Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So he says. vinNo, Sasuke hated him. 313
She would too. 😮
I thought it a rather nice tearjerker myself.
So he knows.
Not anymore 131
Konan has a bone? innuendur
more liek fanfic.
Originally posted by Q99
I think it's not a drastic enough example to warrant an asterisk. Especially since it's depending on what an opponent does rather than what he does.There's plenty of other cases where someone'd match up well against one type of foe and not another (consider how using genjutsu on Itachi not only doesn't work, but lets him apply it on the user, making someone like Kurenai or 2nd Mizukage far more screwed than someone else of their levels). Samehada's something of a bigger example than normal, but he does absorb some chakra from most foes' jutsu, it's just some give him more to work with.
Even a biju user could avoid using their biju jutsu and keep him down if they wanted- in a hypothetical rematch, Bee could decide to go swords-only and fight from there (in which case Kisame'd never leave S level), rather than overwhelming him as he initially tried.
Sorry, meant a reference, not the asterisk used for Konan, Kabuto & Orochimaru.
Well, as you said, Samehada's more of a drastic case than this wide brand of rock-paper-scissors that we have in Naruto.
Problem is that it's hard to match him without using a Bijuu's power. Bee also went for swords-only in the beginning, but couldn't put him down. In addition, Kisame could very well go for the Lake jutsu+ Samehada Merge combo from the get-go, instead of prancing around like he did against Bee.
But I digress, the point is that depending on the opponent, Kisame w/ Samehada fluctuates.
Originally posted by Q99
I'd like to know at least one foe Yagura fought before rating, personally. At least with Yugito we saw the aftermath of a fight with no foes.
Fair enough. Your call.
Originally posted by Q99
Btw, Nagato- I think by next chapter we're going to get enough info to tell whether his powers all in one-body are weaker than him with the paths (S+), or whether he's still in the same general league (SS-), just with a bit more vulnerability in having his body present (though with the note that combining Preta and Deva's powers in the same body is truly uber defense).
Indeed, but he seems to only be able to use/activate one of the paths' abilities at a time, whereas with the Paths of Pain, he could use them at the same time as they were all different bodies. That's the only major thing I can think of, aside from the lack of shared vision. I can't see him using the Asura's ability though. But on the flip-side, he can also use elemental ninjutsu.
Now that he's absorbed some of Bee's Hachibi chakra, I'm guessing that he'll likely have more chakra & stamina at his disposal, though he already had a very high amount when he was using the Paths.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
So he knows.Not anymore 131
Konan has a bone? innuendur
more liek fanfic.
So he says. Pretty sure he could get Bee to stop if he wanted to.
Is there a reason he couldn't have a pet? 😮
Several. Her anatomy is similar enough to ours.
I know, it's supposed to be. But it's still sad.
Well, as you said, Samehada's more of a drastic case than this wide brand of rock-paper-scissors that we have in Naruto.
It's bigger, but it's not so big that I think it requires a special case.
After all, Suigetsu and Konan are just about immune to taijutsu, Itachi and Sasuke genjutsu. Those're entire branches of ninja arts.
Problem is that it's hard to match him without using a Bijuu's power. Bee also went for swords-only in the beginning, but couldn't put him down. In addition, Kisame could very well go for the Lake jutsu+ Samehada Merge combo from the get-go, instead of prancing around like he did against Bee.
Keep in mind he only did that after he had absorbed a lot of chakra. He might be able to do it from the get go, but he probably wouldn't be able to hold it long if he doesn't drain more, so it'd be higher risk.
It's a great power but it also requires actively doing something to the opponent.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So he says. Pretty sure he could get Bee to stop if he wanted to.Is there a reason he couldn't have a pet? 😮
Several. Her anatomy is similar enough to ours.
I know, it's supposed to be. But it's still sad.
Not when rapping is second nature to Bee. Stopping Bee from rapping would be like getting Sasuke to show interest in girls. 😛
There is.
He's an Uchiha, and Uchiha only keep Bijuu and Giant animals as pets.
Spoilsport.
To you maybe. His actual story is much better and sadder. uhuh
Originally posted by Q99
It's bigger, but it's not so big that I think it requires a special case.After all, Suigetsu and Konan are just about immune to taijutsu, Itachi and Sasuke genjutsu. Those're entire branches of ninja arts.
Keep in mind he only did that after he had absorbed a lot of chakra. He might be able to do it from the get go, but he probably wouldn't be able to hold it long if he doesn't drain more, so it'd be higher risk.
It's a great power but it also requires actively doing something to the opponent.
Some might be immune to taijutsu & genjutsu, but they just nullify one of their opponent's assets, potentially their best one. Conversely, Samehada also nullifies one of his opponent's assets, potentially their best one, whilst increasing his strength.
And used up some of it to repair a torn torso.
At just 30% of his regular chakra levels, he could create an equivalent sized lake, but without the dome shape; so it's not a question of chakra to Kisame.
He's faster underwater, can sense their chakra, and just a touch will drain their chakra.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not when rapping is second nature to Bee. Stopping Bee from rapping would be like getting Sasuke to show interest in girls. 😛There is.
He's an Uchiha, and Uchiha only keep Bijuu and Giant animals as pets.Spoilsport.
To you maybe. His actual story is much better and sadder. uhuh
He did though. He pierced Karin what good. Left her speechless, sweaty, and bloody. Remember? 😛
lol what about the Uchiha cats, which are surprisingly absent.
Yes.
Indeed. Now add a pet he has to get rid of and it's even more sad. I wish he didn't get brought back to life personally. 😮
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He did though. He pierced Karin what good. Left her speechless, sweaty, and bloody. Remember? 😛lol what about the Uchiha cats, which are surprisingly absent.
Yes.
Indeed. Now add a pet he has to get rid of and it's even more sad. I wish he didn't get brought back to life personally. 😮
Haha. But he makes her orgasm when he bites her for her ability. Piercing her don't count. 😛
They aren't pets though. More like gangster partners.
Nah, just makes his story seem weird.
I'm torn actually. At first, I thought that Naruto would have to defeat him, which I didn't want. 😛 But still, more Itachi. I wish we saw more of his interactions with Nagato.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Haha. But he makes her orgasm when he bites her for her ability. Piercing her don't count. 😛They aren't pets though. More like gangster partners.
Nah, just makes his story seem weird.
I'm torn actually. At first, I thought that Naruto would have to defeat him, which I didn't want. 😛 But still, more Itachi. I wish we saw more of his interactions with Nagato.
Does too. 😛
The cats? Nah, they're pets. 😛
Indeed, but whatever.
He did...sorta. And yeah, I ca see why you'd want more of Itachi. And yes, that would be cool. I'd like to see Itachi vs Nagato personally.
Stats:
SS-
Nagato (Pain)
S+
Itachi Uchiha
Killerbee
Madara Uchiha (Sharingan only)
Minato Namikaze
Mito Uzumaki
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
S
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Gaara (Kage)
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Jiraiya
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Konan*
Kushina Uzumaki
Mei Terumi
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)
Orochimaru*
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo)
Tsunade
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito Nii
S-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Ginkaku
Hidan
Kabuto* (Orochimaru merge)
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Mifune
Might Gai (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shisui Uchiha
*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.
A+
Asuma Sarutobi
Hiashi Hyuuga
Kabuto Yakushi
Kakashi Hatake (part 1)
Kimimaro Kaguya (sick)
Might Gai (part 1)
Yamato
Zabuza Momochi
A
Ao
Baki
C
Fū (ANBU)
Hizashi Hyuuga
Jūgo
Kankurō (with Sasori puppet)
Killer Bee (Young, Minato fight)
Kurenai Yuhi
Kurotsuchi
Naruto Uzumaki (post elemental training)
Neji Hyuuga (part 2)
Sasori (Sans puppet arsenal)
Shikaku Nara
Suigetsu Hōzuki
Torune
A-
Chōjūrō
Chōji Akimichi (Asuma Fight)
Chōza Akimichi
Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Inoichi Yamanaka
Kakko (Kakashi Gaiden)
Naruto Uzumaki (start of part 2)
Sai (post-emotions)
Shibi Aburame
Shizune
Temari (start of part 2)
B+
Anko Mitarashi
Ibiki Morino
Kakashi Hatake (Kakashi Gaiden)
Kankurō (as of Sasori fight)
Naruto Uzumaki (One Tail)
Rock Lee (part 2)
Sai (start)
Sakura Haruno (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (VotE)
B
Gaara (Chuunin Exam)
Haku
Ino Yamanaka (4th Shinobi War)
Kankurō (Sasuke Retrieval)
Omoi
Sakon/Ukon
Shino Aburame (part 2)
Shikamaru Nara (part 2)
Taiseki (Kakashi Gaiden)
Temari (Sasuke Retrieval)
Tsume Inuzuka
B-
Aoba Yamashiro
Chōji Akimichi (start of part 2)
Hayate Gekkō
Hinata Hyuuga (part 2)
Jirōbō
Kiba Inazuka (part 2)
Kidōmaru
Neji Hyuuga (Sasuke Retrieval)
Shin
Tayuya
C+
Ebisu
Ino Yamanaka (start of part 2)
Karin
Naruto Uzumaki (Post Rasengan Training)
Neji Hyuga (Chunin exam)
Rock Lee (Chunin exam)
Sasuke Uchiha (Chunin exam finals)
Shikamaru Nara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Temari (Chunin exam)
White Zetsu Clone
C
Dosu
Iruka
Izumo Kamizuki
Kankuro (Chunin exam)
Konohamaru Sarutobi (part 2)
Kotetsu Hagane
Obito Uchiha (Sharingan)
Rin
Sasuke Uchiha (Sharingan)
Shikamaru Nara (Chunin exam)
Shino Aburame (Chunin exam)
Yashamaru
C-
Gōzu (Demon Brother)
Kiba Inazuka (Chunin exam)
Meizu (Demon Brother)
Mizuki
Naruto Uzumaki (Post clone jutsu)
Obito Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Sasuke Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Shigure
D+
Chōji Akimichi (Chunin exam)
Hinata Hyuga (part 1)
Ino Yamanaka (Chunin exam)
Kin
Oboro
Tenten (Chunin exam)
Zaku
D
Misumi Tsurugi
Sakura Haruno (Chunin exam)
Yoroi Akadō
D-
Rock Lee (Just graduated Genin)
Sakura Haruno (Start)
E+
Naruto Uzumaki (pre-clone jutsu)
E-
Konohamaru Sarutobi (start)
Rock Lee (Academy flashback)
---
Added Kyuubi-mode Naruto and Yashamaru
Originally posted by Q99Why the hell is Sasuke behind Killer Bee(Susanoo > Bijuu mode), hell why is Killer Bee above Madara and Minato. And version of Madara could solo Bee.
Stats:SS-
Nagato (Pain)S+
Itachi Uchiha
Killerbee
Madara Uchiha (Sharingan only)
Minato Namikaze
Mito Uzumaki
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
OnokiS
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Gaara (Kage)
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Jiraiya
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Konan*
Kushina Uzumaki
Mei Terumi
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)
Orochimaru*
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo)
Tsunade
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito NiiS-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Ginkaku
Hidan
Kabuto* (Orochimaru merge)
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Mifune
Might Gai (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shisui Uchiha*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.
A+
Asuma Sarutobi
Hiashi Hyuuga
Kabuto Yakushi
Kakashi Hatake (part 1)
Kimimaro Kaguya (sick)
Might Gai (part 1)
Yamato
Zabuza MomochiA
Ao
Baki
C
Fū (ANBU)
Hizashi Hyuuga
Jūgo
Kankurō (with Sasori puppet)
Killer Bee (Young, Minato fight)
Kurenai Yuhi
Kurotsuchi
Naruto Uzumaki (post elemental training)
Neji Hyuuga (part 2)
Sasori (Sans puppet arsenal)
Shikaku Nara
Suigetsu Hōzuki
ToruneA-
Chōjūrō
Chōji Akimichi (Asuma Fight)
Chōza Akimichi
Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Inoichi Yamanaka
Kakko (Kakashi Gaiden)
Naruto Uzumaki (start of part 2)
Sai (post-emotions)
Shibi Aburame
Shizune
Temari (start of part 2)B+
Anko Mitarashi
Ibiki Morino
Kakashi Hatake (Kakashi Gaiden)
Kankurō (as of Sasori fight)
Naruto Uzumaki (One Tail)
Rock Lee (part 2)
Sai (start)
Sakura Haruno (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (VotE)B
Gaara (Chuunin Exam)
Haku
Ino Yamanaka (4th Shinobi War)
Kankurō (Sasuke Retrieval)
Omoi
Sakon/Ukon
Shino Aburame (part 2)
Shikamaru Nara (part 2)
Taiseki (Kakashi Gaiden)
Temari (Sasuke Retrieval)
Tsume InuzukaB-
Aoba Yamashiro
Chōji Akimichi (start of part 2)
Hayate Gekkō
Hinata Hyuuga (part 2)
Jirōbō
Kiba Inazuka (part 2)
Kidōmaru
Neji Hyuuga (Sasuke Retrieval)
Shin
TayuyaC+
Ebisu
Ino Yamanaka (start of part 2)
Karin
Naruto Uzumaki (Post Rasengan Training)
Neji Hyuga (Chunin exam)
Rock Lee (Chunin exam)
Sasuke Uchiha (Chunin exam finals)
Shikamaru Nara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Temari (Chunin exam)
White Zetsu CloneC
Dosu
Iruka
Izumo Kamizuki
Kankuro (Chunin exam)
Konohamaru Sarutobi (part 2)
Kotetsu Hagane
Obito Uchiha (Sharingan)
Rin
Sasuke Uchiha (Sharingan)
Shikamaru Nara (Chunin exam)
Shino Aburame (Chunin exam)
YashamaruC-
Gōzu (Demon Brother)
Kiba Inazuka (Chunin exam)
Meizu (Demon Brother)
Mizuki
Naruto Uzumaki (Post clone jutsu)
Obito Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Sasuke Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
ShigureD+
Chōji Akimichi (Chunin exam)
Hinata Hyuga (part 1)
Ino Yamanaka (Chunin exam)
Kin
Oboro
Tenten (Chunin exam)
ZakuD
Misumi Tsurugi
Sakura Haruno (Chunin exam)
Yoroi AkadōD-
Rock Lee (Just graduated Genin)
Sakura Haruno (Start)E+
Naruto Uzumaki (pre-clone jutsu)E-
Konohamaru Sarutobi (start)
Rock Lee (Academy flashback)---
Added Kyuubi-mode Naruto and Yashamaru
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelI think you're overrating Bee to much. Bee fought a Sasuke that was weakened, un prepared and had no full mastery of his MS and basically was using it at 10% of it's true power.
Sasuke is behind Killer Bee because Sasuke was beaten by Bee and is thus weaker than him. Killer Bee is not above Madara or Minato but the list is in alphabetical order so his name naturally comes before theirs.And I actually think sharingan Madara would not fair well against Bee.
Now Sasuke surpassed Bee when he finished fighting Danzo and can one shot him with Ammy or Susanoo.
And yeah Madara beats bee with ease with any version. Space/Time Intagagble body and all that.
Biju mode can destroy an army or level a fortress. Blow through a multi-layer barrier jutsu, for example.
There's more to powers than their use in one-on-one combat. When comparing ratings, consider not just how they match up against each other, but their use in other situations. Biju are powerful strategic weapons, not simply duelists.
On Sasuke- sure, he was weakened and didn't have full mastery of MS. On the flip side, he had Jugo, Suigetsu, and Karin, not a small list of assets.
On Madara vs Killerbee... not so sure. If he transforms big, fully warping him would take quite some time, and Killerbee has *great* timing against high speed foes as shown with Minato. I think that'd be an awesome fight.
Originally posted by killermover
Why the hell is Sasuke behind Killer Bee(Susanoo > Bijuu mode), hell why is Killer Bee above Madara and Minato. And version of Madara could solo Bee.
Susanoo folds against Samehada though, and now we know the blade is part of Bee's assets. Barring a lucky Amaterasu I see Bee beating him.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Does too. 😛The cats? Nah, they're pets. 😛
Indeed, but whatever.
He did...sorta. And yeah, I ca see why you'd want more of Itachi. And yes, that would be cool. I'd like to see Itachi vs Nagato personally.
Brah, if it does not count to Karin of all people, it's a sure thing that it does not count to us. 😛
Nah. To get one of the cats to show the way to Nekobaa, Sasuke had to give it what basically is cat marijuana. They're definitely gangsters. 😛
Naruto didn't defeat him. Both Bee and Naruto couldn't put him down. vin
Yeah, more appearances from people like Minato, Itachi & Killer Bee would be kewl.
True, though Nagato would more than likely win that battle, especially if he had the 6 Paths.
Originally posted by Q99
Stats:Added Kyuubi-mode Naruto and Yashamaru
Hmm, though we didn't see much from them, what about the last generation of the Seven Swordsmen, or rather, a couple of them?
Also, still no reference for Kisame?
Originally posted by killermover
Why the hell is Sasuke behind Killer Bee(Susanoo > Bijuu mode), hell why is Killer Bee above Madara and Minato. And version of Madara could solo Bee.
Even with his Danzou battle level, he'd likely still lose to current Bee.
Not the weakened-shell Madara we had for most of the story up until now. That Madara has not got much in the way of offense. Thanks to Madara's intangibility, Hashirama's chakra, & Izanagi, he could win, but Bee still has the better odds.
Peak Madara w. EMS, and Madara w. Rinnegan are a different story though.
Even the Madara that fought Minato, would win against Bee, if only because he now has Kyuubi at his disposal.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Peak Madara w. EMS, and Madara w. Rinnegan are a different story though.
Even the Madara that fought Minato, would win against Bee, if only because he now has Kyuubi at his disposal.
Wouldn't Madara still be a shell of his former self during his fight with Minato?
In general I really want to know what warrants Tsunade as a full S. Her combat feats suck.....not to be confused with strength feats.