Originally posted by NemeBro
Arguing Mito lacks shadow clones is kind of asinine.One could argue she was unaware of the useage the mode had with shadow clones I guess.
I suppose I must be in the wrong thread.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, how silly of me to ask for feats. I forgot these ranks are just based on our own guesswork and fabrication. Here I thought it had something to do with what Kishi actually committed to paper.
There's "fabrication" and then there's pretty bog-standard ninja skills that almost every jonin has. That level of guesswork is used all the time because it's silly to insist everyone show the common powers in every area before we figure them in.
Known abilities are a shown mode that is insanely powerful and never seems to run out of chakra, and master seal work. For her to be 'merely' S-class, she needs to pretty much be a purely physical brick with little to no other abilities besides uber-sensor and regen, not even the ones that are ubiquitous, and even without that it's still arguably enough to have her in S+.
And that also assumes there's nothing that can be done with the seals and oodles of chakra, like uber-barriers or such.
We require proof of beyond normal abilities... but seriously, *just* the stuff that's common is plenty to kick her over the top.
We don't fabricate, but that includes not fabricating weaknesses and assuming lower-level abilities (when in this specific case, we actually have information that indicates the opposite, her KCM should be *stronger*). One needs to invent no abilities to put her at S+.
^ using the superhuman techniques he created from scratch right? 😐
dude b& the ten-tails to outer space and stole his power, the "final villain" got it's ass kicked in the prequel already
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shit, i know why shisui was known as the "shisui of the body flicker: since his eyes had lolworthy cooldown he had to resort to something instead of the uchiha clan's art of dojutsu spam, case in point sasuke forgoing advancing his other jutsu once his eyes became more potent, regardless of his every failing eyesight due to overuse. if shisui had danzou's cooldown he wouldn't care about the body flicker
shisui's eyesight was either crystal clear, or the wtf ten year recharge was also represented in his eyesight degradation as well, sort of a relative decrease in eyesight equal to other people with the mangekyo.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Well Killer Bee without even using his Biju is >>> Kyuubi naruto in strength.
Oh, you mean a giant moment of extremely incongruous writing?
So, do you have anything else except obvious PIS?
Originally posted by King Kandy
So for all your talk that a half-powered six tails is above hachibi, the current form must be practically a dust mite of that power. Even doubling it won't help.
That's what I thought: you have nothing.
Because if you're comparing a base-from B (no Hachibi cloak) to cloak mode when we see B's cloak form being used as an upgrade, your PIS comparison fails.
And, Kyuubi chakra mode Naruto never fought back against A. Just stayed on the defensive.
😄
Truth: Naruto was afraid of killing A because of the repercussions (argue against it, if you want....but then why did Naruto hold back against him?)
And that form is so powerful that just a handful of those forms completely turned the tide of the shinobi war. 😄
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, how silly of me to ask for feats. I forgot these ranks are just based on our own guesswork and fabrication.
Um...yeah. That's pretty much what it's based on for non-feated characters.
😐
But, I'd prefer to use the word "inference" instead of your insults.
I understand where KK is coming from. But there are a few things I think I need to address:
Bee, sans Hachibi, is not>>>>KCM Naruto. It's possible he *might* be stronger physically as Bee would obviously use taijutsu more and has a better build for it. But in terms of fighting, Naruto would throttle him.
Also, anyone else notice that the jinchuriki are all S or above? Sure, when Naruto and Gaara were kids and couldn't control it, they weren't S class threats(though one could certainly make an argument for Gaara at least) but once they grew up, they were immediately ranked high. Yugito and Yagura are both high up there, though in his case we don't know whether it was him or Tobi/Madara who was controlling him.
Being an adult Jinchuriki kunoichi suggests that Mito would more than likely be in S class. Knowing that she has KCM mode most certainly guarantee's it.
Anywho, I just felt like pointing out that the power of a host is certainly not to be taken lightly. What we know of Mito is that she had the same mode as Naruto, which is uber enough to change the tide of an entire war. Pretty nice.
How come we don't have Tobirama or Hashirama ranked? 😮
Hashirama is easily an S+.
I would like to say that Hashirama, not Minato, is actually the "gold standard" for what the absolute max someone can be before being SS-. He fought an EMS toting Madara Prime and won. He fought that version of Madara who brought THE most powerful Bijuu to the fight: Kyuubi.
So he has the best single fight feat in the series, IMO.
Madara is no slouch: one of the strongest fighters in the series (top 5, easily). In his current form, he very well may be the strongest (stronger than the sage, man!).
Anyway, Mito had the full powered Kyuubi for years. If we are supposed to believe she did absolutely nothing to make herself better BESIDES getting the Kyuubi chakra mode...
That's stupid.
"NOPE! Mito did NOTHING to make herself a better agent after obtaining Kyuubi mode. She has absolutely no other skills."
That still puts her down as an S, BTW. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
Hashirama is easily an S+.I would like to say that Hashirama, not Minato, is actually the "gold standard" for what the absolute max someone can be before being SS-. He fought an EMS toting Madara Prime and won. He fought that version of Madara who brought THE most powerful Bijuu to the fight: Kyuubi.
So he has the best single fight feat in the series, IMO.
Madara is no slouch: one of the strongest fighters in the series (top 5, easily). In his current form, he very well may be the strongest (stronger than the sage, man!).
Anyway, Mito had the full powered Kyuubi for years. If we are supposed to believe she did absolutely nothing to make herself better BESIDES getting the Kyuubi chakra mode...
That's stupid.
"NOPE! Mito did NOTHING to make herself a better agent after obtaining Kyuubi mode. She has absolutely no other skills."
That still puts her down as an S, BTW. 🙂
Good. You finally see that Hashirama > Minato.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I understand where KK is coming from. But there are a few things I think I need to address:Bee, sans Hachibi, is not>>>>KCM Naruto. It's possible he *might* be stronger physically as Bee would obviously use taijutsu more and has a better build for it. But in terms of fighting, Naruto would throttle him.
Also, anyone else notice that the jinchuriki are all S or above? Sure, when Naruto and Gaara were kids and couldn't control it, they weren't S class threats(though one could certainly make an argument for Gaara at least) but once they grew up, they were immediately ranked high. Yugito and Yagura are both high up there, though in his case we don't know whether it was him or Tobi/Madara who was controlling him.
Being an adult Jinchuriki kunoichi suggests that Mito would more than likely be in S class. Knowing that she has KCM mode most certainly guarantee's it.
Anywho, I just felt like pointing out that the power of a host is certainly not to be taken lightly. What we know of Mito is that she had the same mode as Naruto, which is uber enough to change the tide of an entire war. Pretty nice.
How come we don't have Tobirama or Hashirama ranked? 😮
Bee has Samehada though, which would aid him greatly against Naruto. awesome
She'd have the perks of KCM (evil-sensing, enhanced stats, a lot of chakra), but without knowing what exactly she could do (apart from uber seal jutsu usage such as the Yin seal apparently), there's no way to know if she'd be as effective with it as Naruto was.
And while she has the all of the Kyuubi's chakra at her disposal, I don't think that'd affect how long she could hold the transformation, seeing as the Kyuubi is taking Mito's chakra while she is transformed. There's really no way Mito has more chakra than the Kyuubi, ergo, her chakra would be the limiting factor. Its quantity is unknown so we can't say how she compares to Naruto.
Probably because the only battle they had was low-key when compared to the stuff we see now from S-ranked ninja. Or Q99 just forgot. 😛
S+ for both IMO. Hashirama had his Wood Jutsu, had one pretty uber genjutsu, and was equal to or slightly better than Madara w. EMS.
Tobirama used S/T jutsu, created & used Edo Tensei, was the best Water Jutsu user, and had excellent swordsmanship apparently.
SS for Hashirama w. Bijuu. awesome
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Good. You finally see that Hashirama > Minato.
It's because...of new feats from Madara, man.
Without him being as awesome as he (madara) is, there's no way I could consider Hashirama to be better than Minato.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
SS for Hashirama w. Bijuu. awesome
Actually, that's easily arguable as being correct.
Hashirama is knocking right on SS- territory considering Madara's recent feats with just EMS.
So, yeah...we could say he's an SS or even SS+ with the Kyuubi under his control. He'd show Madara how a proper invasion is supposed to be done.
In fact, anyone that can can fully control a full tailed best would have to be SS-: it's instant victory in almost all cases with one bijuu blast.
Only someone with the rinnigan would stand a chance by absorbing the blast OR transporting the blast. Minaot did not have the chakra to transport lots of blasts as doing the blast and the Kyuubi was quite a bit at once, for him. So we know that even power houses would quickly wear down if they had transportation jutsus. Only the rinnigan offers the best defense against multiple bijuu blasts.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
She'd have the perks of KCM (evil-sensing, enhanced stats, a lot of chakra), but without knowing what exactly she could do (apart from uber seal jutsu usage such as the Yin seal apparently), there's no way to know if she'd be as effective with it as Naruto was.And while she has the all of the Kyuubi's chakra at her disposal, I don't think that'd affect how long she could hold the transformation, seeing as the Kyuubi is taking Mito's chakra while she is transformed. There's really no way Mito has more chakra than the Kyuubi, ergo, her chakra would be the limiting factor. Its quantity is unknown so we can't say how she compares to Naruto.
Probably because the only battle they had was low-key when compared to the stuff we see now from S-ranked ninja. Or Q99 just forgot. 😛
I would normally agree if it didn't seem like most of Nartuo's mode is based off of instinct rather than training. We saw him training for the Bijuu ball but none of his other rasengan variations, meaning he probably made them on the fly. Super speed comes immediately, though needs some fine tuning. And as does the ability to use chakra claws, though again requires some fine tuning.
True but considering hosts seem to have quite a lot of chakra I don't see it as being much of a problem. She was a member of a clan related to the Senju and she had particularly strong chakras. So I'd think she could use it for a bit.
Thinking back on it, was the battle with Sarutobi *that* bad? 😛
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I would normally agree if it didn't seem like most of Nartuo's mode is based off of instinct rather than training. We saw him training for the Bijuu ball but none of his other rasengan variations, meaning he probably made them on the fly. Super speed comes immediately, though needs some fine tuning. And as does the ability to use chakra claws, though again requires some fine tuning.True but considering hosts seem to have quite a lot of chakra I don't see it as being much of a problem. She was a member of a clan related to the Senju and she had particularly strong chakras. So I'd think she could use it for a bit.
Thinking back on it, was the battle with Sarutobi *that* bad? 😛
In order: truth. And she was looking old when she gave up the Kyuubi to Kushina, so she had plenty of time to master the speed and versitility. Even if we consider Naruto the improvisational god of Naruto (he is), we'd have to assume Mito was a complete idiot to no develop anything. The reverence for her in the manga would disagree that she was a complete idiot.
That's correct: hosts have to have a lot of chakra in order to balance out/use the chakra from the tailed beasts. This is part of the selection process. Knowing that, both Mito and Kushina had to be BEASTS in order to warrant the placement of the Kyuubi in either of them: the Kyuubi was full power with those two. And, by the wording used about the Uzumaki, they had so much chakra that they lived quite a bit longer than other tribes. So, yeah...she was not only exceptional with chakra levels for a ninja, she was exceptional in a clan that was exceptional in order to justify her selection as a host.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I would normally agree if it didn't seem like most of Nartuo's mode is based off of instinct rather than training. We saw him training for the Bijuu ball but none of his other rasengan variations, meaning he probably made them on the fly. Super speed comes immediately, though needs some fine tuning. And as does the ability to use chakra claws, though again requires some fine tuning.True but considering hosts seem to have quite a lot of chakra I don't see it as being much of a problem. She was a member of a clan related to the Senju and she had particularly strong chakras. So I'd think she could use it for a bit.
Thinking back on it, was the battle with Sarutobi *that* bad? 😛
Making them on the fly is a skill on Naruto's part, not the transformation's. Using his chakra claws is the transformation's aspect of this.
Yeah, super speed comes immediately. She might not be as fast as Naruto though. 😛 He's pretty fast in base mode, and his transformation is kind of unique. He's drawing on pure Yang Chakra, and he's got the appearance of the Sage of the Six Paths.
No doubt Mito would be able to use chakra claws as well. Maybe she could use them for extending her sealing jutsu range and handseals? That's about the only novel use I can think of based on what we know about her.
Yep, I think she would be able to use it for a bit. But its duration wouldn't be double that of Naruto's, not unless her own chakra capacity was double that of Naruto's.
Nah, I liked it. What I mean by 'low-key' is that compared to recent battles between S-ranked characters, the Senju Bros. seemed to be A-rankers. Maybe the size of the arena was a factor, or Orochimaru was holding them back, or Kishi hadn't yet gotten used to drawing huge battles. Sasuke vs. Naruto at VotE was more indicative of a S-rank battle than the Hokage Battle was.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It's because...of new feats from Madara, man.Without him being as awesome as he (madara) is, there's no way I could consider Hashirama to be better than Minato.
True. We can no longer say that Tobi is Madara, so we cannot use him to compare the two.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, that's easily arguable as being correct.Hashirama is knocking right on SS- territory considering Madara's recent feats with just EMS.
So, yeah...we could say he's an SS or even SS+ with the Kyuubi under his control. He'd show Madara how a proper invasion is supposed to be done.
In fact, anyone that can can fully control a full tailed best would have to be SS-: it's instant victory in almost all cases with one bijuu blast.
Only someone with the rinnigan would stand a chance by absorbing the blast OR transporting the blast. Minaot did not have the chakra to transport lots of blasts as doing the blast and the Kyuubi was quite a bit at once, for him. So we know that even power houses would quickly wear down if they had transportation jutsus. Only the rinnigan offers the best defense against multiple bijuu blasts.
I know, I wasn't joking. Hashirama could control other bijuu and had a number of them under his control at one point. Instead of trading them, he could have used them to conquer the Shinobi world.
Or someone with Izanagi. Suigetsu also tanked a Hachibi Bijuu ball, but was KO'd. It's arguable that A's father could tank one as well.
Itachi's Susano'o is another candidate. And I also think Kisame's Giant Shark Missile could absorb the chakra in a Bijuu Ball.
But yes, very few people could stand up to a Bijuu ball. I can't think of anyone below S- that could stop one, minus the Absorbing Path.
Circumstantially, other Bijuu might be able to as well.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You know....reading the battle(if one can call it that) between Hanzo and Mifune, Hanzo was sorta like Danzo. Except I liked Hanzo more, obviously.They even rhyme! 😮
Hanzo's awesome. His weakness is a stupid, shitty one on the other hand.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hanzo's awesome. His weakness is a stupid, shitty one on the other hand.
What is his weakness? The gut thing is only dangerous if someone takes off his mask and then cuts his gut. 😛
Granted, it does look like a weakpoint. But clothes seem to cover it.
But yeah, he is such a badass. In his manner anyway.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Bee, sans Hachibi, is not>>>>KCM Naruto. It's possible he *might* be stronger physically as Bee would obviously use taijutsu more and has a better build for it. But in terms of fighting, Naruto would throttle him.