Originally posted by Nephthys
If both of the are Madara then that would explain why Tobi considers himself 'less' than he used to be. He must of done something similar to Muu and split himself in two. Half of him actually dies and half survives.
That would be a good theory to keep him as Madara, but I have suspected for a while that he's a different character since the beginning.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelSpoiler:
He is way too old to have been around during Nagato Uzumaki's lifetime. So either he didn't die at the VoE(and he is in the armor and everything from the time) or he had an apprentice named Nagato, who had the Rinnegan and sharingan, i.e Tobi. I say apprentice because the Kyuubi recognized him and there are so few people the Kyuubi should recognize.If this is right, no brainer what the Sages real name probably was.
Indeed. Awesome.
Spoiler:
Also, I'm digging Madara's look. One shot and you can peg his character really easily.Madara, please kill Gaara and all his sueness.
Spoiler:
If this other Nagato had the Rinnegan, everyone in Konoha would have known about it. And it would make little sense for him to give up a doujutsu that is > Sharingan, to a kid in Amegakure.
Other than that, it could be the case.
But meh, next chapter should clear things up a little on Real-Madara's end. After a reveal like this (even though it is one some of us were expecting), I'm glad Kishi isn't taking a break next week.
I still think Tobi's either Madara in some form, or maybe even Izuna with Madara's right eye and Hashirama's power.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixSpoiler:
If this other Nagato had the Rinnegan, everyone in Konoha would have known about it. And it would make little sense for him to give up a doujutsu that is > Sharingan, to a kid in Amegakure.
Other than that, it could be the case.But meh, next chapter should clear things up a little on Real-Madara's end. After a reveal like this (even though it is one some of us were expecting), I'm glad Kishi isn't taking a break next week.
I still think Tobi's either Madara in some form, or maybe even Izuna with Madara's right eye and Hashirama's power.
Spoiler:
Why would they? Having a rinnegan doesn't mean celebrity. Nagato Uzumaki was a regular unknown. And of course it would make little sense unless there was a reason: I.e, wanting Nagato to kill himself to revive someone or something. Tobi was planning for such a scenario.
Hopefully but I don't it. Have to watch Madara kick some ass first. Will be awesome! =D
I do not. But I think he is an apprentice of Madara probably.
1. Stop using spoilers, guys.
2. I called it a loooooong time ago that Madara was the one in the casket. I CALLED THAT! (I'm going to search for and find that post).
3....read below...
Originally posted by Nephthys
If both of the are Madara then that would explain why Tobi considers himself 'less' than he used to be. He must of done something similar to Muu and split himself in two. Half of him actually dies and half survives.
Best explanation, yet. Makes perfect sense and this is what I was counting on.
It's possible he created a "tree clone" after his fight with Madara and copied his mind.
Now Madara will absorb the clone he made and then have uber powers...or something.
I dunno.
But we finally get to see how powerful the First's "equal" actually was. The first and Madara were supposed to be the two strongest ninja during their generation. THE two strongest ninja. They are still stronger than pretty much everyone else that came afterwards.
I'll be back with my post where I said the one in the casket was Madara. 😄
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelSpoiler:
Why would they? Having a rinnegan doesn't mean celebrity. Nagato Uzumaki was a regular unknown. And of course it would make little sense unless there was a reason: I.e, wanting Nagato to kill himself to revive someone or something. Tobi was planning for such a scenario.Hopefully but I don't it. Have to watch Madara kick some ass first. Will be awesome! =D
I do not. But I think he is an apprentice of Madara probably.
You mean other than the fact that an Uchiha was born with the greatest doujutsu that the Uchiha themselves knew about and belonged to a person they revered?
Nagato was an unknown because he was in Akatsuki.
Eh, Rinne Tensei no jutsu does not kill the user. Nagato only died because he was low on chakra.
I know eh? Naruto's also out of Kyuubi chakra, but I wonder if Madara could shut it down.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Best explanation, yet. Makes perfect sense and this is what I was counting on.It's possible he created a "tree clone" after his fight with Madara and copied his mind.
Now Madara will absorb the clone he made and then have uber powers...or something.
Thanks. 😍
But if thats the case then why did he shit his pants when Kabuto revealed him? If I had to guess then it might be that the Madara in the coffin has the same intangibility as Tobi (I think we should call him Tobi until we have more info to prevent confusion). An immortal version of himself who can nullify his intangibilty? Thats a very real threat to him. And that would explain why he went after the Rinnangan, to give himself an edge.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You mean other than the fact that an Uchiha was born with the greatest doujutsu that the Uchiha themselves knew about and belonged to a person they revered?
Nagato was an unknown because he was in Akatsuki.
Eh, Rinne Tensei no jutsu does not kill the user. Nagato only died because he was low on chakra.
Of course you're assuming the Uchiha would know about him. They wouldn't.
No, Nagato was unknown because he was born in bum-**** nowhere to a pair of nobodies. Tobi is likely a similar story. But thanks to this extra bit of thinking, I think I got it:
Spoiler:
Tobi is Madara's son.
My verdict:
1. The Nagato he's talking about is the Nagato we all know. Madara still kept his old look when the Mizukage was under his power, so the time frame is not impossible at all. I doubt this Madara died back at the VotE, I think that's just a misguided assumption... likely the death occurred at a much later point and may even be related to whatever left the 3 tails wild.
2. Tobi is probably being honest about his identity. I think the two are split, and there's even a possible mechanism. As the sage used Izanagi to separate the Jyuubi into nine, so perhaps Madara used it to split himself into two.
I disagree. He is lying and has been lying for quite a bit. Why he rotated hair styles beats me but Madara is certainly clothed in the armor he fought Hashirama in, making me positive he had to have died in that battle.
The only way for them both to literally be Madara would be for Madara to have split his soul in two. Which is random.
That and....Tobi doesn't act like this Madara.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Of course you're assuming the Uchiha would know about him. They wouldn't.
No, Nagato was unknown because he was born in bum-**** nowhere to a pair of nobodies. Tobi is likely a similar story. But thanks to this extra bit of thinking, I think I got it:Spoiler:
Tobi is Madara's son.
Or they didn't know about him, because he never existed in the first place.
No, he was an unknown because he was in Akatsuki for most of his Shinobi life.
So Tobi was born in bum-**** to a nobody, who happens to be Madara Uchiha.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Or they didn't know about him, because he never existed in the first place.
No, he was an unknown because he was in Akatsuki for most of his Shinobi life.
So Tobi was born in bum-**** to a nobody, which happens to be Konoha & Madara Uchiha respectively.
So you're assuming Madara split his soul in two, somehow knows who Nagato is despite there being absolutely no way for him to know that much less affect his life.
No, he was an unknown because he was a child of war. It wasn't until he joined Akatsuki that he got any fame whatsoever actually. Remember, Akatsuki is far different now than originally.
Uh-huh. See....I think Madara had him before attacking Konoha. I do not think the event happened the day after Madara was kicked out. So of course there aren't going to be records of him if that is the case.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I disagree. He is lying and has been lying for quite a bit. Why he rotated hair styles beats me but Madara is certainly clothed in the armor he fought Hashirama in, making me positive he had to have died in that battle.The only way for them both to literally be Madara would be for Madara to have split his soul in two. Which is random.
That and....Tobi doesn't act like this Madara.
Why not split the soul? I just showed precedent for it.
Well yeah, the splits are probably very different, just like the 9 biju are different.
I assume he does that to remain in disguise. And wouldn't it?
You showed precedent for the Sage doing it. Not Madara. Remember, for this theory to be correct, Madara would be on the verge of death after the battle with Hashirama, used his cells in conjunction with the sharingan on the fly, and then created a brand new being out of his own soul. He would have to do this on the fly while dying.
Their powers are different. They themselves don't seem very different. Feral animals except for Hachibi and Kyuubi, cause they could talk. And all of them rampage, except for Hachibi, who was domesticated.
And this theory does not explain how the newly revived Madara would know who Nagato was, considering he was dead before Nagato, heck maybe even Nagato's parents, were born. If he didn't die at the VoE, that means he died in the intervening time but how would that happen? You mentioned it being connected to the Sanbi but....how would that work? If Madara died during the release of the Sanbi or whatever, they'd surely know it was Madara unless he didn't leave a body behind. He would also have to be wearing his favorite armor that day for no particular reason.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So you're assuming Madara split his soul in two, somehow knows who Nagato is despite there being absolutely no way for him to know that much less affect his life.
No, he was an unknown because he was a child of war. It wasn't until he joined Akatsuki that he got any fame whatsoever actually. Remember, Akatsuki is far different now than originally.
Uh-huh. See....I think Madara had him before attacking Konoha. I do not think the event happened the day after Madara was kicked out. So of course there aren't going to be records of him if that is the case.
No, I'm assuming that Tobi is Madara somehow, or is Izuna. How exactly he could be Madara, I do not know. We've seen body stealing, body splitting from Muu, chakra splitting, mind-control etc. Tobi himself seems like he's an artificial creation, much like Zetsu. He's regrown his arm inside a structure.
Nagato has control over Life and Death.
Right, and even in Ame-Akatsuki, few enemies knew about his Rinnegan. As a child of war, he couldn't control his usage of the Rinnegan, much less remember using it in the first place.
And the Kyuubi would happen to recognize a withered old man that happened to be a baby when it was last free. Or did this Nagato Uchiha unlock the Sharingan when he was a toddler?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No, I'm assuming that Tobi is Madara somehow, or is Izuna. How exactly he could be Madara, I do not know. We've seen body stealing, body splitting from Muu, chakra splitting, mind-control etc. Tobi himself seems like he's an artificial creation, much like Zetsu. He's regrown his arm inside a structure.
Nagato has control over Life and Death.Right, and even in Ame-Akatsuki, few enemies knew about his Rinnegan. As a child of war, he couldn't control his usage of the Rinnegan, much less remember using it in the first place.
And the Kyuubi would happen to recognize a withered old man that happened to be a baby when it was last free. Or did this Nagato Uchiha unlock the Sharingan when he was a toddler?
So you're assuming Edo Tensei got the wrong guy? Databook says Izuna is dead. Whether or not that is true is arguable but for the time being we can't say much against it. Tobi can do that because of the cells he has. We know that.
What's your point? That he brought Madara back to have a little chat and the back to the afterlife he goes?
They saw it. The main reason people doubt the Rinnegan is because, well, they think it is a myth. And?
He'd recognize the chakra. Considering his dad had EMS at the time(and I can assume EMS is connected to Rinnegan for all the random assumptions going on here), I don't see why not.
You just want him to be Madara. But he simply isn't. 😛