The Official Naruto series Thread

2. You can't quickly "wash" off oil by standing in the rain. You know that.

Dunking into one of the plentiful pools around on the other hand... it was removed by a water jutsu pretty easily, after all.

But let's not forget something else: Having your jutsu restricted does not take you out of a fight.

Orochimaru with no arms. Jiraiya with little chakra due to Tsunade's poison.

There's a huge difference between suffering a major disadvantage and being taken out.

3. Taijutsu against Jiraiya? That's very suicidal. I doubt few could tango with him in just his base form.

4. It's still silly and absurd. She bowed out. Jiraiya commented on it. She was defeated. It's absurd that you're giving her far more credit than is necessary.

He had a major advantage and would've won if they kept fighting, and she had a partner to swap places with, so it was the smart thing to do. That is absolutely not the same thing as her already being out.

Someone with good battle smarts like Minato would quickly deduce the "oil" weakness, as well. She just doesn't stack up against other S class ninja UNLESS she has prepared a shit load of explosive tags.

And all the S-class ninja without oil? I.e. all of them?

That's like saying Deidara's not an S-class because any other S-class ninja would figure out his electric weakness and defeat him. It's a pointless thing to say as most S-class don't have enough lightning jutsu to counteract his advantages... and it definitely doesn't change that having a weakness to a specific thing doesn't necessarily lower your rank. The more narrow and specific weakness, the less likely it does. At least lightning is common.

Conversely, a more physical based S-class ninja is more screwed against her than normal no matter how smart they are, so she similarly has a compensating advantage.

And she does have explosive tags normally, you realize. Just not billions- and with billions, she could take down most S+ ninja, let alone S. Let's see Onoki try and dust away that many, or Muu invisible his way out of that one.

Also she could have paper-clones already active, paper already deployed, and so on.... it's not an instant "I-win" by any means. An A-rank ninja with oil could still get their butts kicked by her.

5. Why do I need to prove anything, at all? It's already been proven: she gets owned by a decent S class ninja. She's an A+ without much prep.

Way to ignore her other fight, or how her capabilities would actually stack up to most foes. You're glossing over everything but the oil for some odd reason.

With prep, she's pretty much S+.

With a shitload of prep time, she would still lose to most S class.

With preptime, she almost killed an S+ twice, the first time without the mega-prep jutsu. Most S class would be dead multiple times over against what she did.

She's been in two fights. One she backed off, the other she did more damage than Minato did against the same opponent.

Yamato could easily cover himself up with that wood barrier. Minato could port out of there. Should I go on?

She'd blow through a wood barrier by Yamato with tags. Conversely, what's he going to do to her? His offense is largely physical, she can scatter around it then hit him. Fill the air with paper so he has to turtle up and make hit hard to fight back. Use a few hundred tags to blow through his defense then get him.

I don't see him standing much of a chance at all personally.

Minato could, but Minato can beat just about anyone. Even then, she can fill so much of the battlefield with paper that it'd be trickier for him than most foes.

6. Would not the water chasm feat require a lake of water to use? I think it would. Or are you implying something else?

Nope. It's just a whole lot of papers. Konan did it at a lake there, but Konan doesn't have water jutsu. That's just where she happened to use the jutsu. Why would it require a lake?

7. Here's the kicker: I concede everything because she's supposed to be an S-Class ninja. I was reading back on the chapters a few days ago and it mentioned something about her and Nagato being part of the "S-Class" missing nin group or something. I don't feel like reading back and finding it as I really don't remember...but I know it was between chapters 470 to present (yes, I'm serious).

But you should be conceding based on her shown, S-class level power.

You're treating like a moderate weakness to jutsu that is extremely rare is enough to bump off a whole letter grade when all of two ninja have it, both of whom could beat the wide majority of the S-classes anyway.

Originally posted by Q99
But let's not forget something else: Having your jutsu restricted does not take you out of a fight.

In this particular instance, is does.

Originally posted by Q99
He had a major advantage and would've won if they kept fighting, and she had a partner to swap places with, so it was the smart thing to do. That is absolutely not the same thing as her already being out.

I disagree quite thoroughly. He defeated her handily and it was pointless to fight, further. That's a win.

Originally posted by Q99
And all the S-class ninja without oil? I.e. all of them?

Madara showed us that speed is a good tactic against her, as well. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Conversely, a more physical based S-class ninja is more screwed against her than normal no matter how smart they are, so she similarly has a compensating advantage.

Since she was taken down by a sword, I also disagree here, as well. Taijutsu was the way she died, btw. Sure, your response will be "she was tired" or "she was powering up a super move (and she was)." But she still lost to taijutsu. You're treating her "flying paper" form as something she can do permanently. She can't: it requires chakra do do that and she'll run out eventually OR she'll have to go tangible to do a powerful move...and that's a given against powerful ninja.

Originally posted by Q99
And she does have explosive tags normally, you realize. Just not billions- and with billions, she could take down most S+ ninja, let alone S. Let's see Onoki try and dust away that many, or Muu invisible his way out of that one.

I disagree, obviously. Any speedy ninja in the S class zone will make her explosions useless. She was not shown having any speed. Madara is a fairly slow S-class. It's his eyes and intangibility that make him so formidable (before his super upgrades).

Originally posted by Q99
Also she could have paper-clones already active, paper already deployed, and so on.... it's not an instant "I-win" by any means. An A-rank ninja with oil could still get their butts kicked by her.

So you're injecting prep, huh?

In that case, Kabuto is an SSS+ class ninja. Naruto is a solid SS+. Sarutobi is a SS+. Minato is unbeatable. And so forth.

That's not how it works and it isn't how it should work.

If you want to make a "with prep" list, go ahead. I'm not interested in that list as it would be a cluster f***.

And, I disagree that an A-ranked ninja would get their butts kicked by her. That depends on the ninja. With or without oil.

Originally posted by Q99
Way to ignore her other fight, or how her capabilities would actually stack up to most foes. You're glossing over everything but the oil for some odd reason.

With prep, she's pretty much S+.

Yes, with prep. But without it, she's an A.

Originally posted by Q99
With preptime, she almost killed an S+ twice, the first time without the mega-prep jutsu. Most S class would be dead multiple times over against what she did.

And Naruto, with prep (and observing someone for years and working out their weaknesses) could beat anyone that didn't have prep.

So way to overlook that she had prep, right?

Originally posted by Q99
She's been in two fights. One she backed off, the other she did more damage than Minato did against the same opponent.

No, one she got her ass thoroughly handed to her to such an extreme that she knew death was inevitable so she gave up.

The other she had a shitload of prep time and years to study her opponent. Those are hardly "high end" feats against S class ninja.

Originally posted by Q99
She'd blow through a wood barrier by Yamato with tags.

Well, of all the things you've said, this is the most incorrect. His wood barrier was able to stand up to a Kyuubi blast well enough when the forest and earth around him were getting obliterated.

Her tags aren't nearly that explosive. Explosive tags appear to be like grenades and she was firing them off consecutively in very very quick succession.

Again, you're also giving her prep.

The only way I could see those explosive tags being worth a damn against Yamato's wooden shield thing is if she exploded them all at once...which should be around the same level as a kyuubi blast.

Conversely, what's he going to do to her? His offense is largely physical, she can scatter around it then hit him. Fill the air with paper so he has to turtle up and make hit hard to fight back. Use a few hundred tags to blow through his defense then get him.

But why is he going to just sit there inside of his shell? You know he has far more options like building out a much much bigger wooden shield...building roots through the earth and traveling through the wood to entirely escape the blast, and so forth. 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
I don't see him standing much of a chance at all personally.

That's cause you are in lurv wit Konan. 313

To be honest, I don't see her standing much of a chance against someone like Yamato. Even with prep, I give Yamato the win 8 out of 10 times.

Originally posted by Q99
Minato could, but Minato can beat just about anyone.

awesome

Originally posted by Q99
Even then, she can fill so much of the battlefield with paper that it'd be trickier for him than most foes.

NOPE! He just ports all the way back home and pelvic thrust dances his way into his damn HOUSE! 🙂

bwhahahahahaha

Oh man. I got laughs out of that.

Originally posted by Q99
Nope. It's just a whole lot of papers. Konan did it at a lake there, but Konan doesn't have water jutsu. That's just where she happened to use the jutsu. Why would it require a lake?

How can she split a lake apart if there's no lake?

I was told it wasn't a whole lot of damn papers...but a lake.

And that there was a whole lot of damn papers splitting the lake (an indirect form of TK, if you will). Aura Angel was making this case to me. I believed it after I saw that there was water all around them towards the end of their fight...which means I was wrong there, as well. uhuh I feel better now that you're wrong, too. Let's go be wrong together in that beautiful room of flowers and pillars where Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan were laid to rest. doped

Originally posted by Q99
But you should be conceding based on her shown, S-class level power.

You're treating like a moderate weakness to jutsu that is extremely rare is enough to bump off a whole letter grade when all of two ninja have it, both of whom could beat the wide majority of the S-classes anyway.

I would consider it a major/devastating weakness, not a moderate. And Oil creation is not "rare": it's not a kekkei genkai. It's the same as something like "fire". Sure, there are probably uber powerful forms for those who have an affinity to oil creation similar to those that make fire (uchiha), but I would not say it's the same since it's just a creation tech.

Edit - Holy shit, Batman. That's too much.

My next reply will be giantly shorter. I've already conceded that she's S-class. So I'm not even sure why we are arguing. I think she's just a weak S-Class because I think speedsters and intelligent S-Class fighters can generally defeat her.

Madara showed us that speed is a good tactic against her, as well.

? Not really. Only when combined with being able to outlast her uber-jutsu, which almost no-one can.

Since she was taken down by a sword, I also disagree here, as well. Taijutsu was the way she died, btw. Sure, your response will be "she was tired" or "she was powering up a super move (and she was)." But she still lost to taijutsu. You're treating her "flying paper" form as something she can do permanently. She can't: it requires chakra do do that and she'll run out eventually OR she'll have to go tangible to do a powerful move...and that's a given against powerful ninja.

... she lost her paper form after doing one of the single most powerful jutsu ever used in the manga for ten minutes strait.

Meaning, she's only going to have that weakness after doing an attack on that level.

Meaning, almost any foe'd be dead before it crops up.

I disagree, obviously. Any speedy ninja in the S class zone will make her explosions useless. She was not shown having any speed. Madara is a fairly slow S-class. It's his eyes and intangibility that make him so formidable (before his super upgrades).

Madara was keeping up with Minato's physical speed pretty well, and he wasn't close to getting clear.

If by "any speedy ninja," you mean, "Probably only Minato and maybe Naruto," sure.

Also, if she saw someone escape them, she could redirect them at the person. They'd still have to dodge for ten minutes. Or she could abort and do something else.

So you're injecting prep, huh?

Nope. She can just make clones and paper constructs during a fight. Konan made lots of paper to attack people in the Konoha invasion, and that wasn't even the real her, just a clone. She also made the hidey-tree Nagato was in.

And, I disagree that an A-ranked ninja would get their butts kicked by her. That depends on the ninja. With or without oil.

It doesn't depend that much, she's flat-out more powerful than they are.

There's a pretty solid argument for moving Suigetsu up to A+ based on his intangibility and sword strength alone. Konan has intangibility, flight, attacks that are giant clouds of blades that surround opponents, large number of explosives (non-prep), and potentially small-army killing capabilities (again non-prep, even a non-tag version of her billion paper jutsu would be devastating).

If you can point to an A-rank that can army kill, point them out to me. We can talk about giving them a promotion.

Yes, with prep. But without it, she's an A.

Without it, she's an S.

Also I will note, you are the only person arguing she's an A. I actually had to argue against her being S+ right after the Madara fight 🙂 (people got a bit overly enthusiastic for awhile after a showing like that)

Well, of all the things you've said, this is the most incorrect. His wood barrier was able to stand up to a Kyuubi blast well enough when the forest and earth around him were getting obliterated.

The shockwave of the blast, not a direct hit. Not all that impressive, most defensive jutsu can do that kind of thing.

Her tags aren't nearly that explosive. Explosive tags appear to be like grenades and she was firing them off consecutively in very very quick succession.

When used in simultaneous groups of a hundred or more they're rather powerful.

Or she could do a whirlwind of blades and gnaw through a barrier, or form paper into a big spear to pierce a single point...

Again, you're also giving her prep.

No I'm not. That's the kind of stuff she does without prep, jutsu she does during a fight on the fly.

That's cause you are in lurv wit Konan.

You're losing the argument on points so you're trying to attack my motives. Classic logic fallacy.

But why is he going to just sit there inside of his shell? You know he has far more options like building out a much much bigger wooden shield...building roots through the earth and traveling through the wood to entirely escape the blast, and so forth.

Digging out takes time and chakra, and she has far more chakra than he does. Meanwhile she could do stuff too, make more paper constructs and all that.

Also while protected in a shell, he can't see where she is. While not protected in a shell, a swarm of paper will catch him, cut him up or wrap him up.

Conversely, neither his wood, earth, or water is actually able to really hurt her in paper form.

Not that her dispersion is her only defense; she blocked Jiraiya's fireball, mind you, her paper jutsu themselves have good power.

To be honest, I don't see her standing much of a chance against someone like Yamato. Even with prep, I give Yamato the win 8 out of 10 times.

He's got inferior defense and inferior offense, and a stamina problem she lacks.

And Yamato's even one of the better off A ranks against her- most rely on speed or counter-attacks for defense and don't have a good means to avoid being sliced up if she just fills the air with tons of paper. He can make a wood shell and surround himself for a temporary defense, few others can.

How can she split a lake apart if there's no lake?

Why would she have to split apart a lake? She made a ton of paper and explosives to murder the heck out of her opponent.

"Making paper," is the jutsu.

I was told it wasn't a whole lot of damn papers...but a lake.

There was a whole lot of paper, and a lake around it.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to argue here.

Konan made several billion pieces of paper. There happened to be a lake at that location.

I would consider it a major/devastating weakness, not a moderate.

It's removable by water and affects her less than Tsunade's or Sakura's drugs affect most targets.

It doesn't stop any jutsu she already has deployed like paper constructs, or thrown paper, or clones who can continue to fight as usual. Remember even one of her clones took out quite a few ninja in the invasion, she didn't even have to come personally.

It doesn't even stop her offensive techniques, just prevents her dispersion defense.

Do you think Suigetsu should be lowered from A because of his electricity weakness?

Are you applying this view on weaknesses to *everyone*, or just on one person?

And Oil creation is not "rare": it's not a kekkei genkai. It's the same as something like "fire". Sure, there are probably uber powerful forms for those who have an affinity to oil creation similar to those that make fire (uchiha), but I would not say it's the same since it's just a creation tech.

It's a technique that almost no-one has. Heck, specifically only Jiraiya uses it himself, even Minato'd have to go to summons.

It's not rare because it's a kekkei genkai. It's rare because no-one uses it.

I've already conceded that she's S-class. So I'm not even sure why we are arguing. I think she's just a weak S-Class because I think speedsters and intelligent S-Class fighters can generally defeat her.

Well, we're arguing because I disagree with your points.

Speedsters only work if she's not able to turn to paper, which is only a problem after a long, grueling fight that'd take more chakra to survive than any A-rank has.

And with intelligent fighters, it still relies on the presence of a very specific jutsu, or more-than-A-class power.

lol this was entertaining.

Konan is S.

Someone with good battle smarts like Minato would quickly deduce the "oil" weakness, as well.

Cause there are so many characters like that huh?

I just did a test. Go ask anyone what beats paper in a fight. More than likely, their answer will be fire/water/scissors. No one would think of Oil. Though Minato would indeed use it, since he doesn't really have access to fire and water won't work.

Edit: OH! And I had a totally prophetic dream last night. Sasuke's EMS will look completely different than what we've expected. And look a thousand times more stupid.

Just read the last few chapters for the first time. I'm really starting to like this series again.

Cause Itachi is back?

No, because the fights actually depend on good tactics and techniques, not deus ex machinas and talking out their feelings.

Shisui's eye is a deus ex machina though. Just one triggered early.

seriously, konan is a nightmare opponent for a lot of characters, not even counting her moses technique.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Shisui's eye is a deus ex machina though. Just one triggered early.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/81418428/1

It's out.

Spoiler:
Naruto and Gaara work together to take down Mu. Onoki grounds him. Mizukage is too strong for his own good and has annihilated his opponents.

Raikage can only be beaten by wind users, which I'm thinking is the most rare nature considering a statment from Temari.

Naruto shows up and seems to be preparing to take on the Raikage. Gaara and Onoki will probably be going after Mizukage.

Sasuke appears, destroying the Zetsu around him with a sword(I think) of Amaterasu. He has taken off his bandages. The chapter ends with his EMS being revealed!

Spoiler:
It squares with Asuma's comment on wind users being rare too. There are other wind users- like Baki- but not with the divison.

In terms of pure wind users, as opposed to kekkei genkai users where wind is one element, I think Temari and Naruto are the two strongest living ones in the Alliance.

Oh god Sasukes back. Well the fun was nice while it lasted.

Originally posted by Q99
? Not really. Only when combined with being able to outlast her uber-jutsu, which almost no-one can.

I disagree and I've provided one example.

5-10 minutes is hardly a "long time."

Originally posted by Q99
... she lost her paper form after doing one of the single most powerful jutsu ever used in the manga for ten minutes strait.

Meaning, she's only going to have that weakness after doing an attack on that level.

Meaning, almost any foe'd be dead before it crops up.

She did?

It looked like she was powering up another uber attack.

Originally posted by Q99
Madara was keeping up with Minato's physical speed pretty well, and he wasn't close to getting clear.

If by "any speedy ninja," you mean, "Probably only Minato and maybe Naruto," sure.

Also, if she saw someone escape them, she could redirect them at the person. They'd still have to dodge for ten minutes. Or she could abort and do something else.

I think that Kakashi, Sasuke, Might Guy, Naruto, A, Bee, Mifune, Minato, Jiraiya, and possibly Neji. That's quite a huge list.

Originally posted by Q99
Nope. She can just make clones and paper constructs during a fight. Konan made lots of paper to attack people in the Konoha invasion, and that wasn't even the real her, just a clone. She also made the hidey-tree Nagato was in.

No name fodder, of course. Keep that in mind when you want to use her no-name fodder feats.

Originally posted by Q99
It doesn't depend that much, she's flat-out more powerful than they are.

I disagree, obviously.

Originally posted by Q99
There's a pretty solid argument for moving Suigetsu up to A+ based on his intangibility and sword strength alone. Konan has intangibility, flight, attacks that are giant clouds of blades that surround opponents, large number of explosives (non-prep), and potentially small-army killing capabilities (again non-prep, even a non-tag version of her billion paper jutsu would be devastating).

Konan does not have intangibility on par with Madara or Suigetsu.

She is not an army killer WITHOUT large amounts of prep. I mean, shit, you are the biggest fangirl I've ever seen for Konan. You're getting into the ridiculous, now.

Originally posted by Q99
If you can point to an A-rank that can army kill, point them out to me. We can talk about giving them a promotion.

Uh, no. 😬

Originally posted by Q99
Without it, she's an S.

A.

Originally posted by Q99
Also I will note, you are the only person arguing she's an A. I actually had to argue against her being S+ right after the Madara fight 🙂 (people got a bit overly enthusiastic for awhile after a showing like that)

That's because I am approaching this more clearly. I am not a fanboy of very many Naruto characters. Pretty much just Naruto, Minato, and Itachi are the only characters I have a boner for.

Originally posted by Q99
The shockwave of the blast, not a direct hit. Not all that impressive, most defensive jutsu can do that kind of thing.

Oh, come on, now. 😬 That's the stupidest thing you've ever posted.

Sorry to be so blunt..but there's no way you can believe that shit when the trees and earth around him were being blown away.

The only barriers I can see doing that are a very short list:

1. Oro's ultimate barrier.

2. Susano'o (fully formed).

3. Kushina's kyuubi holding barrier.

4. And the sound four barrier that held in Oro and Sarutobi.

Originally posted by Q99
When used in simultaneous groups of a hundred or more they're rather powerful.

Or she could do a whirlwind of blades and gnaw through a barrier, or form paper into a big spear to pierce a single point...

I've argued that her billion tags can be used to make a bijuu sized blast.

Originally posted by Q99
No I'm not. That's the kind of stuff she does without prep, jutsu she does during a fight on the fly.

You are. That's not debatable. She can't do that massive stuff you refer to WITHOUT prep.

Originally posted by Q99
You're losing the argument on points so you're trying to attack my motives. Classic logic fallacy.

Funny since you've made the worst arguments I have ever seen from you and have lost out on pretty much every single point you've brought up.

Originally posted by Q99
Digging out takes time and chakra, and she has far more chakra than he does. Meanwhile she could do stuff too, make more paper constructs and all that.

No it doesn't as we clearly see him digging through the earth at speedy rate in the Naruto vs. Oro fight.

Additionally, this chakra rating you've given her is ass-pulled as hell. There's no logical reasoning behind that. Fangirl, much?

And while she's spending quite a bit of time making tags, she's already been killed by Yamato.

Originally posted by Q99
Also while protected in a shell, he can't see where she is. While not protected in a shell, a swarm of paper will catch him, cut him up or wrap him up.

Conversely, neither his wood, earth, or water is actually able to really hurt her in paper form.

Not that her dispersion is her only defense; she blocked Jiraiya's fireball, mind you, her paper jutsu themselves have good power.

That's lame of you, isn't it?

While he's in a shell, his wood clone sees everything. While he's in a shell, he's already gone and moved somewhere else where she can't see him and he can see her.

While he's in the shell, she wastes tons of chakra while he eats breakfast, takes a dump, and drops a deuce.

And if she wraps him up, he easily shrugs it off because, you know...he can change the shape of his body quite easily.

But you seem to think she has chakra sensing abilities (check this out: Yamato does to a certain degree. teehee). You seem to think Yamato just sits there and does nothing. HA!

Originally posted by Q99
He's got inferior defense and inferior offense, and a stamina problem she lacks.

Superior defense and offense, as long as she doesn't get prep.

Stamina cannot be determined.

Originally posted by Q99
And Yamato's even one of the better off A ranks against her- most rely on speed or counter-attacks for defense and don't have a good means to avoid being sliced up if she just fills the air with tons of paper. He can make a wood shell and surround himself for a temporary defense, few others can.

Not just better off, he beats her without much problem due to the nature of his ability. It's just a really bad match up for her. I don't think many other A ranks can beat her...which is why I ultimately have to say she's S. But one of the lowest S's, for sure.

Originally posted by Q99
Why would she have to split apart a lake? She made a ton of paper and explosives to murder the heck out of her opponent.

"Making paper," is the jutsu.

You brought it up, you tell me.

And thanks for clearing that last part up for me. 😬

Originally posted by Q99
There was a whole lot of paper, and a lake around it.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to argue here.

Konan made several billion pieces of paper. There happened to be a lake at that location.

K.

But it sounded like you were saying it was a paper lake. It was a lake with paper in it, but not a paper lake. I had argued that it was a paper lake...and AA corrected me. That's it. That was also quite clear.

Originally posted by Q99
*It's removable by water and affects her less than Tsunade's or Sakura's drugs affect most targets.

**It doesn't stop any jutsu she already has deployed like paper constructs, or thrown paper, or clones who can continue to fight as usual. Remember even one of her clones took out quite a few ninja in the invasion, she didn't even have to come personally.

***It doesn't even stop her offensive techniques, just prevents her dispersion defense.

****Do you think Suigetsu should be lowered from A because of his electricity weakness?

Are you applying this view on weaknesses to *everyone*, or just on one person?

Here are the necessary corrections to your post in order of appearance:

*It is difficult to remove by water.

**It greatly weakens are paper jutsus...which is everything she oes.

***Same as above. Yes, it affects offense, as well.

****No, A is just fine. In fact, you're making my point for me. 🙂 By your logic, you should move Konan to A, btw.

To the last question: obviously not because you just proved my point with Suigetsu. Thanks, btw.

Originally posted by Q99
It's a technique that almost no-one has. Heck, specifically only Jiraiya uses it himself, even Minato'd have to go to summons.

It's not rare because it's a kekkei genkai. It's rare because no-one uses it.

You claim it's rare but it's not a kekkei genkai. The burden of proof is on your to prove that it's rare and a KG (it's not, I checked). I'm not making that claim.

This is really the only point that cannot be debated: it's not a KG and it's un-provable if it's rare.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, we're arguing because I disagree with your points.

No, we're arguing because you love the shit out of Konan and are being hypocritical about it. You suggested dropping Water Boy down to B because of his weakness to lightning...but then want to make a case for Konan staying at S...despite her debilitating weakness to oil. Why not keep them both at A and Konan as S with prep? But I'm not arguing that anymore. I concede that she's S. I just don't think she's as awesome as you do.

Originally posted by Q99
Speedsters only work if she's not able to turn to paper, which is only a problem after a long, grueling fight that'd take more chakra to survive than any A-rank has.

No, speedsters work because her paper jutsu becomes useless because it cannot hit her. She will tire out much faster than they will and she will become tangible at points making her an easy target.

Speedsters are a big weakness of hers, imo..because she's not a sensor and she's not very fast. She remains stationary most of the time because of how much she relies on her paper.

Also, I love how you gimp chakra levels to try and win.

I'll play it like you:

She doesn't have enough chakra to go up against people in A-Rank because her paper jutsu uses hardly any chakra but if she uses big attacks that pretty much any speedster can avoid, she's done in 2 or 3 of them and the A rank speedster just laughs as he or she quickly kills her.

dur

Originally posted by Q99
And with intelligent fighters, it still relies on the presence of a very specific jutsu, or more-than-A-class power.

No it doesn't as I've clearly outlined even before this post.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Cause there are so many characters like that huh?

Yeah, half the A ranks, most the S ranks on up.

Nice try, you did your best.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I just did a test. Go ask anyone what beats paper in a fight. More than likely, their answer will be fire/water/scissors. No one would think of Oil. Though Minato would indeed use it, since he doesn't really have access to fire and water won't work.

You just did a test in the real world for real people, huh?

Good job. facepalm

Additionally, someone with a fire affinity, I personally believe, would do much better against her paper than Jiraiya.

New chapter was decent.

I liked how surprised Gaara was. It was like he farted and did not expect to shit himself at the same time.

And Mummy-Kage was a badass. Quite an awesome character. I also like how Gaara and Naruto make a really good team without ever needing to practice. Naruto did not even tell Gaara exactly what to do and Gaara knew what he meant by saying "your sand." lol

Good times.

But, yeah, now that Sasuke's back...he may be on a war path to take out Madara. He was certainly taking out Mr. Splooge with ease. Why am I looking forward to seeing how Sasuke's gonna change things? I shouldn't...I should be more like Nephthys. Am I sick?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh god Sasukes back. Well the fun was nice while it lasted.

Haters gonna hate.

Originally posted by Q99

Spoiler:
It squares with Asuma's comment on wind users being rare too. There are other wind users- like Baki- but not with the divison.

In terms of pure wind users, as opposed to kekkei genkai users where wind is one element, I think Temari and Naruto are the two strongest living ones in the Alliance.

I actually didn't remember that comment.

Temari needs to summon her weasel thing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah, half the A ranks, most the S ranks on up.

Nice try, you did your best.

You just did a test in the real world for real people, huh?

Good job. facepalm

Additionally, someone with a fire affinity, I personally believe, would do much better against her paper than Jiraiya.

With Minato level intelligence? Nope, not many.

Within the context of a fictional world of course. Everyone would guess fire, which is what most would use. Jiraiya used it initially before seeing that it didn't work and used oil thereafter.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But, yeah, now that Sasuke's back...he may be on a war path to take out Madara. He was certainly taking out Mr. Splooge with ease. Why am I looking forward to seeing how Sasuke's gonna change things? I shouldn't...I should be more like Nephthys. Am I sick?

Yes. We don't want things to change. The stories moving in a very promising direction and Sasuke has a loooong history of sucking up story time with his powers of suck.

Haters gonna hate.

Damn right.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
With Minato level intelligence? Nope, not many.

Within the context of a fictional world of course. Everyone would guess fire, which is what most would use. Jiraiya used it initially before seeing that it didn't work and used oil thereafter.

You see it as me saying that Minato's best is what is required.

That's not the case. He's just an example of one ninja who easily fits that requirement. Since I've clarified exactly what I meant, there's really no point in continuing the line of reasoning that, "oh, dadudemon, you obviously only mean that people have to be at least as smart as Minato" cause that's not what I was arguing.

I agree that most would use fire in the fictional universe. I thought you meant you asked real world people which would be lame.

I also think just more powerful fire would work very much in his favor.

Lastly, that fact that she used paper to put out a fire is just stupid and should be considered PIS just because Kishimoto wanted to make the obviously one-sided fight more interesting. I reject Kishimoto's Konan anti-fire feat and submit my own feat:

The fire quickly burned up the paper she threw at it but her ability to make more paper and quickly throw it at the fire eventually smothered the fire. So Jiraiya covered her with oil and laughs as she gets mad because he can easily continue with the fire but wants her to sulk in her oil realizing that if he does fire, she will insta-die.

There, that feat fits more in tune with Naruto and I like that version better. 313