The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ebisu's a Special Jounin. Took out two of Kakuzu's hearts. Counts as twice.
Like the genins that beat two of the Sound 4 didn't have help.
Nah, Naruto won that fight. Not fair and square of course, far from it, but he still won, so it still counts, technically.

Not really considering Hidan and Kakashi took out a heart. Plus his hearts aren't opponents 😄

IMHO the Sound 4 were just super-charged Genin who were eached outclassed in their element but still had the curse mark to overpower said Genin as a last resort.

And has anyone noticed that Naruto and Sasuke both enjoy beating up Zetsus with over-the-top attacks.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ebisu's a Special Jounin. Took out two of Kakuzu's hearts. Counts as twice.
Like the genins that beat two of the Sound 4 didn't have help.
Nah, Naruto won that fight. Not fair and square of course, far from it, but he still won, so it still counts, technically.

For a walk? 😛

Minato wasn't one of the choices, and Hinata's closer to Minato, so Hinata it is.
I think that he'd blow his lid. Everybody knows that he has repressed sexual urges towards Hinata.

Who is beaten by genin. And nah, it doesn't.
Two of them didn't. Only one genin had a hard time against one of the Sound for. Said genin was fighting two on one.
Nah, it doesn't. Like saying Sasuke really did beat Itachi.

To...?

Nah, Minato is the answer.
I think he got those out of his system a while ago. He came while beating her up.

I need a tiebreaker on Ittan. I've got two votes so far, one at B+ and one in the As.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka

IMHO the Sound 4 were just super-charged Genin who were eached outclassed in their element but still had the curse mark to overpower said Genin as a last resort.

I'd say chunin. None of the kids they fought were genin level by that point, and the only two who didn't need help were the strongest (Neji) and the one with an uber-dangerous last resort technique (Choji).

Originally posted by Q99
He decides the power of people.

This is an example of having her not go down easily simply by having her be too strong to go down easily.

That's not PIS or CIS, that is Kishimoto deciding she's that strong.

You're still stuck on the same point that is not directly addressing what I've stated.

It is Kishimoto executing CIS with Madara which happens to create PIS to make Konan look stronger.

To me, what you're doing is like this:

Me: The Corvette ZR1 is awesome because it's handling is a giant improvement over the Z06. hmm

You: No it's not because the ZR1 still has a radio! 😠

Me: WTF. We are not even talking about the same things. 😕

You: Yes we are! The ZR1 and the Z06! I'm still right...radio is still in both.

Me: facepalm

Also, I voted on Ittan being a B+ or an A-.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Who is beaten by genin. And nah, it doesn't.
Two of them didn't. Only one genin had a hard time against one of the Sound for. Said genin was fighting two on one.
Nah, it doesn't. Like saying Sasuke really did beat Itachi.

To...?

Nah, Minato is the answer.
I think he got those out of his system a while ago. He came while beating her up.

Ebisu beaten by Genin? Wha? It does when Kakuzu resurrects himself with each heart.
Only one? Shikamaru was outclassed last I checked. Kiba was outclassed, despite having Akamaru to even the number difference. Neji was outclassed. Chouji was outclassed until he used something that might kill him.
Since I really don't care, I'll change my answer. Naruto beat Deva Path.

Outside. vin

Can't be, since Minato was never a part of the question.
True. Maybe he's now interested in Hanabi. mmm
Didn't you want Hanabi and Sasuke to produce epic kids?

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Not really considering Hidan and Kakashi took out a heart. Plus his hearts aren't opponents 😄

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ebisu beaten by Genin? Wha? It does when Kakuzu resurrects himself with each heart.
Only one? Shikamaru was outclassed last I checked. Kiba was outclassed, despite having Akamaru to even the number difference. Neji was outclassed. Chouji was outclassed until he used something that might kill him.
Since I really don't care, I'll change my answer. Naruto beat Deva Path.

Ebisu got beaten by Tranny-no-jutsu 🙂 . Oh and even if Kakuzu's hearts register as defeat counts then Naruto still got help and has main character status...of which only Sasuke is immune too 😄

Shikamaru technically outsmarted Tayuya, Choji did the equivallent of the 8th Gate at the time, Kiba's is iffy for me, and Neji legitimately beat his opponent even if he almost died. However they would've all won with mid difficulty were it not for C2 thus supporting my claim of super-charged Genin/Chunin.

Meh....Minato hit the reset button on Naruto's vitals with the seal but whatever.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're still stuck on the same point that is not directly addressing what I've stated.

It is Kishimoto executing CIS with Madara which happens to create PIS to make Konan look stronger.

Or, if she is that strong, it's neither CIS or PIS.

And her being that strong makes sense.

Given a choice between it being CIS and PIS, or it just being her actual power level, considering we'd barely seen her fight before that, it being her power level works.

To me, what you're doing is like this:

Me: The Corvette ZR1 is awesome because it's handling is a giant improvement over the Z06. hmm

You: No it's not because the ZR1 still has a radio! 😠

Me: WTF. We are not even talking about the same things. 😕

But I've already gone over why I feel you're underestimating her strength too. I think you're vastly overrating her weakness (both it's effectiveness and it's commonness. Basic elemental advantage weaknesses are much more common, if I counted it that big I'd have to do the same for everyone else), underrating her strengths, she's shown that her attacks are plentiful in quantity and can be hard to avoid as well as being flexible, she has not shown speed problems, etc. etc..

Rather than going over all that again, I'm just pointing out we have two interpretations, one of which makes CIS and PIS and the other is consistent with none of those problem.

It's basically like saying, Person 1 says Car A can qualify in the Indy 500, Person 2 doesn't think it has what it takes. Car A qualified in the Indy 500. We can either make excuses for why Person 2's reason and the result don't match up, or we can note that it did in fact do just as person 1 says.

Also, I voted on Ittan being a B+ or an A-.

Wanna pick one? 🙂

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ebisu beaten by Genin? Wha? It does when Kakuzu resurrects himself with each heart.
Only one? Shikamaru was outclassed last I checked. Kiba was outclassed, despite having Akamaru to even the number difference. Neji was outclassed. Chouji was outclassed until he used something that might kill him.
Since I really don't care, I'll change my answer. Naruto beat Deva Path.

Outside. vin

Can't be, since Minato was never a part of the question.
True. Maybe he's now interested in Hanabi. mmm
Didn't you want Hanabi and Sasuke to produce epic kids?

Chapter 2. But that doesn't count as killing him twice. Just killing two hearts. Kakashi was the one who ultimately killed him.

As in, had a hard time that required assistance. Shikimaru wasn't a genin and Neji and Choji did in fact win their fights. Kiba, who was outnumbered, was the only one that needed real help.
No, he didn't. Did you forget the part where Deva had him dead to rights before Hinata jumped in? 😛

Where outside?

Yes he was. 😮
Hanabi is too good for him.

Originally posted by Q99
Or, if she is that strong, it's neither CIS or PIS.

And her being that strong makes sense.

Given a choice between it being CIS and PIS, or it just being her actual power level, considering we'd barely seen her fight before that, it being her power level works.

No, I consider his innaction, when it was clearly a trap, to be CIS which turns it to PIS.

He could have averted the entire situation. We have to rely on him being "stupid" which goes against Kishi's intentions with his character.

I would feel better about this particular point if you arguged that Kishi was trying to show Madara's vulnerability.

At least it's a supportable line of reasoning instead of just two opinions colliding.

However, I'd still argue against that by pointing out that he had just built up Madara as some sort of master planner and his plans were never really foiled but the first...but rather, they succeeded. Meaning, a clear contradiction because something as simple as, "oh, lol..it's an obvious trap. I may want to port away to take a dump all over this trap. BRB, lol."

Originally posted by Q99
But I've already gone over why I feel you're underestimating her strength too. I think you're vastly overrating her weakness (both it's effectiveness and it's commonness. Basic elemental advantage weaknesses are much more common, if I counted it that big I'd have to do the same for everyone else), underrating her strengths, she's shown that her attacks are plentiful in quantity and can be hard to avoid as well as being flexible, she has not shown speed problems, etc. etc..

No, I think I've nailed her weakness fairly well. It don't think it's a massive weakness, but I think it's significant.

I don't consider elemental weaknesses as big as this one, however.

Originally posted by Q99
Rather than going over all that again, I'm just pointing out we have two interpretations, one of which makes CIS and PIS and the other is consistent with none of those problem.

I disagree because your angle on my thoughts about the CIS turned PIS is still not being applied in the way I intend it to be.

Originally posted by Q99
It's basically like saying, Person 1 says Car A can qualify in the Indy 500, Person 2 doesn't think it has what it takes. Car A qualified in the Indy 500. We can either make excuses for why Person 2's reason and the result don't match up, or we can note that it did in fact do just as person 1 says.

Actually, using your example, it's like this:

Person 1 says Character A qualifies for the Indy 500 because one of the top racers in the Indy 500 says Character A qualifies (indirectly).

Person 2 says Character A probably does qualify for the Indy 500 but says Character A's feats of playing Forza Motor Sports 3, in a state of the art system, for hours on end (and mastering the tracks) is quite awesome, but no the same as actually being there. Technically, it's there...but not quite.

Originally posted by Q99
Wanna pick one? 🙂

I can't. I needed to see one more feat that showcased A-level strategy to push more towards A-. OR..I needed to see a weak attempt at something that failed to put him in B+. I just can't decide.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, I consider his innaction, when it was clearly a trap, to be CIS which turns it to PIS.

He could have averted the entire situation. We have to rely on him being "stupid" which goes against Kishi's intentions with his character.

However, I'd still argue against that by pointing out that he had just built up Madara as some sort of master planner and his plans were never really foiled but the first...but rather, they succeeded. Meaning, a clear contradiction because something as simple as, "oh, lol..it's an obvious trap. I may want to port away to take a dump all over this trap. BRB, lol."

1. Not all of Madara's plans succeed. I.e, Nagato.

2. I'm not seeing where you see his inaction. Are you talking about when she used her first attack and he just decided to wait it out? Well yeah, he had no choice. He needed to capture her. And since it was a suicide attack, he needed to make sure that she lived so he could get the info he needed.

Or are you talking about when she used her big attack and he saw it and then tried to get away ASAP like any sane person?

😐

Yeah, it doesn't really seem like stupidity to me. To port, he needs to make himself solid first; when he tried, he almost got blown to bits and that dissuaded future efforts.

More rankings!

Think it safe to put 3rd Raikage at S?

We know his attack (black lightning), his endurance, and a feat (3-day decoy against an entire army).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

Or are you talking about when she used her big attack and he saw it and then tried to get away ASAP like any sane person?

😐

Yes. We literally saw him try and fail to escape.

Originally posted by Q99
More rankings!

Think it safe to put 3rd Raikage at S?

We know his attack (black lightning), his endurance, and a feat (3-day decoy against an entire army).

Yes. We literally saw him try and fail to escape.

I'm good with that. He has more going for him than his kid at least, who is already S class. Though I do wonder if the 3rd is as fast as his son. Probably not.

I doubt it on the grounds that while he was said to have good speed, he's dodged precisely squat so far.

If he did, I could even maybe see him at S+ (that speed plus a ranged specialist?), but as people aren't as terrified of him as they are of Muu, I think that'd be jumping the gun.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Chapter 2. But that doesn't count as killing him twice. Just killing two hearts. Kakashi was the one who ultimately killed him.

As in, had a hard time that required assistance. Shikimaru wasn't a genin and Neji and Choji did in fact win their fights. Kiba, who was outnumbered, was the only one that needed real help.
No, he didn't. Did you forget the part where Deva had him dead to rights before Hinata jumped in? 😛

Where outside?

Yes he was. 😮
Hanabi is too good for him.

So Ebisu was beaten by the jutsu that takes out Kages right?
Nah, it counts as twice when Kakuzu can resurrect himself by using one heart. Kakashi killed him at first, but ultimately failed because of the resurrection.

Oh right, Shikamaru wasn't a genin. facepalm
Both Neji and Chouji were pretty much f***ed until PIS set in for the former, and self-sacrifice for the other.
I'm talking about after Minato saved his ass. 😛 Yeah, Nagato was very low on chakra (though enough to make the CT bigger), but Naruto had only one shot of Sage mode that was wasted.

Somewhere over the Rainbow? I already told you he's unpredictable. 😛

Nope, you confused Minato for Hinata, which is why I saved you the time, and made your choice Hinata. 😛
Nah bro. Sasuke's too good for her. Besides, she likes bad boys.

Originally posted by Q99
More rankings!

Think it safe to put 3rd Raikage at S?

We know his attack (black lightning), his endurance, and a feat (3-day decoy against an entire army).

Yep.
Plus we could put down the Amber Pot as one of his tools, as he used it to seal the Hachibi.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
1. Not all of Madara's plans succeed. I.e, Nagato.

2. I'm not seeing where you see his inaction. Are you talking about when she used her first attack and he just decided to wait it out? Well yeah, he had no choice. He needed to capture her. And since it was a suicide attack, he needed to make sure that she lived so he could get the info he needed.

Or are you talking about when she used her big attack and he saw it and then tried to get away ASAP like any sane person?

😐

How about before all of that?

Like I've been saying or ages, now?

Why is that so hard for all of you to grasp? 😬

Additionally...why DIDN'T he port away when that massive ocean was opened up? I call more B.S.

The excused you guys cry about: But, but, but! The paper was so faaaaast, man! It was sooo faasssst!

That's just more bullshit and a giant bullshit counter.

He was more than fast enough against Minato. So why is he all of a sudden slowed waaaaay the **** down against Konan so she can make her paper travel quite a huge distance to him?

But...but...but....her paper travels soooo fast, man!

More bullshit. It's not that fast because Jiraiya only had to do two rolls, in base form, to get out of the way of her "paper shuriken" attack. Those pieces of paper were NOT in shuriken mode.

What now? HMMMM?

What ELSE you guys got?

More justifications for why Kishi wrote some shit to give Konan a last hurrah? I am not buying it. Stop being a Kishi apologetic and just face reality: he gimped Madara to the point of CIS and PIS occurring JUST to give us one last awesome fight form her because she was a fan favorite.

Why do you guys fight against something that is ginormously obvious? I mean...do you guys actually believe your own bullshit or do you secretly know what is obvious? I am inclined to believe the latter but you won't admit it because you'd rather be a fan of Konan and a Kishimoto apologist.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
So Ebisu was beaten by the jutsu that takes out Kages right?
Nah, it counts as twice when Kakuzu can resurrect himself by using one heart. Kakashi killed him at first, but ultimately failed because of the resurrection.

Oh right, Shikamaru wasn't a genin. facepalm
Both Neji and Chouji were pretty much f***ed until PIS set in for the former, and self-sacrifice for the other.
I'm talking about after Minato saved his ass. 😛 Yeah, Nagato was very low on chakra (though enough to make the CT bigger), but Naruto had only one shot of Sage mode that was wasted.

Somewhere over the Rainbow? I already told you he's unpredictable. 😛

Nope, you confused Minato for Hinata, which is why I saved you the time, and went with Hinata. 😛
Nah bro. Sasuke's too good for her. Besides, she likes bad boys.

Yep. But it was a genin who used it, so he sucks.
He can resurrect himself. But he never got the chance to when Naruto fought him because Naruto took out his heats. He was legit killed by a Jonin though. awesome

Yep. 😛
They at least weren't dead like the Sound 4. awesome
Sure Naruto won after being saved 3 times and Nagato being on the verge of collapsing. Doesn't really count though since he lost prior to that.

Konoha?

Nah, I'm like Minato. I have shades of Sasuke and Hinata but I do have more in common with the coolest ninja evar. 😛
Which is why it won't work. We already concluded that Sasuke is the hero of this story remember? awesome

Originally posted by dadudemon
How about before all of that?

Like I've been saying or ages, now?

Why is that so hard for all of you to grasp? 😬

Additionally...why DIDN'T he port away when that massive ocean was opened up? I call more B.S.

The excused you guys cry about: But, but, but! The paper was so faaaaast, man! It was sooo faasssst!

That's just more bullshit and a giant bullshit counter.

He was more than fast enough against Minato. So why is he all of a sudden slowed waaaaay the **** down against Konan so she can make her paper travel quite a huge distance to him?

But...but...but....her paper travels soooo fast, man!

More bullshit. It's not that fast because Jiraiya only had to do two rolls, in base form, to get out of the way of her "paper shuriken" attack. Those pieces of paper were NOT in shuriken mode.

What now? HMMMM?

What ELSE you guys got?

More justifications for why Kishi wrote some shit to give Konan a last hurrah? I am not buying it. Stop being a Kishi apologetic and just face reality: he gimped Madara to the point of CIS and PIS occurring JUST to give us one last awesome fight form her because she was a fan favorite.

Why do you guys fight against something that is ginormously obvious? I mean...do you guys actually believe your own bullshit or do you secretly know what is obvious? I am inclined to believe the latter but you won't admit it because you'd rather be a fan of Konan and a Kishimoto apologist.

What are you talking about? o.O

He had a reason for being there. He needed her. Yeah, she'd have a trap and he knew that, but it's a calculated risk. He doesn't trust Kabuto to do it, Zetsu isn't a fighter, and Kisame is busy being dead. He has no choice but to do something about Konan himself.

Unless you really wanted the scene to play out like this:

Madara: Sup.
Konan: Hi.
Madara: Why did you betray me for Naruto?
Konan: Because he is the li-

*Madara teleports...and then comes back*

Konan: ???
Madara: Shit, thought you'd activate your trap.
Konan: Well no I was just-

*Madara teleports....and then comes back*

Konan:....explaining...
Madara: **** you. I started Akatsuki.
Konan: No it was Yah-

*Madara teleports and then comes back*

Madara: Damn it woman! Spring your trap already so I can-

*Konan blows him the **** up*

Edit: Ah I see. You're problem with the feat is that it makes Konan look good. Hahahaha....yeah, that's not much of an argument.

Oh and he never actually did anything impressive against Minato to indicate that he should be able to dodge those papers.

Part 2 Tenten- C+?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yep. But it was a genin who used it, so he sucks.
He can resurrect himself. But he never got the chance to when Naruto fought him because Naruto took out his heats. He was legit killed by a Jonin though. awesome

Yep. 😛
They at least weren't dead like the Sound 4. awesome
Sure Naruto won after being saved 3 times and Nagato being on the verge of collapsing. Doesn't really count though since he lost prior to that.

Konoha?

Nah, I'm like Minato. I have shades of Sasuke and Hinata but I do have more in common with the coolest ninja evar. 😛
Which is why it won't work. We already concluded that Sasuke is the hero of this story remember? awesome

What are you talking about? o.O

He had a reason for being there. He needed her. Yeah, she'd have a trap and he knew that, but it's a calculated risk. He doesn't trust Kabuto to do it, Zetsu isn't a fighter, and Kisame is busy being dead. He has no choice but to do something about Konan himself.

Unless you really wanted the scene to play out like this:

Madara: Sup.
Konan: Hi.
Madara: Why did you betray me for Naruto?
Konan: Because he is the li-

*Madara teleports...and then comes back*

Konan: ???
Madara: Shit, thought you'd activate your trap.
Konan: Well no I was just-

*Madara teleports....and then comes back*

Konan:....explaining...
Madara: **** you. I started Akatsuki.
Konan: No it was Yah-

*Madara teleports and then comes back*

Madara: Damn it woman! Spring your trap already so I can-

*Konan blows him the **** up*

Q99 and I have been over this point already.

You have anything new to bring to the discussion?

Edit - And your lame-ass troll scenario is just that: a lame ass troll scenario. You're obviously pissed that you missed the entire point.

He would port away..then port back right behind her and impale her...then grab her by the throat and genjutsu her....you know...like he did. 😬

Derpy derpy dooo!

Originally posted by dadudemon
How about before all of that?

Like I've been saying or ages, now?

Why is that so hard for all of you to grasp? 😬

Additionally...why DIDN'T he port away when that massive ocean was opened up? I call more B.S.

The excused you guys cry about: But, but, but! The paper was so faaaaast, man! It was sooo faasssst!

That's just more bullshit and a giant bullshit counter.

He was more than fast enough against Minato. So why is he all of a sudden slowed waaaaay the **** down against Konan so she can make her paper travel quite a huge distance to him?

But...but...but....her paper travels soooo fast, man!

More bullshit. It's not that fast because Jiraiya only had to do two rolls, in base form, to get out of the way of her "paper shuriken" attack. Those pieces of paper were NOT in shuriken mode.

What now? HMMMM?

What ELSE you guys got?

More justifications for why Kishi wrote some shit to give Konan a last hurrah? I am not buying it. Stop being a Kishi apologetic and just face reality: he gimped Madara to the point of CIS and PIS occurring JUST to give us one last awesome fight form her because she was a fan favorite.

Why do you guys fight against something that is ginormously obvious? I mean...do you guys actually believe your own bullshit or do you secretly know what is obvious? I am inclined to believe the latter but you won't admit it because you'd rather be a fan of Konan and a Kishimoto apologist.

I don't recall his teleporting having had any major speed feats against Minato that would make this paper thing unreasonable. In any case, i'm guessing that the "slow" version of teleporting is here to stay.