The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well yeah, Naruto could very well have died before trying to master that Kyuubi. But that is a calculated risk with any Thanatos Gambit, including Itachi's and L's. Though considering the Kyuubi saved Naruto from dying multiple of times, it wasn't too big a problem.

"Have faith in him. He is our son!" sounds like putting faith in lineage to me.

Simple: It won't happen on the same day. Rest in between then. Sasuke and Naruto fight, Madara restrains both after the battle regardless of outcome, and begins sealing Naruto. Sasuke is conflicted and crap and then decides to help Naruto and they team up on him.

I wasn't really talking about death though, well, not entirely. I was talking about mastery & strength.
Kyuubi saving him is irrelevant since Minato never predicted that. What's funny though, is that the Kyuubi has only half of its chakra thanks to Minato, who did that because he couldn't seal all of its chakra away. And if the Kyuubi really does consist of half of the Juubi's chakra...

That's what any (sane) parent would say about their kid. Besides, lineage did not really determine Naruto's personality while growing up.

Sasuke doesn't have the White snake anymore. He's going to need at least a day to recuperate from that fight if it's catastrophic. I doubt Madara would eat steak, smoke and lounge around during that time. He doesn't seem the type. 😛

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Considering this was before Izanagi was probably conceived, it's phasing. 😛

Cause he was more concerned with stopping the actual bodies and not Kabuto. Besides, why would he need to figure it out when he could just bully Kabuto until he told him? awesome

Nah, Kishimoto probably conceived Izanagi around the same time he conceived Susano'o. He's going for the major Shinto Gods. Izanami is around the corner.

Yeah, that was bawss. Though he needed the Rinnegan to get the balls to bully Kabuto, but I like Madara, so I won't insult him. 😛

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No purpose is grander than Sasuke. Madara didn't really need to use Itachi for much.

He also needs his Paths of Pain. 😛

The World > Sasuke. vin You know this to be true. Ergo, Itachi came out on top. 😛

Pretty certain he doesn't give a shit about them. 😛

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It seems sudden but that's only because it is. Sasuke is sort of like Kisame(if the latter was handled right). His whole life has been lies. His brother lied to him, his village lied to him. Whenever he thinks about his time in Konoha he sees nothing but a lie that causes him incredible pain. He loved those times of his life and to consider them lies is awful. He can't stand it. He wants to kill everyone that lied to him. The only memories he thinks aren't lies are the happy ones spent with Itachi before the Coup.

At least how I see it.

I agree then.

So why would Sasuke come to this conclusion during the fight with the Kages, and not after he was nearly convinced of the truth? He had already decided to destroy Konoha, but he only snapped at the Kage Summit. The timing is what's off. Besides, rage-roid Sasuke is crappy and I don't want to talk about that crap anymore.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I wasn't really talking about death though, well, not entirely. I was talking about mastery & strength.
Kyuubi saving him is irrelevant since Minato never predicted that. What's funny though, is that the Kyuubi has only half of its chakra thanks to Minato, who did that because he couldn't seal all of its chakra away. And if the Kyuubi really does consist of half of the Juubi's chakra...

That's what any (sane) parent would say about their kid. Besides, lineage did not really determine Naruto's personality while growing up.

Well in that regard one could only have faith in Naruto. Clearly was not misplaced.
I know right? Means Minato screwed up Madara's plans without realizing it.

I wouldn't say that. Sorta like a whole nature vs nurture thing. Naruto very much acts like his mother. Which Minato would probably prefer.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke doesn't have the White snake anymore. He's going to need at least a day to recuperate from that fight if it's catastrophic. I doubt Madara would eat steak, smoke and lounge around during that time. He doesn't seem the type. 😛

Of course not. He'd be busy sealing the Kyuubi while Sasuke is chilling.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nah, Kishimoto probably conceived Izanagi around the same time he conceived Susano'o. He's going for the major Shinto Gods. Izanami is around the corner.

Yeah, that was bawss. Though he needed the Rinnegan to get the balls to bully Kabuto, but I like Madara, so I won't insult him. 😛

Or maybe with Susano'o he just wanted to complete the whole 3 Shinto Sibling thing. 😛

Not really. He always had though just nothing to deal with the coffin.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
So why would Sasuke come to this conclusion during the fight with the Kages, and not after he was nearly convinced of the truth? He had already decided to destroy Konoha, but he only snapped at the Kage Summit. The timing is what's off. Besides, rage-roid Sasuke is crappy and I don't want to talk about that crap anymore.

It's simple and I have Bleach(way early on) to thank for pointing it out here. Sasuke is inherently a good human being. Shown here. And I can prove that part of him has not changed by pointing at this. Sasuke didn't mean to do either things. His body just moved because he didn't want his ally to die.

This does not apply, however, when Sasuke is thinking about revenge. When revenge comes into play, Sasuke barely resembles a human. Danzo, the man responsible for the death of his clan, was at the Summit. Being so close to his target makes him going ballistic. There is proof for this. When he is like that, he doesn't care if it's friend or foe, he will kill them to get to his target. Very much like Kyuubi Naruto. 😛

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. The stories thematic heart has always been focused upon Naruto.

Obviously. But that doesn't make Naruto the hero. What it makes him is a theme. Know what that theme is? =D

Peace and making friends and shit.

Sasuke is not the main character. No matter how much we joke.

Originally posted by Q99
The stories' thematic heart centers around Jiraiya, and his experiences being echoed through his students and via his stories.

Jaraiya doesn't enter the story for about a hundred chapters. Jaraiya is an expansion of the theme, but it exised before he was in the manga.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Peace and making friends and shit.

Sasuke is not the main character. No matter how much we joke.

Close but not how I'd put it.

Obviously. But he is the Hero of the story.

Also, I've come to realize one of the problems people have with Sasuke is a problem I have with Gaara. Over powered gingered ****.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It's simple and I have Bleach(way early on) to thank for pointing it out here. Sasuke is inherently a good human being. Shown here. And I can prove that part of him has not changed by pointing at this. Sasuke didn't mean to do either things. His body just moved because he didn't want his ally to die.

This does not apply, however, when Sasuke is thinking about revenge. When revenge comes into play, Sasuke barely resembles a human. Danzo, the man responsible for the death of his clan, was at the Summit. Being so close to his target makes him going ballistic. There is proof for this. When he is like that, he doesn't care if it's friend or foe, he will kill them to get to his target. Very much like Kyuubi Naruto. 😛

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
2. So I guess no one told you that he wanted Sasuke to defeat him and not be a total dick about it? Cause that's what he wanted. It was the last part that Itachi screwed up on.

No, what I said. Itachi accomplished his goal with Sasuke. He just didn't expect Sasuke to turn into an Emo b*tch about it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
3. Ah, but you said they were secretive about everything. They clearly were not.

Yeah, they were secretive about everything in the sense that when you say someone is secretive about everything, you don't mean that there is not one single aspect known about the person...you mean that they are very secret people.

In the case of Akatsuki, they are much more secretive about almost every last aspect. Splitting hairs for the point of a word game is really missing the point and it's a rather dishonest dialogue.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He certainly was. Which is why he tried to prevent him by telling everyone to treat Naruto nice. They didn't listen, not his fault. Not like he could make them from the grave.

He did not tell ANYONE to treat Naruto nicely. 😬

He couldn't.

He just expected Naruto to deal with it without any help. This is part of if not the main reason Naruto punched him when he saw him and Minato knew that.

BTW, the proper response is "SENJU FIRES!" That's why Minato gambled on it. It's a cop-out, but it's the real reason.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He stopped him from releasing the Kyuubi and set it up so Kushina could help him master it. Done quite a bit to help Naruto become who he is. In fact, apparently Naruto loves his parents so much that they are his two suns, so they're still helping him.

Wuuuuut?

"that they are his two suns"....

WTF does that even meeeean? lol

And, no, sorry, they don't get credit for anything.

Naruto did everything all on his own until 12. From there, it was team 7 and Iruka...and others that he himself forged bonds with.

His parents don't get jack credit for anything. They are poopoo heads.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Nah.

If it is, good. Means Kishi did it right.

It's fairly obvious that that is the way it will go down. I would NOT be surprised if after they defeat Madara...they stare at each other, cry a little but, then start making out (there will be fingers placed in butz, no doubt).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Ah, but you said he practiced like a madman for hours at a time. Which sounds more like Rock Lee than Itachi, who probably practiced, just not that much.

And you seem to think that Itachi didn't practice like a madman to reach the top? Even with natural genius abilities, Neji still practiced for hours like a madman.

It took one of if not the greatest genius in Naruto a year or 2 to get Rasengan correct. So it's not as though we don't have evidence for ultra geniuses practicing for hours upon hours. It's how they got there.

Even Naruto, with his cheater genius ways, still practices for hours upon hours.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Close but not how I'd put it.

Obviously. But he is the Hero of the story.

Also, I've come to realize one of the problems people have with Sasuke is a problem I have with Gaara. Over powered gingered ****.

You assume I care how you'd put it.

That would be a hard sell considering he's not a Hero or done anything heroic in a few hundred chapters. 😮

At least Gaara has evolved positively over time. Sasuke has just gotten worse with each appearance.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Can't comment on the 3 Treasures. Don't know their specifics.

Sure, but I doubt Itachi practised as hard as Sasuke did when he was 7. He was born with more natural talent than Sasuke was.

So do I. He's better than anyone bar Minato IMO.

Sure. They're not the best in every single category. Other genii eclipse them in certain areas. On the whole though, Naruto and the others don't come close to those two.

We can be sure that Itachi had to practice. He had to release Susano'o to integrate the treasures. Then he had to know how to use them which would have required he figure that out ... which is practice. He was also proficient with Susano'o...beyond what Sasuke was for several chapters. That tells us that it does take a bit of effort, even for geniuses, to workout how to use it properly.

I disagree: I think Itachi practiced just as hard if not harder.

Sometimes, I think Itachi is better than Minato...but Minato has a better track record, so it is hard for us to say.

I disagree: Naruto has a genius for trickery in combat. He is top tier there. Naruto, by far, is the biggest genius when it comes to quickly mastering ultra difficult techniques. He surpasses his father in that category.

Naruto is a big idiot in other ways, though...which Kish had to write in to make up for his absurd awesomeness in other areas. If that makes sense. You can't over power your main character too much. There has to be some sort of resistance.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well in that regard one could only have faith in Naruto. Clearly was not misplaced.
I know right? Means Minato screwed up Madara's plans without realizing it.

I wouldn't say that. Sorta like a whole nature vs nurture thing. Naruto very much acts like his mother. Which Minato would probably prefer.

Right, but it was blind faith and dependent on a whole lot of luck, vastly moreso than in Itachi's case.
Indeed. Of course, it was unintentional, so we can't really give full credit to him. 😛

Once he got over his loneliness thanks to Iruka & Sasuke. Before that, he was almost like Gaara and current Sasuke, without the power to kill people.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Of course not. He'd be busy sealing the Kyuubi while Sasuke is chilling.

But then Naruto would be next to useless. If Madara's sealing the Kyuubi, Sasuke will just steal it from under his nose awesome

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Or maybe with Susano'o he just wanted to complete the whole 3 Shinto Sibling thing. 😛

Not really. He always had though just nothing to deal with the coffin.

Nah, those Shinto siblings' parents are Izanagi & Izanami. 😛 Besides, he brought out Kagutsuchi as well, and he's made direct references to Raijin & Fuujin through Sasuke & Naruto respectively. Then there's the Yamato no Orochi with Orochimaru.

Sorry, I cannot understand this.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It's simple and I have Bleach(way early on) to thank for pointing it out here. Sasuke is inherently a good human being. Shown here. And I can prove that part of him has not changed by pointing at this. Sasuke didn't mean to do either things. His body just moved because he didn't want his ally to die.

This does not apply, however, when Sasuke is thinking about revenge. When revenge comes into play, Sasuke barely resembles a human. Danzo, the man responsible for the death of his clan, was at the Summit. Being so close to his target makes him going ballistic. There is proof for this. When he is like that, he doesn't care if it's friend or foe, he will kill them to get to his target. Very much like Kyuubi Naruto. 😛

Him going berserk at the sight of his target, specifically, Itachi, only applies to Part 1. Even though the mere sight of Itachi still pissed him off in Part 2, we clearly saw that he could think straight and would not go berserk in Itachi's presence. And he has hated Itachi for a lot longer than he has hated Danzou or everyone affiliated with Konoha.
But whatever, I already said I won't discuss this crap anymore.

Originally posted by dadudemon
We can be sure that Itachi had to practice. He had to release Susano'o to integrate the treasures. Then he had to know how to use them which would have required he figure that out ... which is practice. He was also proficient with Susano'o...beyond what Sasuke was for several chapters. That tells us that it does take a bit of effort, even for geniuses, to workout how to use it properly.

I disagree: I think Itachi practiced just as hard if not harder.

Sometimes, I think Itachi is better than Minato...but Minato has a better track record, so it is hard for us to say.

I disagree: Naruto has a genius for trickery in combat. He is top tier there. Naruto, by far, is the biggest genius when it comes to quickly mastering ultra difficult techniques. He surpasses his father in that category.

Naruto is a big idiot in other ways, though...which Kish had to write in to make up for his absurd awesomeness in other areas. If that makes sense. You can't over power your main character too much. There has to be some sort of resistance.

If by practice, you mean practice while in battle like Sasuke did, then I'd agree. Sasuke's MS techs and Kakashi's Kamui advanced with a few uses, but I doubt any MS user would use such techs when they are just training. I'm fairly certain Itachi used Susano'o against Orochimaru when the latter tried to steal his body, and he did not have the Treasures then. And again, we don't know the deal with the Treasures and why they're on Susano'o specifically if they're supposed to be one-of-a-kind items.

I disagree too. I don't think he practised as much as Sasuke used to.

Meh, I just think they're on the same level for the most part.

Okay. This negates what I said how exactly? Which is that Naruto, much like Sasuke, is better than them in some categories.

The idiocy came first, then the absurd awesomeness, so Kishi had to strengthen his main character, not hold him back. We got a glimpse of his 'jutsu mastery genius' in the first chapter, but then we had to wait until the Rasengan arc.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well somewhat but I think there is another factor too. I think using Susanoo has corrupted him to an even greater extent He is corrupt to the core nowadays and the more corrupt he is, the stronger and more foul his susanoo becomes. I wonder how Itachi avoided such a fate.

I don't think using Susano'o corrupted him. His increasing corruption was displayed in the advancement of Susano'o which is due to Susano'o drawing out his cold chakra.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, what I said. Itachi accomplished his goal with Sasuke. He just didn't expect Sasuke to turn into an Emo b*tch about it.

In the case of Akatsuki, they are much more secretive about almost every last aspect. Splitting hairs for the point of a word game is really missing the point and it's a rather dishonest dialogue.

Then he is an idiot. 🙂

When I think secret organization, I do not think of an organization of bounty hunters that will work for you. 😮

Originally posted by dadudemon
He did not tell ANYONE to treat Naruto nicely. 😬

He just expected Naruto to deal with it without any help. This is part of if not the main reason Naruto punched him when he saw him and Minato knew that.

Viewing him as a hero sounds like wanting people to treat him nice.

Was he wrong to expect that? And did Naruto never have help? No and no.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wuuuuut?

"that they are his two suns"....

WTF does that even meeeean? lol

It means they're his true power.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, no, sorry, they don't get credit for anything.

Naruto did everything all on his own until 12. From there, it was team 7 and Iruka...and others that he himself forged bonds with.

His parents don't get jack credit for anything. They are poopoo heads.

Except saving his life?

I know?

Naruto himself gives them credit. And without them, he would not have mastered Kyuubi mode. Fact.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And you seem to think that Itachi didn't practice like a madman to reach the top? Even with natural genius abilities, Neji still practiced for hours like a madman.

It took one of if not the greatest genius in Naruto a year or 2 to get Rasengan correct. So it's not as though we don't have evidence for ultra geniuses practicing for hours upon hours. It's how they got there.

Even Naruto, with his cheater genius ways, still practices for hours upon hours.

Obviously. Neji is a special case. He was learning techniques that should only be used by Main House family. Meaning he had to discover them on his own. Itachi, I guess, needed only to learn how to use MS. Which doesn't seem to require that much practice.

Said genius had things to do in the mean time. He did not practice everyday for 3 years. And of course, there is a difference between learning something and creating it.

Weeks actually. But he only really practices when he has nothing to do. Of course now he doesn't even really have to practice. He can just do shit all of a sudden.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Right, but it was blind faith and dependent on a whole lot of luck, vastly moreso than in Itachi's case.
Indeed. Of course, it was unintentional, so we can't really give full credit to him. 😛

Once he got over his loneliness thanks to Iruka & Sasuke. Before that, he was almost like Gaara and current Sasuke, without the power to kill people.

But then Naruto would be next to useless. If Madara's sealing the Kyuubi, Sasuke will just steal it from under his nose awesome

Sorry, I cannot understand this.

And yet, it worked out much better. vin
Or was it?

Contrary to what the manga wants me to believe, he was never that much like Gaara or Sasuke. The latter two never painted monuments for sheer shits and giggles. Naruto was born tougher than those two, which is really why he isn't that emo. Gets it from his mommy.

Madara doesn't get all of it, allowing Naruto to have some of the Kyuubi's chakra left.

Madara has always had the balls to deal with Kabuto.

What are you all arguing now?

We're arguing who loves you the most. It's me. <3

Lies.

Its clearly me.

I'm not convinced.

Shut up ho.

How can you say you love me, if you won't even eat my poop?

I'd gargle that shit for you baby.

I'd sell it to the highest bidder.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Then he is an idiot. 🙂

When I think secret organization, I do not think of an organization of bounty hunters that will work for you. 😮

I'll take that: he's definitely a social idiot. 😄

When I think of a secretive criminal organziation, I think of an organization that has a front that allows them to interface with the public (ever heard of money laundering? Something like that...but more honest).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Viewing him as a hero sounds like wanting people to treat him nice.

Was he wrong to expect that? And did Naruto never have help? No and no.

That's awesome that the 3rd can make an educated guess on the 4th's intentions with Naruto (he knew him really well). But, I said this: "He did not tell ANYONE to treat Naruto nicely."

It's a shame that Naruto was literally an outcast. So much so that he acted out in delinquency (and only Sarutobi loved him sincerely until Iruka). I almost feel really bad about Naruto. 🙁

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It means they're his true power.

Oh, you're talking about the "love" Naruto and Bee have in their hearts.

When you said "his two suns", that doesn't make sense, still, in context of the manga. It would be "their two suns" with a reference to Bee having occured at some point before that statement.

In other words, you suck. uhuh

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Except saving his life?

I know?

Naruto himself gives them credit. And without them, he would not have mastered Kyuubi mode. Fact.

Saving his life?

Maybe. Keep in mind that keeping Naruto around when Minato could have EASILY teleported Naruto to a safe place and back. It's a false dilema you have created, sir. 🙂

It's too late: by the time Naruto is 17, mastering Kyuubi mode doesn't matter. That's what you're missing.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Obviously. Neji is a special case. He was learning techniques that should only be used by Main House family. Meaning he had to discover them on his own. Itachi, I guess, needed only to learn how to use MS. Which doesn't seem to require that much practice.

Said genius had things to do in the mean time. He did not practice everyday for 3 years. And of course, there is a difference between learning something and creating it.

Weeks actually. But he only really practices when he has nothing to do. Of course now he doesn't even really have to practice. He can just do shit all of a sudden.

This is why Neji is considered the genius of his generation. Neji is a pretty dang good genius if you consider that he independently created/discovered the main branch secret techs. That's absurd. It's like Naruto seeing the rasengan and doing it on his own without help (absurd). (Pwned about Minato doing that. But Minato is smarter, by far, than Naruto).

You say that, but it actually does not matter to my point.

Spread Naruto's training out over 2 hours a day. That's still just a few months compared to Minato. Naruto also figured out a forbidden Jounin technique on his own by reading a piece of paper. In other words, your response actually doesn't do anything to counter what I said. Naruto also had to figure out his rasenshuriken stuff.

No, hours and hours, what I said. Playing word games is not going to fly. 2 weeks or rasengan. Maybe a week or 2 for sage mode. A few hours for shadow clones. Maybe a week for rasenshuriken (but, technically, that was years of effort). Less than a week for kyuubi mode.

etc.

Prove me wrong, please, with some evidence.