The Official Naruto series Thread

Started by dadudemon1,600 pages

To Q99:

No, what it means is gold will make it easier to beat down. So what I said.

It's hilarious that you said Danzo is slow when he's on par with Sasuke. Good one.

No, it's slower that what we've seen from Gaara. His sand only worked at that distance because it was heavier. Additionally, Gaara stopped the Sasuke fight with Raikage at super fast speeds.

Water is not a conductor. Water with salts dissolved in it makes it conductive. So I win this round.

And, no, the quoting is not going to make sense.

You're giving Yondaime Kazekage too much credit. You're over powering him.

This week's chapter will prove that.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Because it is heavier.

Does not make it better. Makes it a counter to Sand.

That, and the fact that Yondy moves it much like Sand is manipulated, makes it better than Sand.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Probably because him being able to use Iron Sand doesn't make sense in context. The 3rd was the strongest Kazekage by far apparently yet the 4th would be able to use his technique?

Ah, but Iron Sand with poison and being controlled by a puppet is>Iron Sand manipulated otherwise.

And? Sasuke can use Genjutsu & Tsukuyomi with the Sharingan. Is he as strong as Itachi was in that department? In addition, Iron Sand is what the 3rd Kazekage was feared & known for, but I'd bet that that isn't all he could use.
Now unless Iron Sand needs some other factor to control that we do not know of, there's no reason 4th couldn't use IS.

It's still controlled by a puppet, even if it is poison laced. I'd wager that the Third as a human >>> his puppet form.
Besides, Sasori is still S rank according to Q99's tier (at least Sasori when he fought against Sakura & Chiyo). 3rd would be S as well I think.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Nah. Sasori broke in, killed him after a fight, and then kidnapped him. Probably. vin

Actually, it's quite possible. Granted, we haven't seen the 3rd in actual action but going by wank the Kazekage scale would be 3rd> Gaara> 4th.

Please. Had Sasori broken in, he'd have been driven back by Kazekage and his associates. He probably attacked Kazekage while everyone was sleeping. 😛 It's the kind of thing a lonely gai like he, would do.

Nah. It's in the numbers. 3rd > 4th > 5th. 313
Or if you want, 5th > 4th > 3rd. vin

Gold as a defense to electricity seems plausible to me. an "umbrella" connected to the ground should form a good defense against kirin.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Gold as a defense to electricity seems plausible to me. an "umbrella" connected to the ground should form a good defense against kirin.

Wouldn't the ground just explode once the Lightning reached there?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v43/c391/9.html

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wouldn't the ground just explode once the Lightning reached there?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v43/c391/9.html

Hmmm.....Luffy survived large scale lightning attacks and was just fine even though natural lightning would fry mostly everything it hits.

Maybe using an example from another series was a bad idea for me🙁

EDIT

a really, really long bridge!

Originally posted by dadudemon
To Q99:

No, what it means is gold will make it easier to beat down. So what I said.

Conductivity doesn't work that way.

It means that the material itself will take less of the energy, instead passing it around.

A resistant material takes damage from electricity and catches fire while a conductive cable can pass the same amount through without issue.


It's hilarious that you said Danzo is slow when he's on par with Sasuke. Good one.

Not really. He met him in melee, but hasn't shown nearly the speed Sasuke has, and Hidan (speed 3.5) can match Kakashi (speed 4.5) in melee too, so it doesn't require equal speed to do what Danzo did.

Danzo isn't as fast as Sasuke, nor do we have sign that Sasuke speed would be sufficient for a blitz.


No, it's slower that what we've seen from Gaara. His sand only worked at that distance because it was heavier. Additionally, Gaara stopped the Sasuke fight with Raikage at super fast speeds.

When they launched attacks at each other, the sand and gold met exactly half way between them when propelled at the same time. Meaning during those attacks, they were at equal speed.

Who's heavier affected things once the two mixed, but we've seen no clear speed advantage between them so far.


Water is not a conductor. Water with salts dissolved in it makes it conductive. So I win this round.

Most water jutsu come from people spitting it out, so that'd qualify 🙂

-

Conductivity is an aid against electricity as long as you're not touching the conductive substance.


You're giving Yondaime Kazekage too much credit. You're over powering him.

No, I don't think so, I'm just examining why he's losing and it's been neither speed nor power, it's been trickiness with a similarly powered, similar speed power set.

And that he subdued a Biju definitely doesn't hurt.

Originally posted by Q99
Conductivity doesn't work that way.

It means that the material itself will take less of the energy, instead passing it around.

A resistant material takes damage from electricity and catches fire while a conductive cable can pass the same amount through without issue.

It does in my version since it's pure speculation on both our parts.

Just the same as Sasuke using electricity to disable the microscopic clay bombs, the same with it intefering with Yondaime Kazekage's ability to use magnetism to manipulate the gold.

In fact, it makes more sense that electricity would do better at disrupting than it does at disabling earth based bombs.

Originally posted by Q99
Not really. He met him in melee, but hasn't shown nearly the speed Sasuke has, and Hidan (speed 3.5) can match Kakashi (speed 4.5) in melee too, so it doesn't require equal speed to do what Danzo did.

Danzo isn't as fast as Sasuke, nor do we have sign that Sasuke speed would be sufficient for a blitz.

Danzo is as fast or almost as fast as Sasuke based on feats. This is not up for debate, actually. I'm not sure why it would ever be up for debate as it is fairly set in stone.

Originally posted by Q99
When they launched attacks at each other, the sand and gold met exactly half way between them when propelled at the same time. Meaning during those attacks, they were at equal speed.

Who's heavier affected things once the two mixed, but we've seen no clear speed advantage between them so far.

They did not meet halfway, not even close.

Maybe a 10th of the way.

Check the manga again. Gaara started at really far out. A conversation took place between the zombies, and near the last moment, he used his gold to destroy Gaara's Sand's inertia.

Originally posted by Q99
Most water jutsu come from people spitting it out, so that'd qualify 🙂

bastard! weep

-

Originally posted by Q99
Conductivity is an aid against electricity as long as you're not touching the conductive substance.

I was thinking more about it disrupting his ability to manip combined with speed. Also, since it's so fine, it will arch all over the place and make him shake like Michael J Fox. (The really fine dust particles, just the same as with sand, will create many different paths.)

Originally posted by Q99
No, I don't think so, I'm just examining why he's losing and it's been neither speed nor power, it's been trickiness with a similarly powered, similar speed power set.

And that he subdued a Biju definitely doesn't hurt.

I don't see it that way.

I see Gaara being faster with his sand that his father and being able to grab him before he can react. If his father reacted in time, he could have easily knocked off the sand with his heavier gold sand.

And that Bijuu was "defeated" by a genin and one giant summon.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Gold as a defense to electricity seems plausible to me. an "umbrella" connected to the ground should form a good defense against kirin.

There's also the problem of the gold creating gold dust..or finer particles of gold that float in the air. So it would arch all over the place with the majority getting conducted in the umbrella.

Sasuke is also more than fast enough to navigate around and make direct hits on the Yondaime Kazekage because he doesn't have that auto-shield that Gaara does.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Danzo is as fast or almost as fast as Sasuke based on feats. This is not up for debate, actually. I'm not sure why it would ever be up for debate as it is fairly set in stone.

Combat speed, sure. Just like Sasuke is roughly as fast as A in terms of combat speed, Kisame is with Bee, Deva is with Sage Mode Naruto, and so on.

Blitz movement type speed, nah.

Originally posted by dadudemon
They did not meet halfway, not even close.

Maybe a 10th of the way.

Check the manga again. Gaara started at really far out. A conversation took place between the zombies, and near the last moment, he used his gold to destroy Gaara's Sand's inertia.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/75426197/10
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/75426197/11

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Combat speed, sure. Just like Sasuke is roughly as fast as A in terms of combat speed, Kisame is with Bee, Deva is with Sage Mode Naruto, and so on.

Blitz movement type speed, nah.

I agree.

We see massive differences in things like Itachi's hand sign speed or Kakashi against the kids. That combat speed is much faster.

Another example is Raikage's combat speed. Most people cannot even handle it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/75426197/10
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/75426197/11

You've just proven my point with those scans.

Gaara's had to be moving faster because his would need a greater inertia in order for them to cancel each others out.

Additionally, this is what I was referring to:

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/46677395/9
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/46677395/10
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/46677395/11

And, again, his gold had to be traveling slower in order for it to be canceling out Gaara's sand because Gaara's sand, per unit volume, has less mass.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It does in my version since it's pure speculation on both our parts.

The properties of gold aren't speculation.

And anyway, for ratings we definitely don't assume unshown weaknesses, so even if you think it's the case, rate as if it's not.


Just the same as Sasuke using electricity to disable the microscopic clay bombs, the same with it intefering with Yondaime Kazekage's ability to use magnetism to manipulate the gold.

Clay bombs were earth jutsu with known vulnerability. Magnet element is something else entirely with no known chakra or RL vulnerability.


In fact, it makes more sense that electricity would do better at disrupting than it does at disabling earth based bombs.

Electricity doesn't disrupt magnetism.


Danzo is as fast or almost as fast as Sasuke based on feats. This is not up for debate, actually. I'm not sure why it would ever be up for debate as it is fairly set in stone.

When? What speed-thing did he do? He clashes swords, but that doesn't require equal speed.


They did not meet halfway, not even close.

Maybe a 10th of the way.

Check the manga again. Gaara started at really far out. A conversation took place between the zombies, and near the last moment, he used his gold to destroy Gaara's Sand's inertia.

Looks half way to me, or closer to Gaara if anything.

The initial tsunami, was not propelled at the same time, Gaara's was en route well before Gaaradad's, so I was talking about this incident.

Also note that when Gaara did attacks aimed at the other two Kage, Gaaradadwas able to block for both of them too, even them being some distance from him.


I was thinking more about it disrupting his ability to manip combined with speed. Also, since it's so fine, it will arch all over the place and make him shake like Michael J Fox. (The really fine dust particles, just the same as with sand, will create many different paths.)

If he has the gold at some distance like him, like he's been showing doing, then it still won't touch him.

And there's no evidence of disrupting the ability.


I don't see it that way.

I see Gaara being faster with his sand that his father and being able to grab him before he can react. If his father reacted in time, he could have easily knocked off the sand with his heavier gold sand.

Gaara never got him with fast attacks though. The grabs were entirely with Sand that was already right next to him, less than a foot away. The big grab was when Gaaradad was blocking sand hail as well.

Also, he got Raikage and Mizukage the exact same way. Are they both slow too?


And that Bijuu was "defeated" by a genin and one giant summon.

Note they only woke up Gaara, making it go asleep again. They didn't subdue it's hostless form, they just made it so they didn't have to fight Shukaku.

Even granting the possibility that Sasuke'd win, Sasuke's around the top of the S- already (hence the Orochimaru powers putting him over the top) and has the strongest attack of the lot (Kirin). 4th Kaze is still a good deal above most of the S-.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree.

We see massive differences in things like Itachi's hand sign speed or Kakashi against the kids. That combat speed is much faster.

Another example is Raikage's combat speed. Most people cannot even handle it.

High Jonin levels like Suigetsu and Juugo can handle his combat speed just fine apparently, though they are on the defensive. When he goes for a straight line pure blitz at his top speed with Shunshin, that would likely be a different case with respect to Suigetsu and Juugo.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You've just proven my point with those scans.

Gaara's had to be moving faster because his would need a greater inertia in order for them to cancel each others out.

Additionally, this is what I was referring to:

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/46677395/9
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/46677395/10
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/46677395/11

And, again, his gold had to be traveling slower in order for it to be canceling out Gaara's sand because Gaara's sand, per unit volume, has less mass.

You are over-examining and over-looking things. In that instance, Gaara sent his sand out at the same time, (if not just before), that Yondy sent his Gold out. The fact that the Sand & Gold met at the half-way point of the distance between Gaara and Yondy, means that they were moving at about the same speed prior to the clash.

I already knew what you were referring to when you said 'not even 1/10th of the way'. His gold does not stop the movement of Gaara's sand by acting as a wall. It stops it by acting as an 'impurity' in the Sand.

In addition, collisions in Naruto-verse do not have to follow our laws of physics. Sage Mode Naruto, who is 51 kilos, completely stopped an ~100 ton Rhino that was charging at him, whilst stationary. He barely moved after they collided.
By our laws, he should have been skewered on the horn while the Rhino kept charging, or sent flying across Konoha like a hopeless idiot, while the Rhino kept charging.

Originally posted by Q99
Even granting the possibility that Sasuke'd win, Sasuke's around the top of the S- already (hence the Orochimaru powers putting him over the top) and has the strongest attack of the lot (Kirin). 4th Kaze is still a good deal above most of the S-.

Sasuke with Orochimaru absorbed would win IMO. Pre-Orochimaru absorption Sasuke would be in for a hell of a fight though, and I still think that Yondy Kaze could not stop Kirin by just conducting it to the ground.

Also, Kitsuchi is an S- that could beat Yondy Kaze, though I think that's only because of that Mountain Sandwich tech of his. Mighty Gai would also win if he used the Gates.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke with Orochimaru absorbed would win IMO. Pre-Orochimaru absorption Sasuke would be in for a hell of a fight though, and I still think that Yondy Kaze could not stop Kirin by just conducting it to the ground.

I agree it'd definitely significantly improve his odds, as it gives him the luxury of taking damage, has all the snake jutsu attacks, has Manda, etc.. More versatility.


Also, Kitsuchi is an S- that could beat Yondy Kaze, though I think that's only because of that Mountain Sandwich tech of his. Mighty Gai would also win if he used the Gates.

Couldn't 4th Kaze just use gold to fly himself above the sandwich, much like how Gaara flies around? Also stopping a gold wave seems like it'd be hard since it could just flow around an earth barrier. So while it'd be a good fight, my money would be on Yondy.

Gai could win with his max gates, but let's compare overall utility. 4th Kaze can throw multiple gold tsunamis, and unlike Gai his high-end powers can be used defensively too, to shield others. He's more multi-faceted.

The S- ones who stand the best chance of winning, the ones we're discussing right now, are the ones who are most focused on styles that are most focused on killing one on one or having a single all-or-nothing attack, I note. Yondy, on the flip side, is a high utility fighter who's optimized for group battle, in addition to being really dangerous in one on one battle. The S- with more versatility and utility, don't seem like they'd do so well.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/73913037/1

Misleading title.

Spoiler:
So Gaara beat his Daddy. Mizukage turns out to be a genjutsu user and has a summon...

A GIANT CLAM!

He is officially win. Oh and Raikage is just like his freaking kid.

Oh and Temari is one stupid shit.

Naruto and Bee vs Itachi and Nagato. Should be fun.

Edit: Also, it appears that for a genjutsu user, the 2nd Mizukage might be packing a nice taijutsu punch. He charges into the soldiers and it seems like he took them out with the good old fisticuffs. Didn't take out as may as the Raikage but considering the latter is most definitely a taijutsu guy, it makes sense.

Spoiler:
Interesting! The first Genjutsu kage. That would explain how he could take on Muu- he doesn't need to match him power for power. We can also finally see what high-level non-sharingan genjutsu looks like.

Aura- He is a Kage after all. You'd expect them to be reasonably good even outside their specialities.

Originally posted by Q99
Spoiler:
Interesting! The first Genjutsu kage. That would explain how he could take on Muu- he doesn't need to match him power for power. We can also finally see what high-level non-sharingan genjutsu looks like.

Aura- He is a Kage after all. You'd expect them to be reasonably good even outside their specialities.

Spoiler:
I thought the same thing. And we have seen Toad Song, which was pretty high level.

Was mostly meaning genjutsu users in general. They don't seem quite the taijutsu types. And Idk, certain Kage or Kage candidates aren't notably strong in some areas.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Spoiler:
I thought the same thing. And we have seen Toad Song, which was pretty high level.

Was mostly meaning genjutsu users in general. They don't seem quite the taijutsu types. And Idk, certain Kage or Kage candidates aren't notably strong in some areas.

Spoiler:
Ah yea, forgot about toad song.

True, but the majority tend to be good in more than one area. To reach Kage, I'd expect a genjutsu user especially would have to branch out.