The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I assume he does that to remain in disguise. And wouldn't it?

You showed precedent for the Sage doing it. Not Madara. Remember, for this theory to be correct, Madara would be on the verge of death after the battle with Hashirama, used his cells in conjunction with the sharingan on the fly, and then created a brand new being out of his own soul. He would have to do this on the fly while dying.

Their powers are different. They themselves don't seem very different. Feral animals except for Hachibi and Kyuubi, cause they could talk. And all of them rampage, except for Hachibi, who was domesticated.

And this theory does not explain how the newly revived Madara would know who Nagato was, considering he was dead before Nagato, heck maybe even Nagato's parents, were born. If he didn't die at the VoE, that means he died in the intervening time but how would that happen? You mentioned it being connected to the Sanbi but....how would that work? If Madara died during the release of the Sanbi or whatever, they'd surely know it was Madara unless he didn't leave a body behind. He would also have to be wearing his favorite armor that day for no particular reason.

Uchiha Madara escaped the VotE alive, but steals DNA. I don't know how he managed to survive, maybe he figured out Izanagi "on the fly" like you said, or maybe it was some unknown justu, or they simply mistook him for dead. He went out on his own, and under some unknown scenario was compelled to divide himself into two. This happened at an unknown point, but probably not that recently. These two existed for a span, and then this version died off some time after Nagato became involved in their plans. Meanwhile the other half lived on.

I think Madara was wearing his armor during the Sanbi incident. He is in shadows on the panel, but they have the same hair at least. He couldn't have been masked like Tobi (either version) because then Kisame would have recognized him right away. But Kisame only recognized him once he removed the mask.

Well if that is what you believe, I can't change it anyway. Just pointing out the flaws. As others are doing for me. 😮

But hell, at least you refrained from mentioning Obito. I can respect that.

Edit: Actually he appears to be wearing regular clothes.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c507/13.html

At least I didn't have to manifest my own new character who happens to have the same name as a current one, to explain this. I'd say mine beats yours by a mile.

Aren't you doing the same by creating another "Madara Uchiha" out of your ass? :/

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Aren't you doing the same by creating another "Madara Uchiha" out of your ass? :/

I have to admit, Obito has the same hair as Tobi.

Plus it would be a cool twist. 😄

And one of them is a liar who goes by multiple identities. But you are so dead set that he has to be Madara. As if the manga would explode if it weren't the case. Even though the manga dicks around constantly with his identity.

My explanation is merely meant to justify the real Madara's use of the name Nagato. It could be wrong but then again, look at this:

Nagato Uzumaki
Nagato Uchiha

Assuming that the Sages last name was Senju, since he chose the younger brother as his heir, his name would likely be

Nagato Senju.

ZOMG symbolism!!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And one of them is a liar who goes by multiple identities. But you are so dead set that he has to be Madara. As if the manga would explode if it weren't the case. Even though the manga dicks around constantly with his identity.

My explanation is merely meant to justify the real Madara's use of the name Nagato. It could be wrong but then again, look at this:

Nagato Uzumaki
Nagato Uchiha

Assuming that the Sages last name was Senju, since he chose the younger brother as his heir, his name would likely be

Nagato Senju.

ZOMG symbolism!!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So you're assuming Edo Tensei got the wrong guy? Databook says Izuna is dead. Whether or not that is true is arguable but for the time being we can't say much against it. Tobi can do that because of the cells he has. We know that.
What's your point? That he brought Madara back to have a little chat and the back to the afterlife he goes?

They saw it. The main reason people doubt the Rinnegan is because, well, they think it is a myth. And?

He'd recognize the chakra. Considering his dad had EMS at the time(and I can assume EMS is connected to Rinnegan for all the random assumptions going on here), I don't see why not.

You just want him to be Madara. But he simply isn't. 😛

Did I say the one summoned right now wasn't Madara? 😐
The Databook has been retconned a number of times before, and is outdated; hence, it has a shitload of shit.
That, or he chatted with Madara while he was dead. vin

Barely. Most that did see it died quickly.
Do the Uchiha think it is a myth?

The chakra and the MS wouldn't be an exact match.

Meh, we'll see in due time I suppose. Both of them being Madara is as plausible as Tobi being Madara's son/apprentice since we cannot predict what Kishi will write, and it could be neither of those. It could be that Tobi is Izuna. awesome

Here's another hole in your theory; if this Madara is a fraud, then how does he have Hashirama's DNA?

http://weareawesomeness.net/2010/04/13/naruto-manga-490-breakdown-theoretcal-chaos-and-a-new-debate/

Dammit Aura, now I'm reading theories. ¬_¬

Originally posted by King Kandy
But there is no Nagato Uchiha. You just made him up. So obviously, taking that as" evidence" is ridiculous. As far as that theory, how could the younger brother be the founder of the senju if there was another one before him, who was even more illustrious?

Of course. But then, saying Madara created another Madara on the verge of death is also reaching. And not likely in the least. Nor would it justify who this "Nagato" is.

Simple: He was chosen as a successor of the Sage. Meaning he got dear old dad's last name. Unless you can think of what successor means other than that.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Did I say the one summoned right now wasn't Madara? 😐
The Databook has been retconned a number of times before, and is outdated; hence, it has a shitload of shit.
That, or he chatted with Madara while he was dead. vin

Barely. Most that did see it died quickly.
Do the Uchiha think it is a myth?

The chakra and the MS wouldn't be an exact match.

Meh, we'll see in due time I suppose. Both of them being Madara is as plausible as Tobi being Madara's son/apprentice since we cannot predict what Kishi will write, and it could be neither of those. It could be that Tobi is Izuna. awesome

You're assuming Tobi is Madara. Who was brought back from the dead just now. So either it got it wrong or there are randomly two Madara's. I don't believe the later so I went with the former.
Has it been retconned in regards to Izuna(who should be dead anyway)? :3
That's possible but it makes me wonder why Madara though Nagato would bring him back. 😛

Except Hanzo. And Jiraiya. Both died of a delayed reaction.
I don't think the Uchiha really care whether it is or not. Neither Sasuke nor Itachi showed interest in anything Madara is talking about in regards to the Sage.

Assuming it was an MS. 😛

Nah, he is Kagami Uchiha. 😮

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Of course. But then, saying Madara created another Madara on the verge of death is also reaching. And not likely in the least. Nor would it justify who this "Nagato" is.

Simple: He was chosen as a successor of the Sage. Meaning he got dear old dad's last name. Unless you can think of what successor means other than that.

That would make the sage the founder of the Senju, not him. And the other brother would be a senju as well. It is clear the brothers were intended to be the first members of their respective clans. As far as the sage, I would be surprised if he even had a last name.

Firstly, Kabuto calls "Tobi" Uchiha Madara. There's nothing fishy about it and THIS is right after the big reveal in the Coffin:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-50180-6/naruto/chapter-490.html

Next, he says that he stole tissue from Hashirama in their (Hashirama and Madara's battle) battle.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-57917-9/naruto/chapter-512.html

So Kabuto knows quite well that Tobi is Madara.

This is why Nephthys explanation fits the best: Madara can split. That ALSO makes him, at the very most, only half as strong as his former self. That lends to the idea that Madara is a shell of his former self: he's only half (or even less) as strong as his prime.

Additionally, Madara, when revived, suspected Nagato's resurrection technique (I think) but found out it was impure world resurrection. So the revived Madara (the original) was expecting to be revived eventually.

And now, for my post which predicted it was Madara:

(Could not find it. In fact, I could not find any of my posts that commented on that chapter. weep I searched for an hour and could not find a SINGLE post on that chapter from me...despite the fact that we argued about who was in the coffin.)

Here is a Bonus post that made me laugh:

Originally posted by dadudemon
In order for Minato to get to study the chakra ball...it had to be in a controlled fashion. He did NOT have her chakra ability, did not have control over the kyuubi...etc. The only way he could have done that is on a date...which that date sounds damn sexy.

Minato: Yo, Kushina...show me your chakra balls.
Kushina: RAAAAAAAAWR!
Minato: 😮 😮 😮...................................................*skeeeeets*pained

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, it would. The Nagato is Nagato Uzumaki. Unless you invent a new character, this dates this ones death to fairly recently. So it has nothing to do with the VotE. Your only evidence otherwise is that he looks like he did back then. But we have no idea what Tobi looked like in the interval, so it proves nothing. He definitely did not look like he did right now.

That would make the sage the founder of the Senju, not him. And the other brother would be a senju as well. It is clear the brothers were intended to be the first members of their respective clans. As far as the sage, I would be surprised if he even had a last name.

If I have to explain why Madara knowing who Nagato Uzumaki is makes no sense and is impossible, I can. I don't want to because it should be obvious.

Then what was the successor inheriting? My guess was it worked in a Main/Branch family kind of thing and the older brother changed the last name.

Edit: Dew Demon, why do you think Madara called Kabuto a wise guy? I think it was because Kabuto was picking on him for his claimed identity and Madara didn't appreciate it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If I have to explain why Madara knowing who Nagato Uzumaki is makes no sense and is impossible, I can. I don't want to because it should be obvious.

Then what was the successor inheriting? My guess was it worked in a Main/Branch family kind of thing and the older brother changed the last name.

1. Yes, please do explain that as I think I have an idea but I am not sure. So, yes, please do.

2. We know which branch the Uchiha came from and the Senju. Madara was not the original or whatevs you guys are arguing about.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Remember, for this theory to be correct, Madara would be on the verge of death after the battle with Hashirama, used his cells in conjunction with the sharingan on the fly, and then created a brand new being out of his own soul. He would have to do this on the fly while dying.

Since Madara said that his entire plan was to get cells, it's far more likely that he set up a plan to "split himself" up to work towards his moon's eye plan.

So, him being on the verge of death after his fight with Hashirama does discredit the notion that Madara and Tobi are the same person...just split.

Kushina and Minato were both on the verge of death and yet they were able to do several awesome techs before dying.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And this theory does not explain how the newly revived Madara would know who Nagato was, considering he was dead before Nagato, heck maybe even Nagato's parents, were born. If he didn't die at the VoE, that means he died in the intervening time but how would that happen? You mentioned it being connected to the Sanbi but....how would that work? If Madara died during the release of the Sanbi or whatever, they'd surely know it was Madara unless he didn't leave a body behind. He would also have to be wearing his favorite armor that day for no particular reason.

It's possible that he died shortly after controlling that Kage???

But, I don't buy it. I want to know how he knows Nagato.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

You're assuming Tobi is Madara. Who was brought back from the dead just now. So either it got it wrong or there are randomly two Madara's. I don't believe the later so I went with the former.
Has it been retconned in regards to Izuna(who should be dead anyway)? :3
That's possible but it makes me wonder why Madara though Nagato would bring him back. 😛

Except Hanzo. And Jiraiya. Both died of a delayed reaction.
I don't think the Uchiha really care whether it is or not. Neither Sasuke nor Itachi showed interest in anything Madara is talking about in regards to the Sage.

Assuming it was an MS. 😛

Nah, he is Kagami Uchiha. 😮

While you are assuming that there is no possible way that there could be two Madaras. There were two Hashiramas (three if you want to count Yamato), and Kabuto is dangerously close to becoming a second Orochimaru. Heck, we have a second Manda.
Did ET get it wrong the first time it summoned Hashirama? If Kabuto becomes Orochimaru, would the first Orochimaru be a faker? Was the first Manda a fake?

I'm not saying it has been retconned with regards to Izuna. I'm saying that the possibility of the databook being retconned wrt Izuna is there; thus your citing of the databook does not completely refute my point. Considering the databook you cited itself states that Tobi is Madara, you have shot yourself in the foot.

Because Tobi told Nagato to? Nagato refused like a child, and when Madara assumed he had been resurrected by RT, he thought Nagato had grown a pair. 😛

Hanzo was a tighter lock than Saddam Hussein. Jiraiya told very few people about his former pupils.
Yet the Uchiha kept a tablet of the Sage.

Madara needed an MS to control the Kyuubi. How would his son control it without the Rinnegan and the MS?

Kagami is more likely than Nagato, but Izuna is more likely than Kagami. Ergo, Izuna > Kagami > Nagato. 😛

Originally posted by King Kandy
Here's another hole in your theory; if this Madara is a fraud, then how does he have Hashirama's DNA?

Originally posted by King Kandy

That would make the sage the founder of the Senju, not him. And the other brother would be a senju as well. It is clear the brothers were intended to be the first members of their respective clans. As far as the sage, I would be surprised if he even had a last name.

The Two Brothers were intended to be the ancestors of the Uchiha and the Senju, and a number of other clans. The Younger Brother gave rise to the Uzumaki and Senju clans, while the Older gave rise to the Uchiha clan, and presumably, the Hyuuga clan.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Kushina and Minato were both on the verge of death and yet they were able to do several awesome techs before dying.

Don't forget Itachi. He tanked a Lightning bolt, pwned Orochimaru, drove Sasuke into a corner, apologized, and finally sealed an Amaterasu in Sasuke.

Or if you want to really be an Itachibag like I am, Itachi was near-death for a couple of years. awesome