The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Well, Minato does have a pretty broken jutsu (FTG), is insanely fast even without said tech, and has very good reactions to boot. Plus he has great knowledge of space-time techs, one of which, pretty much renders any chakra blast moot. It would likely render moot other attacks as well, eg. Chibaku Tensei (via porting the Magnetic core).
I still think Minato > Kushina, but mostly because we don't know the full extent of Kushina's abilities.

It may simply be that Kushina's more blasty and has more raw power than him, but, well, Flying Thunder God pretty much won the war. No-one can win fights faster than him. And not only his time-space but his seal jutsu too means that even for stuff too tough to simply outspeed he's pretty well off.

Plus leadership wise he's probably better, no offense to Kushina.

I'd think in the war, Kushina would probably be used for two main purposes, fighting other jinchuuriki (there's few counters to them as good as your own equal or stronger biju carrier) and spearheading major assaults. Minato, on the other hand, could react to enemy assaults left and right, and could do the really dangerous behind-the-enemy-line stuff with little risk of being cut off or even stopped, like when he blew up the bridge in Kakashi Gaiden. Kushina's a battering ram-slash-immovable wall, which is awesome and all, but Minato's the S-class that is *always there* where you need him.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Fanboi. ahah

I will never ever deny this! He's like...my brother or something: I wanna be a pervy sage too! 🙁

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nah, she created the Chakra Chain Barrier with her, Minato, Naruto, & the restrained Kyuubi all inside it. Her CCB somehow standing up to the Kyuubi's Menacing Ball would be moot, seeing as the Menacing Ball explodes, and if the Chakra Chain Barrier stopped the Menacing Ball, the explosion would pretty much have vaped everything inside the barrier, Kyuubi excluded (perhaps).
So I don't think the CCB could stop Menacing Balls, as that is not what it was intended for.
I do, however, think that the Chakra Chains she used for restraining the Kyuubi could somehow restrict the Kyuubi from using Menacing Balls, seeing as the Kyuubi has never used one when chained up, whereas the attack is pretty much its go-to attack when pissed off. The chains pretty much restricted the Kyuubi to the point where it could only launch a physical attack after Kushina stared coughing. Hell, it looked like it couldn't even move prior to that.

What I'm saying is that Kushina would never have used that Barrier in the way she did, had the Kyuubi been able to use its Menacing Balls while restrained. She knows it can use the attack, and both Minato and she know how devastating the explosion is, so sealing themselves up in a barrier that would contain the explosion of the attack would be suicide.

EDIT: As for who else can get to her...Madara, Minato (seeing as the FTG seal is integrated into her Kyuubi seal)...I'll see if I can think of more 😛

The barrier was made specifically to hold the Kyuubi inside due to how dangerous it was. If it couldn't stand up to a biju blast, then it would be a useless barrier. I don't think it would kill the biju, but it would give the Konoha nin time to come up with and execute a "capture the biju" plan.

To me, that makes it the third or second most powerful shield in Naruto.

And yeah, Madara and Minato could definitely get it. I would say that Kakashi's Yamui tech would work, too. Other than space-time jutsus? No-dice. I don't see how anyone could get in especially if she has the most powerful biju with her, already.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I will never ever deny this! He's like...my brother or something: I wanna be a pervy sage too! 🙁

The barrier was made specifically to hold the Kyuubi inside due to how dangerous it was. If it couldn't stand up to a biju blast, then it would be a useless barrier. I don't think it would kill the biju, but it would give the Konoha nin time to come up with and execute a "capture the biju" plan.

To me, that makes it the third or second most powerful shield in Naruto.

And yeah, Madara and Minato could definitely get it. I would say that Kakashi's Yamui tech would work, too. Other than space-time jutsus? No-dice. I don't see how anyone could get in especially if she has the most powerful biju with her, already.

I'd rather have Minato or Asuma as my older brother...they're cooler than Jiraiya, but it's mainly cause I could get easier access to Kushina or Kurenai. 😖hifty:

You haven't really refuted anything I stated. The hole in your reasoning is that Kushina created the barrier with herself inside it.
The barrier has only been used in conjunction with her chakra chains, and are a by-product of her chakra chains; chains which restricted the Kyuubi to the point where it could barely move. Menacing Balls were out of the question, otherwise, the Kyuubi would have used them to try and escape.
Now, let's suppose the Kyuubi could in fact use Menacing Balls, and the barrier could withstand them, as you believe. If the barrier could stand up to Menacing Balls, the explosion would be contained, and mostly everything inside the barrier would be vaporized. Seeing as Kushina had her entire family inside the barrier, I doubt she or Minato would resort to using a barrier that could lead to Naruto's death. Seems very retarded when Minato wanted to die so that his son could save the world.

The barrier that the Sound 4 used was also powerful enough that it would destroy anyone else that touched the barrier. Kushina's barrier has no such effect. So IMO, I think you're grossly overestimating the barrier.

Anybody that can burrow through the ground may be able to get through the barrier as well.

Finally Chouji has gone skinny Ive been waiting for this moment since shippuden started

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'd rather have Minato or Asuma as my older brother...they're cooler than Jiraiya, but it's mainly cause I could get easier access to Kushina or Kurenai. 😖hifty:

Well, by that logic, you'd want to be Sasuke because, apparently, he can get access to just about any women.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You haven't really refuted anything I stated. The hole in your reasoning is that Kushina created the barrier with herself inside it.

Well, see, I think that your reasoning doesn't refute anything I've stated. The fact the Kushina is inside, I think, strengthens my point.

She was dedicated enough to die and attempt to get the Biju sealed...you know...that whole "ninja way" thing?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The barrier has only been used in conjunction with her chakra chains, and are a by-product of her chakra chains; chains which restricted the Kyuubi to the point where it could barely move. Menacing Balls were out of the question, otherwise, the Kyuubi would have used them to try and escape.

Because it would be futile to use one, of course. Keep in mind that a menacing ball was taken care of, already, by Minato. There's also the fact that he could kill himself in the blast...but would revive several years later, like it was stated (if he dies, he'll come back eventually.) He was kind of not too keen on death.

The fact that the barrier exists, period, is evidence enough of Kushina wanting to contain the Kyuubi so no matter what the interpretation, the barrier has to...contain the Kyuubi. Physical attacks or energy attacks must be able to stand up to it else the barrier is futile and useless.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Now, let's suppose the Kyuubi could in fact use Menacing Balls, and the barrier could withstand them, as you believe. If the barrier could stand up to Menacing Balls, the explosion would be contained, and mostly everything inside the barrier would be vaporized. Seeing as Kushina had her entire family inside the barrier, I doubt she or Minato would resort to using a barrier that could lead to Naruto's death. Seems very retarded when Minato wanted to die so that his son could save the world.

This is quite easy to explain: the lives of the thousands of Konoha people were obviously greater than their three lives. They were also fairly confident that they could reseal the Kyuubi into their son but obviously, Kushina took proper precautions.

If you think that Kushina and Minato were so selfish as to only think of just their son and not anyone else, then I think you have misjudged their characters, entirely. Minato is the 4th Hokage and had a very strong sense of duty to his people. He's referenced, many times over, as having saved the village from the Kyuubi.

The barrier that the Sound 4 used was also powerful enough that it would destroy anyone else that touched the barrier. Kushina's barrier has no such effect. So IMO, I think you're grossly overestimating the barrier.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Anybody that can burrow through the ground may be able to get through the barrier as well.

Thought of that, already: the barrier is just like any other barrier in Naruto: it protects under the ground as well.

Just like the sound four's barrier.

It would be rather retarded if it didn't, would it not?

Why didn't Sarutobi just get under it? He was obviously desperate to help Minato? Surely a genius of Sarutobi's caliber would know he could just burrow under it, right?

What was the point of the barrier if the kyuubi could just dig himself out very quickly?

Yea, Hiruzen is Earth-natured after all, I think it's probably even his affinity.

---
Being restrained by the chains might be enough to prevent menace-ball- I mean, collecting a menace ball involves gathering a lot of chakra, generally they pose and 'inhale' and such. Normally when a menace ball is done the Biju's unrestricted. Tied up or grappled and that may be difficult.

The Kushina wankage is awful. Please stop. Unless it's the good kind of wankage. Which this is not. facepalm

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The Kushina wankage is awful. Please stop. Unless it's the good kind of wankage. Which this is not. facepalm

Ok, point is, here's what we know: She has a physical jutsu that is strong enough to hold the fox. It does not prevent the fox from physically acting and it can eventually rip free (though, when it did so she was low on chakra), but can hold it for quite awhile.

It can also be used to make barriers that can keep Hiruzen out and the Fox in, at least in the short term.

There is no sign it cannot be used on anything else, and some sign it can, affecting both ground and Konoha ninja.

She knows people who know the jutsu to use multi-tailed forms. Her chakra is said to be good for controlling- not suppressing, mind you, controlling, a biju hosted within her. She's shown no signs of having a wood-jutsu-like ability to affect the chakra of other biju/jinchuuriki.

She is a master seal user who taught Minato, and is from a clan who's seal use alone made them fear.

Her husban has a jutsu directly based on the menace ball.

Whether or not her chains or barrier can stop the fox's menace ball and similar things is unknown, but... even what we definitely know of her abilities either through seeing it or from what ninja near her have said and shown, is rather high level. Fox transformation, chains that are Biju-level physical power that can be used against non-biju, and master-level seals.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The Kushina wankage is awful. Please stop. Unless it's the good kind of wankage. Which this is not. facepalm

😆 😆 😆

Honestly, I'm not that much of Kushina fan. I just think that after the "flashback" we got of her, it's pretty solid that she's quite the powerful ninja.

Originally posted by Q99
Ok, point is, here's what we know: She has a physical jutsu that is strong enough to hold the fox. It does not prevent the fox from physically acting and it can eventually rip free (though, when it did so she was low on chakra), but can hold it for quite awhile.

It can also be used to make barriers that can keep Hiruzen out and the Fox in, at least in the short term.

There is no sign it cannot be used on anything else, and some sign it can, affecting both ground and Konoha ninja.

She knows people who know the jutsu to use multi-tailed forms. Her chakra is said to be good for controlling- not suppressing, mind you, controlling, a biju hosted within her. She's shown no signs of having a wood-jutsu-like ability to affect the chakra of other biju/jinchuuriki.

She is a master seal user who taught Minato, and is from a clan who's seal use alone made them fear.

Her husban has a jutsu directly based on the menace ball.

Whether or not her chains or barrier can stop the fox's menace ball and similar things is unknown, but... even what we definitely know of her abilities either through seeing it or from what ninja near her have said and shown, is rather high level. Fox transformation, chains that are Biju-level physical power that can be used against non-biju, and master-level seals.

Well said: you're much better at this than I am.

I think the barrier has to, at a minimum, be able to block a menacing ball from destroying everything around her. But, that's almost baseless of me to assume. Not wholly baseless, but mostly baseless. We do know the barrier was enough to keep Hiruzan out who was an uber badass with jutsus. The only other person I think that could have figured out a way past that barrier (without space-time manip) is Oro.

Hiruzen may've been able to get past with time; we just know that he concluded that once the barrier was up, they were on their own.

Oh, hey, we've got some objective physical might too.

The half-sealed Kyuubi was freed of the chains, stabbed through Kushina and Minato, and Kushina caught it's claw.

That's not even a chakra thing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, by that logic, you'd want to be Sasuke because, apparently, he can get access to just about any women.

I thought we were discussing which character's brother we would want to be?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, see, I think that your reasoning doesn't refute anything I've stated. The fact the Kushina is inside, I think, strengthens my point.

She was dedicated enough to die and attempt to get the Biju sealed...you know...that whole "ninja way" thing?

You think wrong. uhuh

Indeed, she wanted to drag the Kyuubi back into her and die, but she did not want Minato and Naruto to die with her, which would certainly have happened had the Barrier been able to stand up to Menacing Balls AND the Kyuubi had been able to use Menacing Balls.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Because it would be futile to use one, of course. Keep in mind that a menacing ball was taken care of, already, by Minato. There's also the fact that he could kill himself in the blast...but would revive several years later, like it was stated (if he dies, he'll come back eventually.) He was kind of not too keen on death.

The fact that the barrier exists, period, is evidence enough of Kushina wanting to contain the Kyuubi so no matter what the interpretation, the barrier has to...contain the Kyuubi. Physical attacks or energy attacks must be able to stand up to it else the barrier is futile and useless.

You're right, it would have been futile to use the Menacing Ball, but only because the Kyuubi could barely move (thanks to the chains), let alone try to charge a blast, and aim it at its captors. It had an ample amount of time to try and attempt a physical attack at the barrier or its captors, but it never did, at least not until Kushina started coughing.

Not if the barrier was used in conjunction with a technique, the result of which was the Kyuubi being restrained to immobility, which was the case as we can clearly see.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is quite easy to explain: the lives of the thousands of Konoha people were obviously greater than their three lives. They were also fairly confident that they could reseal the Kyuubi into their son but obviously, Kushina took proper precautions.

If you think that Kushina and Minato were so selfish as to only think of just their son and not anyone else, then I think you have misjudged their characters, entirely. Minato is the 4th Hokage and had a very strong sense of duty to his people. He's referenced, many times over, as having saved the village from the Kyuubi.

Sealing the Kyuubi into their son came up long after the Kyuubi had already been restrained. Kushina managed to restrain the Kyuubi with her Chains & Barrier techs, and it was after that that they started discussing their options.

Nah, Minato wasn't that selfish, but it's clear he was thinking about the villagers, the rest of the world, and his son.
Also, what you stated does not change the fact that if they sealed themselves up in a barrier which could contain an explosion, they would die, which in turn would leave the Kyuubi free, assuming it survived the explosion, which based on 6 Tailed Kyuubi, and the Hachibi, it should. To be honest, it likely got caught in the explosion of the second menacing ball it was about to use (the one it was about to use when Minato summoned Gamabunta, and then ported himself and the Kyuubi to his house), and survived.
That would pretty much make their efforts in vain, and again, retarded; trying to save everyone by sealing themselves up in a suicide attempt.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thought of that, already: the barrier is just like any other barrier in Naruto: it protects under the ground as well.

Just like the sound four's barrier.

It would be rather retarded if it didn't, would it not?

Why didn't Sarutobi just get under it? He was obviously desperate to help Minato? Surely a genius of Sarutobi's caliber would know he could just burrow under it, right?

What was the point of the barrier if the kyuubi could just dig himself out very quickly?

Yeah, I agree, it was a weak enough idea anyway. The chains come up from the ground as well.
______

Actually, come to think of it, I think the chains and the barrier combined were what restricted the Kyuubi to the point that it could could hardly move. When Kushina used the chains on the Kyuubi in Naruto's mind, it had an easier time moving about. Kushina was near-death 16 years ago, and Minato sealed the last of her chakra in Naruto, so there was roughly the same amount of chakra at work.

This still doesn't mean that the Barrier itself can stand up to Menacing Balls, seeing as the Chains likely prevent it from using them (either via some special property, or simply tripping the Kyuubi)

The barrier's shown to be strong, but not *that* strong.

Dear god. Those tutu's..... why Kishi, why?

The Lee chapter was ****ing hilarious though.

Iruka used a jutsu! 😮

And it did Jack and Shit!

**** Iruka. Just **** him and his inability to do anything.

Don't be so harsh! He's a teacher, not a front-line nin.

But yea, it did about as much as I'd expected 🙂 Presumably it could trap weaker ninja pretty well.

I don't care, it still did so little that it doesn't even deserve much notice. Naruto broke out of it in like a second.

Though yes, I am being unfair. I just want him to do something(any technique) and it actually have an effect.

Though that's odd, a seal user. Would not expect that from him.

It does make sense. He could trap unruly students in barriers, and it's a good area for brainy ninja.

At least we got to see Sage Mode having some practical use.

agreed. haven't seen it used for anything else other than beating the crap out of people (which has really only been the Pain bodies for the most part). and Iruka finally did a jutsu! sure it didn't do anything, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he knew there was no point in stopping Naruto so he didn't make it as strong as it should have been (which still wouldn't have stopped Naruto). glad to know a bit that Naruto and Iruka still share a good bond. haven't exactly seen them talk for quite awhile.

It seems Sage Mode is 'sensor mode' for him now, that's the primary thing he uses it for.

It also doesn't take him very long to go into it- presumably with a very short sage-charge, not enough for rasenshurikens and all that I'm guessing, but he didn't need to stand long to get enough power for a bull-rush.