Originally posted by danteiscool
I more or less agree with you, dadudemon, on Minato's stats except maybe for his strength. I'd rate that at about 3.5, 4 at the highest.
I thought the same until AuraAngel had me reading back through some stuff a few months back. Then...
He made a larger crater with Madara's body than A did with Sasuke's body:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55672-3/naruto/chapter-503.html
Q99 says that was due to the Rasengan's super duper-ness. That's not the whole case, though. He pushed it through the whole time, making the crater. The Rasengan did the damage to Madara's body but the "pushing" was done by Minato.
Originally posted by danteiscool
gotta say though, if he taught the move to those three, then how come he didn't teach it to Jiraiya? he was his master and all so they must have been close.
It was the Second's original technique. Minato developed a "level two" version of it. If Minato did that, then he's obviously developed it beyond almost all ninja's ability to master it (he taught Jiraiya rasengan, however).
See here:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55464-16/naruto/chapter-502.html
Originally posted by Q99
He's shown elements other than fire?(I'm assuming the astroids were gravity-jutsu and not earth-jutsu)
*Edit* Oh, right, Wood! Hm, does a wood implant allow use of it's components...? It might not... of course Rinnegan grants basic access... it might be he just has Fire, whatever else he knew before, and Wood.
Yep, Wood. It isn't a simple implant though, and besides, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to use Earth & Water.
In addition, he likely has at least one other element. I cannot imagine a guy like him not knowing another element.
Yeah, I don't think he has access to all elements thanks to the Rinnegan, simply because he only had it for a short while.
That said, he could easily copy techs with his Sharingan, and emulate them now.
~ http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/60660556/3
Hmm, is that a blood-stain I see underneath his right eye?
Yeah, I don't think he has access to all elements thanks to the Rinnegan, simply because he only had it for a short while.
That said, he could easily copy techs with his Sharingan, and emulate them now.
But wouldn't he have only gotten Wood at the same time he got the Rinnegan, more or less?
Hmm, is that a blood-stain I see underneath his right eye?
Huh, can't tell, could be blood, could be shadow.
Originally posted by Q99
But wouldn't he have only gotten Wood at the same time he got the Rinnegan, more or less?Huh, can't tell, could be blood, could be shadow.
Right, but you have to be able to use Earth & Water to use Wood in the first place.
True, but it seems like that streak is shaded a little differently.
I doubt Kabuto would do that though. He's too busy orgasming over Madara's power.
I) http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v35/c316/7.html
II) http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v14/c120/6.html
III) http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c478/9.html
IV) http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v59/c561/12.html
Madara's usage of Mokuton is remarkably similar to Yamato's & Hashirama's usage, and different from Danzou's.
Ergo, nah.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Q99 says that was due to the Rasengan's super duper-ness. That's not the whole case, though. He pushed it through the whole time, making the crater. The Rasengan did the damage to Madara's body but the "pushing" was done by Minato.
Take a look at this: Itachi's clone being hit by a great ball rasengan
It makes a huge crater, even though Naruto isn't even hitting towards the ground.
Rasengans make big craters before factoring in pushing.
Originally posted by Q99
Take a look at this: Itachi's clone being hit by a great ball rasenganIt makes a huge crater, even though Naruto isn't even hitting towards the ground.
Rasengans make big craters before factoring in pushing.
That's....a great ball rasengan. Not a regular rasengan. Additionally, the destruction of that rasengan is very "round" and "spherical". Not the destructive appearance like Minato's attack or the Raikage's attack. Minato is also clearly pushing Tobi into the ground whereas Naruto is pushing Itachi's clone parallel to the ground.
On top of that, Naruto still has to withstand the forces of that Rasengan and his strength is definitely a 3.5 at that point. Naruto is not even a full grown man but Minato was.
If you want to assume that Naruto's strength has not improved even since chapter 260, that is not really supportable. If you want to assume that Naruto's strength could improve before he reaches Minato's age, that's believable.
A bare minimum of 5 for Minato, however. I would not be surprised if his strength was a high 5, though. Like, around Raikage's level.
That's....a great ball rasengan. Not a regular rasengan.
So? The difference is just one of size.
Additionally, the destruction of that rasengan is very "round" and "spherical".
Ok. Possibly that's because of the difference between a horizontal and vertical hit, possibly because of Minato's pushing through the very damaged ground (i.e. the rock was already in little chunks, Minato's strength just pushed it aside, i.e. it wasn't causing the damage but did affect how things looked)- either way, a Rasengan definitely causes significant ground damage and Minato's strength wasn't close to a sole cause.
Consider also the water tank Naruto hit- that caused a whole lot of damage and it wasn't even in Naruto's hand at the time, let alone pushed.
Rasengans do a lot of damage. The damage from a 'pushed' rasengan is far more attributible to the rasengan than the strength.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I would be awesome if he did! 313But Danzo used it. Madara is simply able to control it whereas Danzo fails.
Oh shush. You've already been wrong about Madara's time of death. 😛
I take it you did not read the scans. Danzo simply created a tree from a hand that was made up of Hashirama's cells.
Madara used an actual Mokuton jutsu. Big^3 difference.
In addition, Wood Release is created only when one uses Earth & Water at the same time.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Oh shush. You've already been wrong about Madara's time of death. 😛I take it you did not read the scans. Danzo simply created a tree from a hand that was made up of Hashirama's cells.
Madara used an actual Mokuton jutsu. Big^3 difference.
In addition, Wood Release is created only when one uses Earth & Water at the same time.
But I predicted Sasuke's sharingan! 😮
Maybe I can only predicted Sasugay related events?
Actually he just uncovered the head and used it without handsigns. 😛
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
But I predicted Sasuke's sharingan! 😮
Maybe I can only predicted Sasugay related events?Actually he just uncovered the head and used it without handsigns. 😛
Madara > Sasuke. 😖hifty:
Naturally. You want to be him, no?
Still different from what Yamato, Hashirama & Madara do. 😛
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Madara > Sasuke. 😖hifty:
Naturally. You want to be him, no?Still different from what Yamato, Hashirama & Madara do. 😛
Sasuke will beat Madara. 313
Not especially. I would like to grow up to be sorta like a male version of Chiyo. Man she kicked ass.
Nah. They used wood, he used wood. Is all good man, appreciate the wood. Until Naruto/Sasuke break your wood. Then be mad cause you ain't got no wood no more.
Originally posted by Q99
So? The difference is just one of size.
And you don't see why that would have anything to do with your point?
Even a little?
Originally posted by Q99
Ok. Possibly that's because of the difference between a horizontal and vertical hit, possibly because of Minato's pushing through the very damaged ground (i.e. the rock was already in little chunks, Minato's strength just pushed it aside, i.e. it wasn't causing the damage but did affect how things looked)- either way, a Rasengan definitely causes significant ground damage and Minato's strength wasn't close to a sole cause.
1. Wrong: it was spherical in destruction and had a clear sphere of destruction (it was even visible...the sphere was). Minato's did not have one.
2. The ground, on Minato's attack, was not damaged or loose. It was in the woods a few miles away from Konoha. Check the pages before the page I posted up: there's no "broken up" ground as you describe.
3. Minato's damage to the ground was purely his strength. The damage caused to Tobi's clothing and flesh WERE the direct damage caused by the Rasengan. Or are you going to explain the clear discrepancy between the damage on the ground and the damage to Tobi? Why are there two separate forms of damage? This sounds eerily familiar. 😆 Basically, you're trying to have your cake and eat it to. If it was the rasengan that cause the ground damage, it should have made Tobi's flash complete bits. Tobi has a wicked durability feat. We see the damage a regular rasengan does to a tree and to Kabuto. That does not account for the massive land damage from his Rasengan...and why Tobi was unscathed. I think you'd have a better case that Minato's rasengan was not as powerful as the one's Naruto uses (until later forms), actually.
Originally posted by Q99
Consider also the water tank Naruto hit- that caused a whole lot of damage and it wasn't even in Naruto's hand at the time, let alone pushed.
That damage does not even come close to the damage Minato caused to the ground and area around it.
On top of that, consider the attack Naruto did to Kabuto: Kabuto had much more damage than Tobi did.
Originally posted by Q99
The damage from a 'pushed' rasengan is far more attributible to the rasengan than the strength.
Incorrect: you must possess the strength to even use it, first, before using it. A weak ninja could not use it. Naruto was at a 3 rating when he used the Rasengan.
On top of that, the Rasengan Minato used caused very little damage to Tobi. You could make a better case (you, specifically) that the rasengan Minato used had very little destruction and was almost all strength. Compare the surface damage done by that one to the damage done by Naruto's...and the damage done to the trees.
We saw what a rasengan does to the trees: leaves a bowling ball sized hole in the tree. Now explain the damage done to the ground around Minato without having to use a significant amount of strength, given those facts.
It's quite simple: you can't.
Minato is a bare minimum of a 5...possibly a high end 5.