The Official Naruto series Thread

Started by dadudemon1,600 pages

Originally posted by Q99
She jumps, hits him with wind and wins. Or she blows them away, hits him with win, and wins.

Your strategy seems ineffectual. A dozen bugs at a time is pretty easy to avoid.

Yes. The bugs didn't reach because he severed them, but some others got him when they snuck up due to the queen on his headband.

You're saying she can't avoid. She's better at avoiding than Kankuro. Analogy.

Nope. The bugs only got Kankuro or his puppet when they either leapt into Shino, or by surprise. Every time they were seen coming was avoided.

The wide open area is better for Temari. That's not an argument for Shino.

If it seems like I am, it means I'm trying to point out errors in them.

Shino's supposed to send out so many bugs that she can't avoid them (which contradicts the 'send a dozen' thing, a dozen doesn't require much effort to defend against), and wear her down without being blasted?

She's .5 faster than the guy who could avoid them when they were used in large number.

You said he would defend against her winds by dodging them. I gave an example of a better dodger failing to do that.

Apples to apples.

So did Temari. She knows the field's traps now.

Shino doesn't have that many bugs, and that doesn't cover his defense.

He sends them out in every direction, she blasts one wide area clean and from there blasts Shino. Or them jumps to an area of the battlefield further from the bugs.

You're acting like Shino has unlimited bugs and can blanket the area, instead of his real much smaller supply. She only needs to deal with bugs in one path.

Up? His bugs can't fly in part 1. His bugs need to crawl around to surround someone, meaning they take time too, she can act well before she's surrounded. The bugs can travel further but they're also a much slower attack.

You are grossly overestimating his capabilities, he never does something like that in part one.

Seriously, you're pitting part 2 chunin-for-years Shino against part 1 Temari.

You're giving Shino hordes of bugs that are magically surrounding her without her doing something about it (like attacking him or them while they're moving into position) and flight, which they don't have yet.

Shino against Tobi could fly his swarms around, which is a big difference.

It's not just that, but numbers and bug speed that you're overestimating. Shino doesn't have unlimited bugs, nor can they rapidly surround someone at a distance.

I'm not. Several occasions you've said that Sasuke and Temari's jutsu won't be good for bug clearing because they'll be attacked from too many sides.

You are coming across as implying Shino'd have them easily surrounded when he attacks.

See? "Tons all over her." He's somehow getting tons all over her because they're too many to defend against?

Aside from that contradicting the 'dozen at a time', she blows away all the ones in one direction and there's more elsewhere? That'd require being surrounded. Your tactics and results for Shino all seem to assume the opponent is surrounded.

Ooooh, maybe this is where you're thinking the bugs have magical capabilities that they don't.

Those bugs were in Shino's original position. Remember how Zaku ran forward? He placed those, maybe a few feat from where he was standing, then got blasted back.

The bugs didn't rush and take him out, both Zaku and Shino recognized he'd have time to blast them.

Note the actual flow of the battle- he placed bugs, then got his opponent to get between them and him, or rather, Zaku blasted him back into a new position where between himself and the bugs Zaku'd be surrounded. He didn't just "send them out" and surround Zaku like you've been saying Shino'll do to Sasuke and Temari, he laid a clever trap.

Bugs were coming in one direction only, it's just he was in the other one, and he placed that bug swarm, they didn't travel at high speed and swoop around Zaku or anything.

You haven't been saying Shino'll lay a clever trap, you've been saying 'He'll send out bugs, they'll be from too many vectors to blast, and Shino wins,' more or less. Which is not how Shino's bugs work. Shino can get some wins by clever traps, but you have specifically said that Shino'll get 10/10 against Temari because he'll send out bug swarms that'll attack from all vectors (and, somehow, doing it with a mere dozen bugs which'll somehow be enough to take out Temari or Sasuke? I still don't get that part) and overwhelm her defenses, which he never did in part one.

How Shino won? The bugs he had placed in Zaku by physical contact, because Zaku would've otherwise been able to defend himself with his air blasts, even being caught in the middle of Shino and the bugs.

Because while they're sneaking she is just going to blast him in the face and win? This is not the "Shino's turn, then enemy's turn," show. They act at the same time and the bugs aren't that fast.

They crawl, they don't teleport.

What makes you think she can't do either? The bugs are black and pretty obvious in groups sufficient enough to take someone out, and were regularly seen when they were in LOS.

And her wind could blast apart swarms easily. Every bug caught in the blast will be destroyed, injured, or so on.

You're very much underrating the capability to respond here.

He was an idiot, to be sure.

But he lost because he was an idiot, not because Shino's basic attack is "surround someone from all sides with bugs including above, which they can't do anything about."

He lost because he walked into a trap that he practically helped Shino make.

Nope. He has two small bunches around his hands that stayed around his hands. Bugs never fly after Kankuro, they only travel on trees or chakra strings or jump around in the form of a clone.

Flight, number, experience are all different. Shino's leveled up.

If he had his part II attack he could've swarm and won easily even against Kankuro, no need to take Zaku's attack like he did either.

Yea, but they can be used a few times to stop bug swarms and take out Shino. They might also outlast the bugs, which are finite in number.

Shino's personal chakra capacity really doesn't matter much, his endurance is measured in number of beetles.

Sasu or Temari can use their jutsu to take out Shino before the bugs get to them some of the time and can also use their jutsu to blast swarms and thus defend against his stronger attacks.

1. I love you.
2. I am pressed for time. I may respond after midnight, CST.

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. I love you.
2. I am pressed for time. I may respond after midnight, CST.

That is my line. No stealing. >_>

And as for the argument, gonna say I'd give it to Temari in a straight up fight with Shino.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And as for the argument, gonna say I'd give it to Temari in a straight up fight with Shino.

How dare you, TRAITOR!

Meh, I think Shino wins, easily. It's basically a Shika. Temari fight all over again but this time, Shino isn't subject to massive chakra loss like Shika was. He saw the fight so he can employ similar tactics. Temari can't really do much different besides blow his bugs away in the air, thus wearing herself out. There's also the "ground" factor: she won't be able to see them crawling in the grass, nor be able to blow them away very well.

?

This is like the 12th time I've sided with QT as opposed to you. Nothing new.

This "He saw her fighting" thing goes both ways. Temari saw him fighting Zaku and understands what kind of strategist he is and how quickly he can think ahead. She'll go for a long distance strategy and make sure to keep an eye out for the general area. Shino has no real answer to her wind techniques except trying to tough through them. And let's not forget about her summon, which would greatly turn the tide in her favor if she needed it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
?

This is like the 12th time I've sided with QT as opposed to you. Nothing new.

😆

It's a joke. 😖

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
This "He saw her fighting" thing goes both ways. Temari saw him fighting Zaku and understands what kind of strategist he is and how quickly he can think ahead. She'll go for a long distance strategy and make sure to keep an eye out for the general area. Shino has no real answer to her wind techniques except trying to tough through them. And let's not forget about her summon, which would greatly turn the tide in her favor if she needed it.

It doesn't really go both ways, actually. Temari stands to lose a lot of "tactical advantage" because Shino got to see her fight someone that will have a similar "approach" to the fight as Shino would with none Shika's weaknesses and even more options to "get her."

She know of his abilities before the fight. However, a similar setup did not exist for Shino to see how things could play out.

I don't think I am explaining what I mean too well, after reading over that. I cannot put it into words too well. But this is it: Shino gains much more from watching her fight Shika than she does from watching him fight Zaku.

I disagree, obviously.

What Shino would learn from Temari vs Shika:

She's smart and prefers to stay at a distance. That's basically it, the latter not even anything new as it could be inferred from the Tenten fight.

What Temari would learn from Shino vs Zaku:

He does subtle movements. His bugs can move as stealthy as normal bugs but can be controlled. Don't get near the bugs and you stand a chance. She would also learn that he is clever, at least against stupid opponents.

What we know:

Shino is not as smart as Shika. He simply isn't. He appears strategically fine but there are flaws in his plans. In his Kankuro fight, Shino won but it put him an inch away from losing and was far more reckless than anything Shika would do. Temari couldn't outsmart Shikamaru but Shino is far closer to her in tactical strategy. Smarts do not give him that much of an advantage.

And I've yet to hear an answer to Temari's summon.

Originally posted by killermover
1 - Uzumaki Naruto - 6880 votes
2 - Uchiha Sasuke - 5791 votes
3 - Hatake Kakashi - 4828 votes
4 - Gaara - 4239 votes
5 - Uchiha Itachi - 4011 votes
6 - Deidara - 3623 votes
7 - Namikaze Minato - 3477 votes
8 - Sasori - 3152 votes
9 - Nara Shikamaru - 2533 votes
10 - Hyuuga Hinata - 2517 votes
11 - Umino Iruka - 2494 votes
12 - Haruno Sakura - 2188 votes
12 - Sai - 2188 votes

From the laest popularity poll.

http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=527462

1,2,3 Obvious.
4... I have never liked Gaara.
5,6,7 Obvious choices. Two are my faves though so I like it.
8...Really? I mean, really?
9,10 Classic choices.
11 needs to die.
12's Sai I sorta get. Glad to see people still like Sakura. I think this was her first time out of the top ten wasn't it?

So we know some of Japans favorites. Anyone have a particular favorite not loved by Japan? 😮

New chapter's out.

I don't know what the **** actually happened, though.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
New chapter's out.

I don't know what the **** actually happened, though.

I understand it, somewhat. But, yeah, I don't know what really happened in some parts.

I do know that Hanzo had some sort of Flash Back to Pain kicking his butt.

I do not know, however, how Hanzo was able to dominate the three Sannin and Pain dominated Hanzo. I think it's an ability matchup: Pain's abilities just made Hanzo's really fast movements and poisen techs null. I can understand how Hanzo could take out an entire platoon of very skilled ninjas: his poisen gas seems to be very quick and it incapacitates quickly. That makes him fairly hard to physically touch without a gas-mask.

I like how the Samurai are basically anti-ninja units. That adds to their awesomeness and makes them useful.

Also, Mifune is apparantly, quite badass. He's really fast to be able to keep up with Hanzo IN ADDITION to having a really really really durable sword.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And I've yet to hear an answer to Temari's summon.

That summon occurs AFTER the events of the Chuunin exam. If she had it, she would have used it to "foxhole" out Shika. She doesn't have it for the Chuunin exams.

Since Mifune was so fast, we still don't really know Hanzo's full capacity. His ninjutsu is still an unknown.

All we really know is that Hanzo has the summon *and* is so good in melee he's almost a match for Mifune, only losing on sword power. Considering Mifune seems to be S-ranked on sword skill alone...

Originally posted by dadudemon

Meh, I think Shino wins, easily. It's basically a Shika. Temari fight all over again but this time, Shino isn't subject to massive chakra loss like Shika was. He saw the fight so he can employ similar tactics. Temari can't really do much different besides blow his bugs away in the air, thus wearing herself out. There's also the "ground" factor: she won't be able to see them crawling in the grass, nor be able to blow them away very well.

But (1) Bugs aren't nearly as fast as shadow, (2) Bugs are limited in number so killing them reduces Shino's capacity, (3) Shino's not Shika smart, (4) He can't make her stay at a distance like Shikamaru can. Even if a spot near him is unsafe due to bugs she can literally just make it safe. No, she won't have any problem blowing away the bugs, her wind's quite high power (and a lot of the ground is pretty clear and bugs'd be quite visible), and (5) Shino still lacks a good defense against just being hit by her wind blasts.

In both of his fights he got major hits on him, the Kankuro poison almost killing him. He's going to get hit against her here too, and lose. Defense is his major weakness.

Originally posted by Q99
She jumps, hits him with wind and wins. Or she blows them away, hits him with win, and wins.

"Sending on a dozen or so at a time, getting her to wear herself out, is definitely an easy way to win. He could do that while funneling some in the hole in the ground Naruto made."

"She's not jumping around a very small number. She ends up with tons all over her as she wears herself out trying to "blow" the rest away...and she passes out from the others draining her. "

Originally posted by Q99
Your strategy seems ineffectual. A dozen bugs at a time is pretty easy to avoid.

"One is a wide open area and the other is a heavily wooded area."

"you seem to be forgetting how they magically appear behind Zaku on a wide open marble area. Much easier to sneak bugs towards Temari in a wide open area where there's grass, walls, tree, etc."

Originally posted by Q99
Yes. The bugs didn't reach because he severed them, but some others got him when they snuck up due to the queen on his headband.

"You're also comparing apples to oranges..."

"One is a wide open area and the other is a heavily wooded area."

Why does he need to tag Temari with a female bug when he can clearly see where's she's going?

Originally posted by Q99
You're saying she can't avoid. She's better at avoiding than Kankuro. Analogy.

"You're also comparing apples to oranges..."

"One is a wide open area and the other is a heavily wooded area."

"he has a greater range and more attack vectors. Temari's movements are actually much more limited as she pretty much will have to pivot and spam the wind attack in all directions which include 'up.'"

"he can send bugs in every single vector out in the open. She can only do so much wind thrashing to avoid Shino's bugs."

"She jumps away from some to jump right into some more OR she uses her wind to blow them away and uses up her chakra."

Originally posted by Q99
Nope. The bugs only got Kankuro or his puppet when they either leapt into Shino, or by surprise. Every time they were seen coming was avoided.

"You're also comparing apples to oranges..."

"Sending on a dozen or so at a time, getting her to wear herself out, is definitely an easy way to win. He could do that while funneling some in the hole in the ground Naruto made."

"She's not jumping around a very small number. She ends up with tons all over her as she wears herself out trying to "blow" the rest away...and she passes out from the others draining her. "

"you seem to be forgetting how they magically appear behind Zaku on a wide open marble area. Much easier to sneak bugs towards Temari in a wide open area where there's grass, walls, tree, etc."

"One is a wide open area and the other is a heavily wooded area."

"You do realize that this is almost a completely useless discussion, right? Temari is NOT Kankuro. Different fight, different tactics."

Originally posted by Q99
The wide open area is better for Temari. That's not an argument for Shino.

"They are very hard to avoid when they can't be seen in really small numbers, as we clearly saw in his fight with Kankuro. "

"She's not jumping around a very small number. She ends up with tons all over her as she wears herself out trying to "blow" the rest away...and she passes out from the others draining her. "

"Sending on a dozen or so at a time, getting her to wear herself out, is definitely an easy way to win. He could do that while funneling some in the hole in the ground Naruto made."

"Shino...has a greater range and more attack vectors. Temari's movements are actually much more limited as she pretty much will have to pivot and spam the wind attack in all directions which include "up."

"Unlike Kankuro who can continually retreat in the opposite direction, she only has a finite amount of space to jump to before she overlaps on her vectors."

Originally posted by Q99
If it seems like I am, it means I'm trying to point out errors in them.

Not applicable. You avoid the point and address something else. It's a strawman.

Originally posted by Q99
Shino's supposed to send out so many bugs that she can't avoid them (which contradicts the 'send a dozen' thing, a dozen doesn't require much effort to defend against), and wear her down without being blasted?.

Finally, the first "new" argument brought to the discussion.

This is not a contradiction, this is you not understanding what I was saying. Shino sends out a lot of bugs, but in packs of dozens or so. He sends these in multiple vectors, all over the place, in different time of arrivals, and in different numbers. Just a few was all it took to eat away at Kankuro's chakra strings. Landing any on her is a war of attrition.

Again, this:

"She's not jumping around a very small number. She ends up with tons all over her as she wears herself out trying to "blow" the rest away...and she passes out from the others draining her. "

As she's avoiding, she's also getting some on her. She uses up her chakra as she keeps spamming her tech WHILE getting more and more on her until she has no chakra left and...

"Shino then pisses on her corpse."

Why is this?

"Shino...has a greater range and more attack vectors. Temari's movements are actually much more limited as she pretty much will have to pivot and spam the wind attack in all directions which include "up."

"Unlike Kankuro who can continually retreat in the opposite direction, she only has a finite amount of space to jump to before she overlaps on her vectors."

Originally posted by Q99
She's .5 faster than the guy who could avoid them when they were used in large number.

"You're also comparing apples to oranges..."

"Unlike Kankuro who can continually retreat in the opposite direction, she only has a finite amount of space to jump to before she overlaps on her vectors."

"Shino...has a greater range and more attack vectors. Temari's movements are actually much more limited as she pretty much will have to pivot and spam the wind attack in all directions which include "up."

"She's not jumping around a very small number. She ends up with tons all over her as she wears herself out trying to "blow" the rest away...and she passes out from the others draining her. "

Originally posted by Q99
You said he would defend against her winds by dodging them. I gave an example of a better dodger failing to do that.

Apples to apples.

Dude......seriously? 😬

"What's stopping him from avoiding the wind?"

"Shikamaru doesn't have a good defense against that."

"He ran and hid in cover pretty much the entire time."

Originally posted by Q99
So did Temari. She knows the field's traps now.

And? That doesn't change what I've stated. It doesn't even address it. My point is much more holistic than just, "He or she saw the fight so they are aware of the field." You'd have to have read everything I said prior to understand why Shino seeing her fight was a big deal.

Originally posted by Q99
Shino doesn't have that many bugs, and that doesn't cover his defense.

You say this as if you brought it up first:

"there is no difference from part 1 to part II besides MAYBE having just more insects and more intelligence as a user."

It's not cut and dry as there's no official source that states he has more. In fact, he had a very very large number of them against Zaku. So much so that it blanketed a very large area on the floor.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-69-page-19.html

And these were bugs that we have no idea where they came from. They “magically” appeared there. He still had tons of bugs in his body, as seen from Neji’s scan.

Originally posted by Q99
He sends them out in every direction, she blasts one wide area clean and from there blasts Shino. Or them jumps to an area of the battlefield further from the bugs.

He sends them out in every direction, she blasts one wide area clean and from there blasts Shino. Or them jumps to an area of the battlefield further from the bugs.

Your point fails: she cannot blast one in a very wide area until after she's improved in the Rescue Sasuke Arc. On top of that, that doesn't cover but a very small area around her person. We are talking about 3 dimensions, not just the 100 degrees direclty in front of her.

Also, this:

"She's not jumping around a very small number. She ends up with tons all over her as she wears herself out trying to "blow" the rest away...and she passes out from the others draining her. "

“Shino sends out a lot of bugs, but in packs of dozens or so. He sends these in multiple vectors, all over the place, in different time of arrivals, and in different numbers. War of attrition ”

Originally posted by Q99
You're acting like Shino has unlimited bugs and can blanket the area, instead of his real much smaller supply. She only needs to deal with bugs in one path.

“Shino sends out a lot of bugs, but in packs of dozens or so. He sends these in multiple vectors, all over the place, in different time of arrivals, and in different numbers. War of attrition ”

“It's not cut and dry as there's no official source that states he has more. In fact, he had a very very large number of them against Zaku. So much so that it blanketed a very large area on the floor.”

Originally posted by Q99
Up? His bugs can't fly in part 1. His bugs need to crawl around to surround someone, meaning they take time too, she can act well before she's surrounded. The bugs can travel further but they're also a much slower attack.

“That's very much incorrect. They are all fliers. Go back and read the fight between Kankuro and Shino: he makes lots of "clouds" out of the insects in the same way they are made in part II.

In fact, there is no difference from part 1 to part II besides MAYBE having just more insects and more intelligence as a user.”

Originally posted by Q99
You are grossly overestimating his capabilities, he never does something like that in part one.

Wrong, you’re grossly underestimating his capabilities and over estimating hers because:

1. You think she can protect her self in a much wider area than she can and completely ignore all the attack vectors Shino has.
2. Pretend as though is very large quantity of bugs is some how too small to be used.
3. Are trying to gimp Shino by pretending his bugs cannot fly when all of them can.

Originally posted by Q99
Seriously, you're pitting part 2 chunin-for-years Shino against part 1 Temari.

Since you’re wrong about Shino’s attritubetes, pretend it is Part II Shino against Part I Chuunin exame Temari. Does that change your arguments?

Originally posted by Q99
You're giving Shino hordes of bugs that are magically surrounding her without her doing something about it (like attacking him or them while they're moving into position) and flight, which they don't have yet.

You can call it magic; I’ll just stick with what it actually is: he tells his bugs what to do and they do it. He said in his fight with Zaku that he tells his bugs what to do with his mind. So, that’s even LESS chakra than I thought. I do not understand why you want Temari to win so badly to the point of being wrong, factually, about Shino’s attributes. Is your desire for Shino to lose so bad that you are ignoring Shino’s abilities? Isn’t that bad form?

Originally posted by Q99
Shino against Tobi could fly his swarms around, which is a big difference.

Addressed this already.

Originally posted by Q99
It's not just that, but numbers and bug speed that you're overestimating. Shino doesn't have unlimited bugs, nor can they rapidly surround someone at a distance.

Addressed this already, too.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm not. Several occasions you've said that Sasuke and Temari's jutsu won't be good for bug clearing because they'll be attacked from too many sides.

Yes you are and I indicated how you were. Instead of admitting fault, you’ve indicated why what you just said was lying about my position. Multiple Attack vectors and creating a bug coffin are two different things.

Originally posted by Q99
You are coming across as implying Shino'd have them easily surrounded when he attacks.

No, that’s you lying about my position to have something to argue against. It’s a tactic used in debates when people are running out of counter-arguments and it’s very “bad form.” What I stated was quite clear.

Originally posted by Q99
See? "Tons all over her." He's somehow getting tons all over her because they're too many to defend against?

Yeah, you like, totally missed the point there.

Jumping into several bugs to avoid other bugs, many times over, is how she ends up with “tons all-over.” That’s you not comprehending something, not me saying he’s going to make a bug coffin.

It was really obvious because…you know…how is Shino supposed to wage a war of attrition by sending them all at once, attempting to make a bug coffin? Does it make sense, now, why you misunderstood?

Originally posted by Q99
she blows away all the ones in one direction and there's more elsewhere? That'd require being surrounded. Your tactics and results for Shino all seem to assume the opponent is surrounded.

Why in the world is this escaping you? It’s fairly simple.

Originally posted by Q99
Ooooh, maybe this is where you're thinking the bugs have magical capabilities that they don't.

“You can call it magic; I’ll just stick with what it actually is.”

Originally posted by Q99
Those bugs were in Shino's original position. Remember how Zaku ran forward? He placed those, maybe a few feat from where he was standing, then got blasted back.

Wrong. That’s not what happened. Go back and reread it.

Here’s what ACTUALLY happened:

The started out in the middle with Shino on the “left.”

Exchanged typical shounin words, Zaku jumped at Shino, Shino blocked, Zaku blasted him with the sound blast tech, Shino went flying. Shino gets up, Zaku remains in the SAME spot from where he attacked Shino, and the bugs magically appear BEHIND Zaku.

Go back and read chapter 69, again.

Originally posted by Q99
The bugs didn't rush and take him out, both Zaku and Shino recognized he'd have time to blast them.

Note the actual flow of the battle- he placed bugs, then got his opponent to get between them and him, or rather, Zaku blasted him back into a new position where between himself and the bugs Zaku'd be surrounded. He didn't just "send them out" and surround Zaku like you've been saying Shino'll do to Sasuke and Temari, he laid a clever trap.

Bugs were coming in one direction only, it's just he was in the other one, and he placed that bug swarm, they didn't travel at high speed and swoop around Zaku or anything.

And now you’re gimping Shino by pretending Shino will not use multiple attack vectors. Why did Shino need to send out anymore bugs than he did? Simple: he had clogged up Zaku’s “tubes.” He would also want to, intelligently, keep his tactics to a minimum to save some for later.

Originally posted by Q99
You haven't been saying Shino'll lay a clever trap, you've been saying 'He'll send out bugs, they'll be from too many vectors to blast, and Shino wins,' more or less. Which is not how Shino's bugs work. Shino can get some wins by clever traps, but you have specifically said that Shino'll get 10/10 against Temari because he'll send out bug swarms that'll attack from all vectors (and, somehow, doing it with a mere dozen bugs which'll somehow be enough to take out Temari or Sasuke? I still don't get that part) and overwhelm her defenses, which he never did in part one.

You seem to think that using “multiple attack vectors” and “clever traps” are NOT synonymous when it’s quite obvious that they are ESPECIALLY since we saw him use “two” attack vectors against Zaku.

Originally posted by Q99
How Shino won? The bugs he had placed in Zaku by physical contact, because Zaku would've otherwise been able to defend himself with his air blasts, even being caught in the middle of Shino and the bugs.

Shino won by using multiple attack vectors. 😬

Originally posted by Q99
Because while they're sneaking she is just going to blast him in the face and win? This is not the "Shino's turn, then enemy's turn," show. They act at the same time and the bugs aren't that fast.

They crawl, they don't teleport.

And this is where you go from almost rational to completely irrational. No one said it was turn based nor did they even come close to implying that. You cannot make up points and then argue against them. That’s just weird, for one. Secondly, you are LOVING ignoring the fact that Shika seemed to keep cover just fine. But then you’re like, “ZOMG! She couldn’t come close to him because Shika has shadow techies!” Then I’m like, “how can she get close when the ground has lots of bugs around Shino. If she moves closer, she moves closer to getting bugs on her. If she moves to the side to get a better angle, she moves closer to get more bugs on her. If she fans her fan thing, they stay protected in the many other places I’ve indicated they go including the grass. There’s also the hole that Naruto dug.

Originally posted by Q99
What makes you think she can't do either? The bugs are black and pretty obvious in groups sufficient enough to take someone out, and were regularly seen when they were in LOS.

Addressed this already. Waste of time.

Originally posted by Q99
And her wind could blast apart swarms easily. Every bug caught in the blast will be destroyed, injured, or so on.

Addressed this already. It’s like you pretend what I say meant something else and argue against that point. Why?

Originally posted by Q99
You're very much underrating the capability to respond here.

“No u.”

Originally posted by Q99
He was an idiot, to be sure.

ZOMG! We agreed on something!

Originally posted by Q99
But he lost because he was an idiot, not because Shino's basic attack is "surround someone from all sides with bugs including above, which they can't do anything about."

No, that’s exactly why he lost. Please tell me how many attack vectors Shino was using. This may be the reason we aren’t on the same page .

Additionally, the idea that he couldn’t quickly blast Shino and then quickly blast the bugs speaks volumes to your false notion that the bugs are slowly crawling about. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
He lost because he walked into a trap that he practically helped Shino make.

No, he lost because Shino didn’t have to do much to surround his opponent because of how broken his bug skills are. I’d say that a really fast person would fair better against Shino.

Originally posted by Q99
Nope. He has two small bunches around his hands that stayed around his hands. Bugs never fly after Kankuro, they only travel on trees or chakra strings or jump around in the form of a clone.

Did I say that they bugs flew at Kankuro? Nope. Just said he made clouds out of them.

I also like the fact that you don’t admit you’re wrong about them not being able to fly.

Originally posted by Q99
Flight, number, experience are all different. Shino's leveled up.

Even though you just admitted they could fly, you’re still trying to pretend that they can’t fly.

Number, I semi-agree. We really don’t know.

Experience, yes.

Originally posted by Q99
If he had his part II attack he could've swarm and won easily even against Kankuro, no need to take Zaku's attack like he did either.

I disagree. Kankuro just retreats, just like he did, while attack him with his puppets. It’s also far easier to avoid if he does that, which is why he didn’t do that against Kankuro.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but they can be used a few times to stop bug swarms and take out Shino. They might also outlast the bugs, which are finite in number.

This, we partially agree on. I think they can take out some bugs but in doing so, they open themselves up from other vectors. You stop once piece of the assault and 4 pieces come in to fill it’s place. That’s my perspective on the whole Temari matchup.

Originally posted by Q99
Shino's personal chakra capacity really doesn't matter much, his endurance is measured in number of beetles.

I agree.

Originally posted by Q99
Sasu or Temari can use their jutsu to take out Shino before the bugs get to them some of the time and can also use their jutsu to blast swarms and thus defend against his stronger attacks.

I disagree and have indicated why.

Man. It took like an hour to reply because I had to find the proper quotes to requite myself over and over.

What I gigantic waste of time.

If you reply to all of that, I’ll ignore most of it and just re-quote: “I think they can take out some bugs but in doing so, they open themselves up from other vectors. You stop once piece of the assault and 4 pieces come in to fill it’s place. That’s my perspective on the whole Temari matchup.” Because we’ve talked this discussion into oblivion.

Someone did mention Naruto possibly overtaxing Shino's ability to absorb chakra due to the finite amount of bugs he has. I MAY agree to that...but I'm not sure.

Apparantly, Kakashi thinks the Hyuuga are the greatest bloodline:

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-78-page-5.html


You can call it magic; I’ll just stick with what it actually is: he tells his bugs what to do and they do it. He said in his fight with Zaku that he tells his bugs what to do with his mind.

Yea, but they don't instantly appear a distance away or anything of the sort. They didn't magically appear, they travelled a very short distance from his known location.

Him controlling them with his mind to lay a trap involving the bugs traveling maybe 6 feet on the ground =/= they can rapidly attack someone from many angles unavoidably distance.

So, that’s even LESS chakra than I thought.

Again, chakra amount is not his main limiter. Ability to defend, number of bugs, and speed/travel ability of bugs is.

You're acting like chakra grants him unlimited bugs or super fast bugs or something. I'm not exactly sure where you're getting his uber capabilities from, but they don't do that.


Did I say that they bugs flew at Kankuro? Nope. Just said he made clouds out of them.

"Clouds" that never move more than two feet from his hands and never fly at someone and surround them. They're small swarms around his hands, that never act like you say they will despite that it would be very useful.

Hover or go a very short distance, maybe (though most of them may be climbing on each other and not flying at all), but fly and attack? No, their means of delivery was basically punching.

I also like the fact that you don’t admit you’re wrong about them not being able to fly.

Possibly only because they never do fly at anyone in the manner you stay. They crawled (or in clone form, jumped) in every single attack they did in part 1 bar none.

I do not understand why you want Temari to win so badly to the point of being wrong, factually, about Shino’s attributes. Is your desire for Shino to lose so bad that you are ignoring Shino’s abilities? Isn’t that bad form?

No, you're the one being wrong about Shino's abilities. Shino doesn't do attacks on this level and saying "Oh, but he totally can have his bugs do all this uber stuff," doesn't go back and change part 1 to put those abilities there.

You're ascribing his abilities far more ability that they demonstrate in part 1! None of his attacks that he uses in part one are nearly so hard to avoid, fast, powerful, or as numerous as you claim. You're saying that she won't be able to avoid this attack or that one, all of which have attributes much higher than his actual attacks, which were far more avoidable. In bug capability and number.

Heck, I know what you're describing him like! You're acting like he's Bug Gaara!

Shino is not bug Gaara.

Originally posted by Q99
Heck, I know what you're describing him like! You're acting like he's Bug Gaara!

Shino is not bug Gaara.

You can call it whatever you want, I prefer to call it a bug coffin.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You can call it whatever you want, I prefer to call it a bug coffin.

This is the problem. You're ignoring what his attacks actually were like.

Originally posted by Q99
This is the problem. You're ignoring what his attacks actually were like.

Get off my nuts and find a real reason to post at me.

Do you HONESTLY think I believe that the "bug coffin" crushes the enemy with squishy little bugs? Or MAYBE...just MAYBE...I say bug coffin out of jest? The answer is a "duh": it's a nice visual. 😄

When talking about Bleach, I call a certain someone "sea-shell head." Do you honestly think that I believe he has sea-shells on his head? But you'd know who I was talking about.

Originally posted by Q99
Heck, I know what you're describing him like! You're acting like he's Bug Gaara!

Shino is not bug Gaara.

😆

This made me chuckle.

Temari wins people. It's not that hard to see why. Now can we please return to the chapter talk?

Chiyo, you're awesome. So are you, pervy Samurai gai! =D

Originally posted by dadudemon
Get off my nuts and find a real reason to post at me.

Do you HONESTLY think I believe that the "bug coffin" crushes the enemy with squishy little bugs? Or MAYBE...just MAYBE...I say bug coffin out of jest? The answer is a "duh": it's a nice visual. 😄

You get that Bug Gaara is an analogy right? I know you're thinking of them attacking in the normal bug way, but you're still acting like he's Bug Gaara!

The speed you attribute him as having, the multi-vector attack, the quantity of attack, that's just how Gaara fights!

Though a Bug Shield strikes me as far messier and less effective even then, so on defense Bug Gaara is still in trouble ^^