen doesn't require much effort to defend against), and wear her down without being blasted?
Not by much. Databook says she is faster by .5.
She's .5 faster than the guy who could avoid them when they were used in large number.
You're also comparing apples to oranges by mentioning Tenten.
You said he would defend against her winds by dodging them. I gave an example of a better dodger failing to do that.
Apples to apples.
Here's what's so wonderful about that: Shino got to see that fight. 🙂
So did Temari. She knows the field's traps now.
it's the exact same for Shino except he doesn't have to have shadows and he can send bugs in every single vector out in the open. She can only do so much wind thrashing to avoid Shino's bugs.
Shino doesn't have that many bugs, and that doesn't cover his defense.
He sends them out in every direction, she blasts one wide area clean and from there blasts Shino. Or them jumps to an area of the battlefield further from the bugs.
You're acting like Shino has unlimited bugs and can blanket the area, instead of his real much smaller supply. She only needs to deal with bugs in one path.
It's a similar fight with Shino: he has a greater range and more attack vectors. Temari's movements are actually much more limited as she pretty much will have to pivot and spam the wind attack in all directions which include "up."
Up? His bugs can't fly in part 1. His bugs need to crawl around to surround someone, meaning they take time too, she can act well before she's surrounded. The bugs can travel further but they're also a much slower attack.
You are grossly overestimating his capabilities, he never does something like that in part one.
You want Temari to win.
Seriously, you're pitting part 2 chunin-for-years Shino against part 1 Temari.
You're giving Shino hordes of bugs that are magically surrounding her without her doing something about it (like attacking him or them while they're moving into position) and flight, which they don't have yet.
As though Shino showed any magical differences with his bugs when he clearly didn't.
Shino against Tobi could fly his swarms around, which is a big difference.
It's not just that, but numbers and bug speed that you're overestimating. Shino doesn't have unlimited bugs, nor can they rapidly surround someone at a distance.
You're actually lying, there.
I'm not. Several occasions you've said that Sasuke and Temari's jutsu won't be good for bug clearing because they'll be attacked from too many sides.
You are coming across as implying Shino'd have them easily surrounded when he attacks.
"Sending on a dozen or so at a time, getting her to wear herself out, is definitely an easy way to win. He could do that while funneling some in the hole in the ground Naruto made.""She's not jumping around a very small number. She ends up with tons all over her as she wears herself out trying to "blow" the rest away...and she passes out from the others draining her. "
See? "Tons all over her." He's somehow getting tons all over her because they're too many to defend against?
Aside from that contradicting the 'dozen at a time', she blows away all the ones in one direction and there's more elsewhere? That'd require being surrounded. Your tactics and results for Shino all seem to assume the opponent is surrounded.
you seem to be forgetting how they magically appear behind Zaku on a wide open marble area. Much easier to sneak bugs towards Temari in a wide open area where there's grass, walls, tree, etc.
Ooooh, maybe this is where you're thinking the bugs have magical capabilities that they don't.
Those bugs were in Shino's original position. Remember how Zaku ran forward? He placed those, maybe a few feat from where he was standing, then got blasted back.
You pretend as though it's beyond his abilities to use trickery to get his bugs to his target using multiple vectors, but that's exactly what he does from the very beginning. No physical contact required.
The bugs didn't rush and take him out, both Zaku and Shino recognized he'd have time to blast them.
Note the actual flow of the battle- he placed bugs, then got his opponent to get between them and him, or rather, Zaku blasted him back into a new position where between himself and the bugs Zaku'd be surrounded. He didn't just "send them out" and surround Zaku like you've been saying Shino'll do to Sasuke and Temari, he laid a clever trap.
Bugs were coming in one direction only, it's just he was in the other one, and he placed that bug swarm, they didn't travel at high speed and swoop around Zaku or anything.
You haven't been saying Shino'll lay a clever trap, you've been saying 'He'll send out bugs, they'll be from too many vectors to blast, and Shino wins,' more or less. Which is not how Shino's bugs work. Shino can get some wins by clever traps, but you have specifically said that Shino'll get 10/10 against Temari because he'll send out bug swarms that'll attack from all vectors (and, somehow, doing it with a mere dozen bugs which'll somehow be enough to take out Temari or Sasuke? I still don't get that part) and overwhelm her defenses, which he never did in part one.
How Shino won? The bugs he had placed in Zaku by physical contact, because Zaku would've otherwise been able to defend himself with his air blasts, even being caught in the middle of Shino and the bugs.
What's going to stop him from sending his bugs into the stadium and have them sneak up behind her? What's going to stop him from sending bugs from any and all directions from where she cannot :
Because while they're sneaking she is just going to blast him in the face and win? This is not the "Shino's turn, then enemy's turn," show. They act at the same time and the bugs aren't that fast.
They crawl, they don't teleport.
1. See them.
2. Affect them in any way with her wind.
What makes you think she can't do either? The bugs are black and pretty obvious in groups sufficient enough to take someone out, and were regularly seen when they were in LOS.
And her wind could blast apart swarms easily. Every bug caught in the blast will be destroyed, injured, or so on.
You're very much underrating the capability to respond here.
Yet, he still gets beaten. Additionally, Zaku is by far the absolute worst person you could have used to support your argument: he also thought he could beat Shino with one arm.
He was an idiot, to be sure.
But he lost because he was an idiot, not because Shino's basic attack is "surround someone from all sides with bugs including above, which they can't do anything about."
He lost because he walked into a trap that he practically helped Shino make.
That's very much incorrect. They are all fliers. Go back and read the fight between Kankuro and Shino: he makes lots of "clouds" out of the insects in the same way they are made in part II.
Nope. He has two small bunches around his hands that stayed around his hands. Bugs never fly after Kankuro, they only travel on trees or chakra strings or jump around in the form of a clone.
In fact, there is no difference from part 1 to part II besides MAYBE having just more insects and more intelligence as a user.
Flight, number, experience are all different. Shino's leveled up.
If he had his part II attack he could've swarm and won easily even against Kankuro, no need to take Zaku's attack like he did either.
Both require the use of chakra and it will run out...especially high-level techs that they are using
Yea, but they can be used a few times to stop bug swarms and take out Shino. They might also outlast the bugs, which are finite in number.
Shino's personal chakra capacity really doesn't matter much, his endurance is measured in number of beetles.
Sasu or Temari can use their jutsu to take out Shino before the bugs get to them some of the time and can also use their jutsu to blast swarms and thus defend against his stronger attacks.