USH'S MATRIX GAME FOURTH ASSIGNMENT (PHILOSOPHY PATH)- 'The Journey'

Well, you SAY machines don't have souls... that's fine, I just want to establish that this is your view, not everyone's.

how much more time we got ush?

Well, a maximum of two sequences for the fight then some post-fight gumf... max two week, I would want basic submissions about a week from now which would give us time for editing.

Ok then folks, let's start getting whatever ideas you currently have all laid out...

eek...yeah...i'll scrap something up

Um, okay, this is what I got.

Azrael doesn't really mind who dies, as long as the other still works to free the matrix, and helps Xion(or does it individually, whatever) so to him it doesn't matter who drinks. And since both are thinking the same, whichever lived would still help Xion, so the only presentation Azrael could make was that he doesn't mind, and leave it up to the roll of your die.

Ok, so, Azrael, you are rejecting any moral grounds on which one can be chosen- that's fine. Unlike Castor, who says the original has the moral right to exist on grounds of usefulness.

Now, before you carry on with that line of reasoning, Azrael- the idea that you might lose your character is rather designed is a disincentive. Are you sure you would not rather come up with an idea which left things less random?

If not, then I still need to know what case you present to your other self, via Melitus, as to which of you drinks. Obviously I cannot roll a die until I know which one does!

No-one else will make that choice for you.

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I have akready established that the real castor should live and do his duty for Zion(Azreal there is no X in Xion....errrr). This meets the best interest if what both the clone and the real castor want, the preservation of zion and the end of the war. The real castor is better equipped to do this.

On the ground sof which is to drink I cant seem to find any logic as to which one should do so because there is no distinguishing between the two form our point of view. There are no percievavle differences to lead us to any sort of conclusion.

My character has state dhis belief in fate. That whatever is meant to be will be. He believes the real castor will live. If he believes it then both of the castors should believe it.

Now that means that neither one is too determined to not drink the wine because we believe castors fate ot be something not in our hands.

Although Ush said that our wall difference is not avalid one i believe it is in deciding who will drink if nothing else. That is to say I can now distinguish one from the other in an argument.

Now what that argument will be and how i can make it one that cannot be mirrored is a riddle that i have no answer to and am open to opionons about.

Castor, you can make no difference about who driunks based on the position of the wall in your oom. If it makes it eaiser, in your case I will put you in identical rooms. Just forget about that whole thing.

BTW, I need to know WHY you think fate decrees the real Castor will live. That seems fuzzy.

Ush, will this be finished by next Tuesday? I'm going away this Tuesday to next Tuesday.... Sorry.

Oooh, I doubt it, but in case we DO finish in-between, you can always make your submission by then.

Well if you do finish in between, the submission will have to be what I put above about Azrael not really minding, and as who to drink 'I' will drink, because there is no objective risk, and it doesn't matter who will live, but 'I' hope the other has a happy life.

I'll try to think up something better for when I get back.

It simply won't happen- you cannot agree who drinks. There simply will not be any drinking until that happens.

Huh?

Both of you need to agree on who drinks else it won't happen. So you cannot just say it is you because you want it to be you; you have to objectively identify one or the other.

THough you would all do well to remember the problem as Melitus originally framed it; people have gotten very distracted since then.

I think fate decrees the real catsor should live because the clone has no fate. It is not real. It is a program. Fate is associated with having a soul. One cannot have a fate if he has no soul to guide him to it. The program has no fate. The real Castor does.

Of course the programme is real, there it is, right in front of you.

And why do you a. think that not having a soul denies you a fate and b. think that that therefore means the real Castor will live? Why are you not fated to die? Do you close your eyes when you cross the road, or never dodge any attack made against you on the idea you are 'fated to live'? I see no consistency with your past behaviour here.

Rephrase, the clone is not a real person..

The real castor must live because his fat has not yet been met. The oracle set him on a path that would lead him to significantly turning the tide of this war. He has yet to do that.

As for the belief that soul means fate, it is a belief. Something Catsor believes, I cannot pose an arguyment for it because it is just something he believes in. For that reason perhaps it should not be considered as part of my argument.

What the Oracle says is not so inevitable that it cannot not happen- you can die in a gunfight and then whatever she said was clearly metaphorical. Like I say, you have not been acting as if you are indestructible so I do not see why you would here.

Also, you have connected what the Oracle says with fate. The Oracle can make predictions about machines also, which you say cannot have fates. So there is some trouble with consistency there as well.