Originally posted by dadudemon
You claim it's rare but it's not a kekkei genkai. The burden of proof is on your to prove that it's rare and a KG (it's not, I checked). I'm not making that claim.This is really the only point that cannot be debated: it's not a KG and it's un-provable if it's rare.
I never claimed it was a KG to begin with. There are rare jutsu that aren't KG after all (like many of the family-clan techniques, the InoShikaCho techniques are all noted as rare).
As for it being rare, here are the people who have been shown to use it: Jiraiya, Gamabunta.
Complete list.
At bare minimum, none of the other ninja we have listed have been shown to have it. Making it really pointless to say "they'll figure it out," when they don't even have it to use.
Out of several hundred ninja, one and a summon using it is pretty darn rare.
No, we're arguing because you love the shit out of Konan and are being hypocritical about it. You suggested dropping Water Boy down to B because of his weakness to lightning...but then want to make a case for Konan staying at S...despite her debilitating weakness to oil.
No, I'm for keeping Suigetsu at A. I'm just using him as an example of how you are applying a double standard on weaknesses by saying she should be dropped down an entire letter grade for a super-rare minor weakness, while you don't have a problem with people who have much more common weaknesses and less power being at their levels.
I'm just pointing out how you're being a big darn hypocrite. Weaknesses are very common in Naruto, yet you're asking for one and only one person to get a major demotion based on it alone.
If I applied your standard, I'd have to demote a dozen or more ninja. Possibly every single element user, since those come in with built-in weaknesses.
Btw.... are you completely forgetting about the +/- ranks or something? Because you're arguing Konan be bumped down a total of 3 slots.
Why not keep them both at A and Konan as S with prep?
Because Konan's much more powerful than Suigetsu? I mean, their offense isn't even in the same ballpark.
He's badass, but he's a hard to kill swordsperson. Konan's a hard-to-kill flier with strong flexible defense, area-of-effect offense, and lots of it.
Konan has, simply put, demonstrated S-class combat ability.
But I'm not arguing that anymore. I concede that she's S. I just don't think she's as awesome as you do.
Me and apparently everyone else. You're standing alone on this, dadudemon, and apparently mostly on stuff directly contradicted by on-panel feats.
You're conceding based on Pain saying so, but you're still not taking an objective look at the data.
No, speedsters work because her paper jutsu becomes useless because it cannot hit her. She will tire out much faster than they will and she will become tangible at points making her an easy target.
Except she's been shown to be able to surrounded Madara rather quickly and hasn't had a problem with speed when she's attacking. That's one of her big threats that we've seen- she can put so many attacks in the air that defense is really really hard, especially with just speed.
And it was an incredibly huge feat that made her tire out. How will she tire out faster when she's done a jutsu bigger than anything any A-rank is done (and many S-ranks for that matter), and not only that but kept it going for a sustain time?
Speedsters are a big weakness of hers, imo..because she's not a sensor and she's not very fast. She remains stationary most of the time because of how much she relies on her paper.
Gaara doesn't move a lot and speed alone isn't near enough against him, and like him her attacks are fast.
Also, when she does move... she flies. As fast as her paper shuriken even, since she can turn into them. Excellent mobility there.
And of course... she does have paper which very few can deal with. Saying her problem is she relies on paper is like saying Deidara relies on bombs, Gaara relies on sand, or so on. It's technically true, but the jutsu are powerful enough it really doesn't matter.
Also, I love how you gimp chakra levels to try and win.
Not really. Yamato gets really exhausted making a row of houses or cliff+waterfall.
Konan kept her uber-jutsu going for ten minutes.
Konan's demonstrated far more in other words. From what we've seen, Yamato would collapse from exhaustion before she'd even be breathing hard if they just tossed their jutsu at each other til one fell.
I'll play it like you:She doesn't have enough chakra to go up against people in A-Rank because her paper jutsu uses hardly any chakra but if she uses big attacks that pretty much any speedster can avoid, she's done in 2 or 3 of them and the A rank speedster just laughs as he or she quickly kills her.
You're... blatantly ignoring what she's done in both speed and stamina.
I also think just more powerful fire would work very much in his favor.Lastly, that fact that she used paper to put out a fire is just stupid and should be considered PIS just because Kishimoto wanted to make the obviously one-sided fight more interesting. I reject Kishimoto's Konan anti-fire feat and submit my own feat:
And in defense.
Ok, it's official, you aren't even talking about Konan at all. Just how you want her to be.
You creatively 're-interpret' her attack's speed down, her stamina down, and her defense down.
You can't just ignore how someone's performed when ranking them.
Since I've stated half of the A tiers, already, this should not even be discussed. I've clearly clarified.
Konan'd destroy most A-ranks. They don't have a jutsu to exploit her 'weakness' even if they wanted to, and she has way more power.