USH'S MATRIX GAME FOURTH ASSIGNMENT (PHILOSOPHY PATH)- 'The Journey'

Ok, well, assuming you make a choice to try and achieve something, yes? And you make that choice based on the information available to you. If that information is false, then whatever your choice was, you could not achieve the desired effect (save by lucky coincidence, which we can ignore).

So if your decision is based on a false assumption, this supposition goes, does the choice not then become worthless? It cannot achieve its purpose- to achieve the desired effect. Whatever achieves might be significant in other ways but the choice itself is invalid.

yes, that is true....though i said earlier that it is valid, that's where you're getting to...what i meant then is that however the decision was, i can't say: "hey!...that's not fair. the decision doesn't count". By THAT i meant valid.

No, that's fine, I understood there was a fuzziness over what 'valid' meant so I approached the thing from another direction instead.

Ok, so, in as much as the objective of a choice or decision is to achieve an affect, is everyone in agreement that falise assumptions in the process therefore render the choice invalid? I think everyone at this point agrees with this save Azrael...

i agree

And we seem to have lost Heph...

Anyway, assuming that Trickster sticks with his answer, Melitus has another aside to add.

The image of the stars winks out and is replaced by an image of Rade talking.

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"No...it is simply a sick simulation. there is nothing real that has to do with the Matrix.."

-

"I took issue with your definition of 'real'," says Melitus, "but perhaps I did you an injustice. Can you explain what you meant by this statement?"

The matrix is a copy. Things appear to happen in there, as they do outside. It is useful for the machines, but completely unnecessary from the human's point of view, wich would rather start rebuilding their world, than linger in a...game.
The only thing identical to the real world, within the matrix, is dying. Everything else....is just a matter of intention. It doesn't really happen.
The mind just...just makes decisions. But the only course of actions the mind can do, that translates in the outside world, is one that leads to dying.

"Are you making out that the Matrix is in some way a false reality, a deception for humans?"

"not in some way..in ALL the ways. except for that one...death"

"Would you say that everything in the Matrix is inherently deceptive? Your exception od death being noted for that, of course."

" not as much deceptive, as inexistent. The mind is aware of what it's doing, so we could say that one MIGHT do the same things in the real world also. Though what he does in there...doesn't happen"

"Well, something is there," says Melitus. "Else the Matrix would not exist at all. But what you see is not what is there. When you see, say, a table, it is not actually a table, it is a computer programme, you are just being misled into thinking it is a table, would you agree?"

OOC
Can anyone answer?

That's actually quite a simple one of you guys- you know the image of the table is false. You can see what it really looks like in your ships- green code. Whilst hooked into the Matrix your brain is fooled into seeing otherwise by the neural-interactive simulation.

yes, ofcourse i agree. But what i'm saying is that the table's not there.
They ARE there, somehow, but as mere electrical signals.

'Mere' is the relative term there, of course; electrical signals exist just as much as solid objects do.

Does anyone disagree with the deceptive make-up of the Matrix?

yes, ofcourse they exist. But projected to the right place (the brain, in our case) whilst unaware of their existance, they can mean much more than they really are. ...a deception.

the matrix has a deceptive make-up it tricks ppl in believing things

"They are a deception, true."

"Very well," says Melitus.

"So if everything in the Matrix is deceptive... how can any decision made inside it be valid? It is all based on false information..."

'It can't"