Alrighty, time for my big post.
First I'll address the issue of Tobi being Madara. I'm 90% sure he isn't. Obviously Madara being revived means he died at the Valley of the End. He is in the armor, gloves, everything. The only thing he lacks is the fan, which Tobi has. He looks the same as here baring the traditional Edo Tensei marks. That is a younger picture of him so he probably aged more but not that much. In short, it is impossible for this Madara to know the Nagato we know, barring Nagato talking to him from the afterlife.
Now we have the possibility of Tobi being Madara but a split portion of him that is weaker. Spliting was introduced but it was Muu's technique so the verdict is out on whether Madara would have something similar. But, that said, the two Mu look alike. Madara and Tobi...well, Tobi is clearly older, but he seems to lack certain traits Madara has. The best picture of Tobi we have is here. Silly as it sounds, he is missing the marks on the bridge of his nose and his eyebrows appear different than here. I'm not sparing any detail here, I'll nitpick everything.
Lastly there is the idea that Madara could have used Izanagi to split his soul in two. This is an idea that could work....but my main problem with it is this: Why wouldn't Madara use Izanagi instead to heal himself? Izanagi can escape death itself, that is the most basic function we've seen of it. Even Danzo, who had an incomplete version, could do that. This Madara is dead but if he had had Izanagi and could use it to such a degree, why did he choose to die?
Next there is the matter of it being Izuna. The eyebrow is certainly closer but again the nose marking don't appear. Closer, and certainly likely, but I dunno. Izuna would have been rendered blind after Madara transplanted his eyes so I don't see how he could find a body and identify it as Madara's. It certainly is more likely to me than Madara at this point though.
Later I'll talk more about it. Kagami Uchiha is a name I've heard mentioned...but we'll see.
Let's consider, who do we know from that era who's unaccounted for?
We know Hashirama and Tobirama, both known.
We know Madara and Izuna. Madara's location is known, Izuna is presumed dead.
We know Kakuzu and Muu and Onoki. Yea, it's not them.
Then we know... Mito Uzumaki!
Who no longer has the Kyuubi, but we know Uzumakis can survive that!
Mito is Tobi!
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
...?Madara had the EMS during his battle with Hashirama cause he'd already taken it from his brother. His eye was already completely EMS, had light, and all that jazz. If someone were to take that eyeball, the one with the EMS, why whould it go blind? o.O
Because it is the younger brother's (Izuna) eyes inside the eye sockets of the older one's (Madara's). It is only in Madara that it works as an EMS.
Unless of course you think that the two sets of eyeballs magically fuse together, which is untrue.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Nope.Chiyo and Kimimaro are not near Kakashi. Why would he be meaning them? 😮
Yep.
Gai said it, and he had just jumped in next to Kakashi.
They aren't close by, but they're in the same vicinity iirc.
Originally posted by dadudemonIt's a done deal. You are now Dee Monique. ✅
Agreed.
Sure. I just won't respond to it though, seeing as my online handle is DP. 😛
Also, in case it does turn out to be Izuna, I'll be the one claiming credit. w00t
One thing: If we assume Obito is Tobi, then does that make sense with the flashback of the Nine-tails attack? I mean, would Obito be old enough to have been the Tobi who attacked Minato?
I mean, Kakashi is only about 30, the attack happened a good 15 years ago, and since Obito is the same age (IIRC) Obito would have been only about 15 at the time.
Originally posted by Nephthys
One thing: If we assume Obito is Tobi, then does that make sense with the flashback of the Nine-tails attack? I mean, would Obito be old enough to have been the Tobi who attacked Minato?I mean, Kakashi is only about 30, the attack happened a good 15 years ago, and since Obito is the same age (IIRC) Obito would have been only about 15 at the time.
Christ, if Kishimoto does use Obito as Tobi, he'll be trolling us.
Originally posted by Q99
Let's consider, who do we know from that era who's unaccounted for?We know Hashirama and Tobirama, both known.
We know Madara and Izuna. Madara's location is known, Izuna is presumed dead.
We know Kakuzu and Muu and Onoki. Yea, it's not them.
Then we know... Mito Uzumaki!Who no longer has the Kyuubi, but we know Uzumakis can survive that!
Mito is Tobi!
But then she'd use the name Tomi instead of Tobi. Clearly, Mito isn't Tobi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
One thing: If we assume Obito is Tobi, then does that make sense with the flashback of the Nine-tails attack? I mean, would Obito be old enough to have been the Tobi who attacked Minato?I mean, Kakashi is only about 30, the attack happened a good 15 years ago, and since Obito is the same age (IIRC) Obito would have been only about 15 at the time.
Remember what I said about space-time jutsu?
Obito survived, trained in secret, then came back to the past to launch his plan.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Because it is the younger brother's (Izuna) eyes inside the eye sockets of the older one's (Madara's). It is only in Madara that it works as an EMS.Unless of course you think that the two sets of eyeballs magically fuse together, which is untrue.
Gai said it, and he had just jumped in next to Kakashi.
They aren't close by, but they're in the same vicinity iirc.
I was under the impression that they were magically fused. Given that Izuna's eyes would also see jack shit, I fail to see why moving them to different sockets would make them suddenly able to see. 😕
Then again, there is this. Still makes no freaking sense. Though this doesn't disprove he is an Uchiha, since the exchange has to come through clansmen.
WTF!? Why would you take someone's eyes if they were blind too!?
I did not care to recall who actually said it.
If they aren't close by, why would he mean them? 😕
Edit: As for the Mito thing, well, she had his cells alright. vin
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I was under the impression that they were magically fused. Given that Izuna's eyes would also see jack shit, I fail to see why moving them to different sockets would make them suddenly able to see. 😕Then again, there is this. Still makes no freaking sense. Though this doesn't disprove he is an Uchiha, since the exchange has to come through clansmen.
WTF!? Why would you take someone's eyes if they were blind too!?
I did not care to recall who actually said it.
If they aren't close by, why would he mean them? 😕Edit: As for the Mito thing, well, she had his cells alright. vin
Nope. You found the scan anyway.
Also, Izuna never became near-blind. Only Madara did. Of course, Itachi went near-blind, but Sasuke can see clearly now due to the transplant and has Night-Vision too awesome, so that's kind of moot.
Dunno.
Because they are powerful enemies? Meh, I just thought he was including the entire group, not just the Swordsmen, and I thought Chiyo and Kimimaro were there as well. They all seem to be near the same forest.
Kakashi was using Chidori on Zabuza's sword. Was ossum.
Edit: Yeah, and she was clearly in love with Madara, hence why she has his eye. But still, she'd call herself Tomi, not Tobi, so it cannot be Mito. vin
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Ummm.....well why can't Tobi just be Tobi since he isn't the true Madara.I also wonder why Orochimaru never bothered to summon Madara to fight Hiruzen. I mean he could've went the extra mile to find his DNA.
Why would he though? He wanted Hiruzen to face his former teachers, not just any uber-powerful shinobi.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Ummm.....well why can't Tobi just be Tobi since he isn't the true Madara.I also wonder why Orochimaru never bothered to summon Madara to fight Hiruzen. I mean he could've went the extra mile to find his DNA.
Getting DNA samples may be in some cases very tricky, and don't forget his plan was the first, second, and fourth Hokage.
Having only 2 Hokage was actually a result of his plan semi-backfiring, and even then it was a fairly overwhelming force. If he had known about the Deathgod thing and that Minato was unavailable he may have gotten someone else, but I think you can agree that wanting more after Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato are all in the same spot would just be overkill.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nope. You found the scan anyway.
Also, Izuna never became near-blind. Only Madara did. Of course, Itachi went near-blind, but Sasuke can see clearly now due to the transplant and has Night-Vision too awesome, so that's kind of moot.Dunno.
Because they are powerful enemies? Meh, I just thought he was including the entire group, not just the Swordsmen, and I thought Chiyo and Kimimaro were there as well. They all seem to be near the same forest.
Kakashi was using Chidori on Zabuza's sword. Was ossum.
...How do you know that? He used the MS too. Maybe not as much as Madara but then again, maybe he wasn't that big a ***** about it.
Your face.
Indeed it was.
http://forum.mangastream.com/showthread.php?t=3695
This guy believes he has undeniable proof that Tobi is really Obito.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
...How do you know that? He used the MS too. Maybe not as much as Madara but then again, maybe he wasn't that big a ***** about it.Your face.
Indeed it was.
http://forum.mangastream.com/showthread.php?t=3695
This guy believes he has undeniable proof that Tobi is really Obito.
Sure he did. As he wasn't in a bed and his eyes weren't grayed out like Sasuke's, I assume he used it less than Madara did.
is > your face? 😛
Suigetsu will be pissed. Pity he cannot take the sword from Kakashi.
You want try and to destroy it, or should I?
Sasuke's eyes only began being very grey until like the end of the Danzo fight. Izuna would not have spammed it that much. 😛
Probably.
Kakashi will just give it to him later.
Pfft, try? That argument is pitiful. Besides, I'm more interested in who Tobi is....hmmm, he is old but not too old cause his hair is black. So maybe younger than Sarutobi?
Kagami is an interesting idea. We know nothing about him but I suppose there is no harm mulling it around in my head.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Sasuke's eyes only began being very grey until like the end of the Danzo fight. Izuna would not have spammed it that much. 😛Probably.
Kakashi will just give it to him later.
Pfft, try? That argument is pitiful. Besides, I'm more interested in who Tobi is....hmmm, he is old but not too old cause his hair is black. So maybe younger than Sarutobi?
Kagami is an interesting idea. We know nothing about him but I suppose there is no harm mulling it around in my head.
Of course not. He was like Itachi. Madara was like Sasuke though.
Don't worry. There are some girls out there that would tell you your face is > mine. 😛
Why?
Well, even if you succeed, you would have tried. 😛
Eh, he could have dyed his hair. Besides, Mito had red hair even when she was an old hag. Clearly these 3 major clans are uber.
Meh, all this speculating if a waste anyway. Let's just wait until the next chapter.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Of course not. He was like Itachi. Madara was like Sasuke though.Why?
Eh, he could have dyed his hair. Besides, Mito had red hair even when she was an old hag. Clearly these 3 major clans are uber.
Meh, all this speculating if a waste anyway. Let's just wait until the next chapter.
Madara reminds me so much of Sasuke it is scary. Except Madara seems happier. Which supports my son theory. Sasuke isn't happy cause he never got laid. =D
Cause Suigetsu will remind him of Naruto. Remember, Suigetsu isn't a dick. What he wants to do is rather upstanding. I hope he succeeds. ^^
I do not believe in hair dye! That and it would be stupid. And I was comparing him to Sarutobi more than anyone else, who did lose hair color with age. 😛
Lol you think we'll figure out his identity from the next chapter? We'll probably get more hints but no answer. And it is fun to speculate! =D
Kagami Uchiha...the more I think on it the more I dislike the idea of it being him. He is the prime suspect but I have my doubts, considering what we know of him(from his one shot appearance), he didn't seem to hate the Konoha ninja that much.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Madara reminds me so much of Sasuke it is scary. Except Madara seems happier. Which supports my son theory. Sasuke isn't happy cause he never got laid. =DCause Suigetsu will remind him of Naruto. Remember, Suigetsu isn't a dick. What he wants to do is rather upstanding. I hope he succeeds. ^^
I do not believe in hair dye! That and it would be stupid. And I was comparing him to Sarutobi more than anyone else, who did lose hair color with age. 😛
Lol you think we'll figure out his identity from the next chapter? We'll probably get more hints but no answer. And it is fun to speculate! =D
Kagami Uchiha...the more I think on it the more I dislike the idea of it being him. He is the prime suspect but I have my doubts, considering what we know of him(from his one shot appearance), he didn't seem to hate the Konoha ninja that much.
Madara could get laid any time he wanted. He had the Mangekyou Sharingan, was fairly good looking, and loved both Hashirama & Mito. Plus he's badass. Sasuke is grumpy because the only person he wanted to make scream, is now dead. 😛
Suigetsu can be a dick though.
Tobi believes in hair dye because Uchiha men do not lose hair color.
Don't know. Madara might clear some things up though.
Why would Tobi be so interested in Sasuke? Maybe Tobi really is Fugaku. vin
I don't see Kagami being Tobi either.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Madara could get laid any time he wanted. He had the Mangekyou Sharingan, was fairly good looking, and loved both Hashirama & Mito. Plus he's badass. Sasuke is grumpy because the only person he wanted to make scream, is now dead. 😛Suigetsu can be a dick though.
Tobi believes in hair dye because Uchiha men do not lose hair color.
Don't know. Madara might clear some things up though.
Why would Tobi be so interested in Sasuke? Maybe Tobi really is Fugaku. vin
But whereas Sasuke looked normal, Madara...well, Raditz wants his hair back. 😮
Can. But he has matured. ^^
Fugaku did. 😮
Or just kick ass. I'd be content with that.
Oh snaps. Now that you mention it, the Uchiha weren't present during the Kyuubi's attack. Wonder why?