Originally posted by yungz22
I think gai should also count as kage level because of the gates also that he and kakashi have always been on equal terms
I feel Kamui, especially once Kakashi gets it accurate and quicker, breaks their traditional stalemate, and at the least makes him good against some things Gai'd have more trouble with.
Originally posted by Q99
I feel Kamui, especially once Kakashi gets it accurate and quicker, breaks their traditional stalemate, and at the least makes him good against some things Gai'd have more trouble with.
I agree. I always thought that since Kakashi really didn't take Gai's contests seriously, it didn't really count.
Gai IS faster and IS better at Taijutsu...it's just that Kakashi is better at everything else including inventing new jutsus.
As far as Taijutsu goes, Gai very well may be the best there is in Naruto. A's taijutsu isn't really pure taijutsu. It's a combination of ninjutsu and taijutsu. There's also no telling how fast Gai gets while in gates mode.
Originally posted by yungz22
I think gai should also count as kage level because of the gates also that he and kakashi have always been on equal terms
Originally posted by Q99
I feel Kamui, especially once Kakashi gets it accurate and quicker, breaks their traditional stalemate, and at the least makes him good against some things Gai'd have more trouble with.
You conversation about Kakashi and Gai has made me rethink a question that I've always wondered. Exactly what makes their Hokage(Tsunade) S-class.
I know she pretty much has S+ chakra with the whole seal thing and tanked a full-powered Shinra Tenshi, but really what make her stand out overall?
Mainly? She can heal an *entire village at once*. That's crazy. S-class support.
Tsunade's nerve-scrambling is a one-hit kill against pretty much any non-Kabuto nin, her punches similar. She has regen that will keep going until her chakra runs out- meaning she could end up just wearing down the enemy, S- combat skills + most attacks won't do much is a major combat threat.
Also, let's consider- she has all chakra in her forehead thing. What if she applies that to an offensive jutsu? It's not like it *has* to be used for healing.
But all of that aside, mainly the support stuff. She has more healing capacity than every other medic nin in the series combined by a couple orders of magnitude. Sakura, Shizune, and Karin heal a few individuals? She heals *thousands*. Mid-fight!
Yes, her fighting shown isn't as high, but support stuff you can do on the fly counts too.
Which the logic used to have Tsunade in S could also be applied to Sakura as well, she just lacks the forehead seal. So meh.
Sakura's not as strong, doesn't have Katsuyu, doesn't have the nerve-scrambling touch move, or regen, or as good taijutsu, or etc..
But giving her the forehead seal and it would definitely be a major level up.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree. I always thought that since Kakashi really didn't take Gai's contests seriously, it didn't really count.Gai IS faster and IS better at Taijutsu...it's just that Kakashi is better at everything else including inventing new jutsus.
As far as Taijutsu goes, Gai very well may be the best there is in Naruto. A's taijutsu isn't really pure taijutsu. It's a combination of ninjutsu and taijutsu. There's also no telling how fast Gai gets while in gates mode.
Personally I figure Gai's advantage is much like Mifune's- he's so fast it prevents many other advantages from being brought to bear.
Originally posted by Q99
Mainly? She can heal an *entire village at once*. That's crazy. S-class support.Tsunade's nerve-scrambling is a one-hit kill against pretty much any non-Kabuto nin, her punches similar. She has regen that will keep going until her chakra runs out- meaning she could end up just wearing down the enemy, S- combat skills + most attacks won't do much is a major combat threat.
Also, let's consider- she has all chakra in her forehead thing. What if she applies that to an offensive jutsu? It's not like it *has* to be used for healing.
But all of that aside, mainly the support stuff. She has more healing capacity than every other medic nin in the series combined by a couple orders of magnitude. Sakura, Shizune, and Karin heal a few individuals? She heals *thousands*. Mid-fight!
Yes, her fighting shown isn't as high, but support stuff you can do on the fly counts too.
To be honest that the best feat she's shown......since she was introduced😐
The problem with Tsunade's techniques is that their all short ranged with no extra element like other Taijutsu users that make it stand out as a challenge to other S-class nin we've seen: Gai's gates, Mifune's speed, A's Raiton armor.
She does have Katsuyu and has perhaps the most impressive chakra reserve out of the five kages, but it doesn't do much when you're dealing with ultra hax ninjutsu. As far as Genesis Rebirth goes, exactly how potent is it? It healed an impalement easily but if it could do limb/organ regeneration then I'll eat my words about dissing her.
Where it stands for Tsunade...S+ chakra + A+ fighting ability= S- IMHO
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
To be honest that the best feat she's shown......since she was introduced😐
Yea, she hasn't gotten to fight much since then.
The problem with Tsunade's techniques is that their all short ranged with no extra element like other Taijutsu users that make it stand out as a challenge to other S-class nin we've seen: Gai's gates, Mifune's speed, A's Raiton armor.
*Nods* Her combat techniques. The only range she's really show is, well, throw/lift super-heavy stuff and attack with that. She needs something like Gamabunta's sword full-time...
It's really the medicine that gets her the rank.
She does have Katsuyu and has perhaps the most impressive chakra reserve out of the five kages, but it doesn't do much when you're dealing with ultra hax ninjutsu. As far as Genesis Rebirth goes, exactly how potent is it? It healed an impalement easily but if it could do limb/organ regeneration then I'll eat my words about dissing her.
Impaled through the heart with a magic sword. Probably could handle stuff like chidori pretty well too.
Where it stands for Tsunade...S+ chakra + A+ fighting ability= S- IMHO
If it were just the fighting that went into her rating, yes. She's an S- class combatant, I'm in total agreement.
But she's also the ultimate healbot.
Consider, say, 4 S-class nins vs 4 S-class nins. One of those four is Tsunade. She's a bit less good in a fight, so after a few minutes, all three of her comrades are wounded while only two of the opponents are. Then bam, she uses her jutsu, none of her comrades are wounded. Her team wins.
And it works even better the larger force you're talking about. 100 vs 100, her squad inflicts 30 wounded and takes 40, she healbots them all, let's say 10 were already dead, but her force now has 20 more active ninja, and wins.
Healing counts too. It doesn't require prep, at her level it can protect even against major stuff in mass number.
Tsunade's the army-support Kage. She's the weakest in a solo fight out of the 5, but she's one of the strongest in a group fight.
Originally posted by Q99
Impaled through the heart with a magic sword. Probably could handle stuff like chidori pretty well too.If it were just the fighting that went into her rating, yes. She's an S- class combatant, I'm in total agreement.
But she's also the ultimate healbot.
Consider, say, 4 S-class nins vs 4 S-class nins. One of those four is Tsunade. She's a bit less good in a fight, so after a few minutes, all three of her comrades are wounded while only two of the opponents are. Then bam, she uses her jutsu, none of her comrades are wounded. Her team wins.
And it works even better the larger force you're talking about. 100 vs 100, her squad inflicts 30 wounded and takes 40, she healbots them all, let's say 10 were already dead, but her force now has 20 more active ninja, and wins.
Healing counts too. It doesn't require prep, at her level it can protect even against major stuff in mass number.
Tsunade's the army-support Kage. She's the weakest in a solo fight out of the 5, but she's one of the strongest in a group fight.
True Tsunade did get stabbed in the heart, but wouldn't stuff like that fall under standard regen or slightly above average.
She is the ultimate support ninja but I'm still uneasy about having her is flat out S class. The fact that nearly every one in Akatsuki except Hidan and maybe Sasori could potentially beat Tsunade isn't really an assuring fact 🙁
Healing is her best asset especially when she's the best medic nin possibly in the Narutoverse. It would still help if she had some ninjutsu though.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
She is the ultimate support ninja but I'm still uneasy about having her is flat out S class. The fact that nearly every one in Akatsuki except Hidan and maybe Sasori could potentially beat Tsunade isn't really an assuring fact 🙁
The fact that it's army-level healing makes it count as much as other army-level abilities for the sake of rating.
Hm, Hidan vs Tsunade'd be fun 🙂 He could do the curse and stab her in the heart and she'd keep coming, and that nerve-tap move would screw him over...
Healing is her best asset especially when she's the best medic nin possibly in the Narutoverse. It would still help if she had some ninjutsu though.
Agreed. I'd be a bit surprised if she didn't; each of the Sannin have a lot of abilities and always seem to pull out a new one every time they fight.
Spoiler:
naruto and bee are joining the fight bytches! they get stopped by the barrier squad but they only prepared for naruto, with bee along with him they start busting through the seals.we see more of the kages dispose of zetsus and black zetsu makes an appearance, also gedo mazo and madara appear in the manga.
It looks like Kakuzu was crushed by a large rock, probably thanks to Choji. We already knew he was losing masks.
Dan's in a four-barrier jutsu that they talked about earlier.
Seems like Black Zetsu's going to be doing hit-and-run stuff.
Hm, and Mizukage intercepted him with taijutsu. That kinda surprised me.