World of Warcraft

Originally posted by DarkC
It brings balance to the gameplay. Why would horde numbers drop exactly? What's happened to make the Alliance suddenly seem more appealing?

No, that's just being narrow-minded. Remember, an entire race is not bound to just one ideology. Look at the orcs, for instance. You have Orc Warlocks, Orc Shamans, and they're serving the same cause, the same motive. Why can't some Blood Elves be that way, be a bit different? That's how the Blood Elves, originally the High Elves came into being. They were once the Highborne(royalty-ish) class of Night Elves. It's not like the entire BE race is bound to just being a mage or a warlock.

Horde numbers are already significantly lower on almost all servers, the only thing keeping the numbers somewhat stable is the fact that to play a shaman, one of the strongest classes in the game, you have to be horde. Give this class to the alliance and horde numbers will drop even further. Alliance have the better content, the alliance leveling zones are are better, they have better lore behind them, plus the characters are more aesthetically pleasing to most people. All this, plus now being able to play as a Shaman and enjoy the superior zones and lore, will contribute to alliance numbers increasing even more. Plus, it was nice to have each faction have its own class that the other faction couldn't use.

It's not being narrow-minded, bunch of crap, that is. It's being logical. From a lore standpoint, it's stupid that a magic-crazed race would be given the allowance of the light gods to use their powers. If we're going to use this logic of "well, not all blood elves are like that, some are different, so on" then following the same logic, every race should be able to play every class. Should it be that way? of course not, some combinations simply don't make sense according to Warcraft lore. Night Elf Warlocks don't make sense, Gnome Druids don't make sense, and Blood Elf Paladins don't make sense. Paladins are given their powers by the gods. Why would these same gods bless Blood Elves, who are selfish by nature and only care about magic for their own obsessive needs, to use their divine powers?

Vinny< How did you come to the conclusion that most people want it that way? There are many many people who really don't like this new change, it seems pretty much split down the middle, to me.

Originally posted by BackFire
Horde numbers are already significantly lower on almost all servers, the only thing keeping the numbers somewhat stable is the fact that to play a shaman, one of the strongest classes in the game, you have to be horde. Give this class to the alliance and horde numbers will drop even further. Alliance have the better content, the alliance leveling zones are are better, they have better lore behind them, plus the characters are more aesthetically pleasing to most people. All this, plus now being able to play as a Shaman and enjoy the superior zones and lore, will contribute to alliance numbers increasing even more. Plus, it was nice to have each faction have its own class that the other faction couldn't use.

It's not being narrow-minded, bunch of crap, that is. It's being logical. From a lore standpoint, it's stupid that a magic-crazed race would be given the allowance of the light gods to use their powers. If we're going to use this logic of "well, not all blood elves are like that, some are different, so on" then following the same logic, every race should be able to play every class. Should it be that way? of course not, some combinations simply don't make sense according to Warcraft lore. Night Elf Warlocks don't make sense, Gnome Druids don't make sense, and Blood Elf Paladins don't make sense. Paladins are given their powers by the gods. Why would these same gods bless Blood Elves, who are selfish by nature and only care about magic for their own obsessive needs, to use their divine powers?

Vinny< How did you come to the conclusion that most people want it that way? There are many many people who really don't like this new change, it seems pretty much split down the middle, to me.

I'm just Skipping to my Part.

I looked around different WoW Forums, I talked with people who played the game on Vent, I've talked to people I know who play, Family and not. and 70% Of them say its going to make the Horde a Better Section.

Originally posted by BackFire
Horde numbers are already significantly lower on almost all servers, the only thing keeping the numbers somewhat stable is the fact that to play a shaman, one of the strongest classes in the game, you have to be horde. Give this class to the alliance and horde numbers will drop even further.

Just because there will be shamans available to the Alliance doesn't mean that every newcomer to each server will be scrambling to make a shaman on the Alliance side. Sure, it gives people who want to create one an option on either side, but that's all.

And you're forgetting that the Blood Elves have the more appealing racial abilities. What about mana tap? It's like carrying combo points in an odd way, but it's available to the entire race.

Originally posted by BackFire
Alliance have the better content, the alliance leveling zones are are better, they have better lore behind them, plus the characters are more aesthetically pleasing to most people. All this, plus now being able to play as a Shaman and enjoy the superior zones and lore, will contribute to alliance numbers increasing even more. Plus, it was nice to have each faction have its own class that the other faction couldn't use.

As for it being nice for a unique faction class, it brought some problems with it too. I keep seeing plate in the auction house with intellect/spirit boosts that never sell. An example of this would be the Lightforge gear, it goes for dirt cheap on my server. Plus, on the Alliance side, you have a shitload of high-level mail items that would normally go in a flash to Shammies. And what about PvP? The only way you could fight another Shaman in combat was duelling, and it's not as intense as real PvP/Battlegrounds. Players will be given a chance to go into some serious PvP this way.

Originally posted by BackFire
It's not being narrow-minded, bunch of crap, that is. It's being logical. From a lore standpoint, it's stupid that a magic-crazed race would be given the allowance of the light gods to use their powers. If we're going to use this logic of "well, not all blood elves are like that, some are different, so on" then following the same logic, every race should be able to play every class. Should it be that way? of course not, some combinations simply don't make sense according to Warcraft lore. Night Elf Warlocks don't make sense, Gnome Druids don't make sense, and Blood Elf Paladins don't make sense. Paladins are given their powers by the gods. Why would these same gods bless Blood Elves, who are selfish by nature and only care about magic for their own obsessive needs, to use their divine powers?

They're particularly pissed off at Arthas too, remember? And I'd say the Undead Scourge pose a rather larger stain on the face of Azeroth to these light Gods than some elvish race who were a bunch of good fellows, albeit rather misguided in recent times. "Hell, if they want to kill the Scourge so bad, why not just give it to them? Do us all a favour."

Hahahaha, come to think of it, that's probably one of the reasons why Undead Priests exist. And hey, if people can learn to accept an Undead Priest (which goes against all "logic", yet there are plenty of them), they can sure as hell learn to accept a Blood Elf Paladin.

While the shaman is undeniably one of the strongest classes in the game individually for the Horde, so is the paladin for the Alliance. They're basically warriors who can cast a bit and heal. They can shield as well. That's pretty damn tough, especially for soloing.

Just because there will be shamans available to the Alliance doesn't mean that every newcomer to each server will be scrambling to make a shaman on the Alliance side. Sure, it gives people who want to create one an option on either side, but that's all.

And you're forgetting that the Blood Elves have the more appealing racial abilities. What about mana tap? It's like carrying combo points in an odd way, but it's available to the entire race.

They're basically gimped warriors who can heal. They have nothing for group aggro control, they have like 1 offensive skill, and it's on a cooldown. Shaman>Paladin. They're a better class, they can do more, and they do what they do better. Not to mention they're more appealing to play because they have some great offensive abilities. Point is, I'd bet dollars to donuts that more people play horde so they can be a shaman than play alliance so they can be a paladin.

Blood Elf racials are all well and good, but not good enough to overcome the power of the shaman class. Do you have any idea how many times I've heard on the horde side "I'm just on horde so I can play a Shaman, I like alliance better". Now that these people can be alliance and shaman, you will see the alliance outnumber the horde even more than they do now.

No. Those are all a matter of opinion. While many people may share your point of view in that the Alliance are superior, many others will side with the Horde, saying that their races are cooler, their zones are cooler, etc. Including me; I've always been a fan of Thrall and the orcs in general, that's why my main's an orc warrior. And I find Orgrimmar way cooler than Ironforge. Just the other day, some random high level guy visited TB for the first time and thought it was the coolest city in the entire game. Again; opinion.

As for it being nice for a unique faction class, it brought some problems with it too. I keep seeing plate in the auction house with intellect/spirit boosts that never sell. An example of this would be the Lightforge gear, it goes for dirt cheap on my server. Plus, on the Alliance side, you have a shitload of high-level mail items that would normally go in a flash to Shammies. And what about PvP? The only way you could fight another Shaman in combat was duelling, and it's not as intense as real PvP/Battlegrounds. Players will be given a chance to go into some serious PvP this way.

What's a matter of opinion is a persons feelings on what races look cool, or what zones are nice,though make no mistake, the alliance zones, from a technical standpoint, are much better, they have more variety. There's so many horde zones that are just ugly rock areas, starting with The Barrens.

What isn't a matter of opinion, is that the lore behind the alliance zones, particularly westfall and Duskwood, are fleshed out much better. As a human nearly every quest from the start is building up the conflict with the defias brotherhood, which comes to a head in the first major alliance instance. There's actually tension that's been built up prior to that instance. But regaurdless, the fact is, alliance is already over populated, giving them the most desirable class in the game is only going to make them even more so.

I know certain types of armor aren't too popular for each faction, but there are cross factions Auction houses that all but solve that problem.

No, what I meant is; no one should be narrowminded enough to brand an entire race as one entity, and no one should be open minded enough to think that every race should be able to play every class. I say this specifically because I've looked into their history, before Silvermoon was razed. You're thinking in terms of present-tense, but hindsight's important as well. Get a little creative here. They were a decent people, if a little arrogant, before their capital fell and they were consumed by revenge and a lust for magic. There exists the possibility that there might have been a holy order of high elves that continued on after. And that they're not as selfish as the rest of their "cursed" race.

They're particularly pissed off at Arthas too, remember? And I'd say the Undead Scourge pose a rather larger stain on the face of Azeroth to these light Gods than some elvish race who were a bunch of good fellows, albeit rather misguided in recent times. "Hell, if they want to kill the Scourge so bad, why not just give it to them? Do us all a favour."

Hahahaha, come to think of it, that's probably one of the reasons why Undead Priests exist. And hey, if people can learn to accept an Undead Priest (which goes against all "logic", yet there are plenty of them), they can sure as hell learn to accept a Blood Elf Paladin.

Dude, have you even read HOW the BE's got the paladin power? They stole it, for selfish (there's that word again) needs. It's crap, it's a copout on Blizzards part, just a lazy way of shaking stuff up. Their explanation is crap, because the idea itself is crap. Blood Elves are arguably the most purely evil race in the game now, an evil race "stealing" divine powers is just bogus.

The lore behind Undead Priests actually make sense. Priests of each race worship a different god, hence why each race gets some unique spells, depending on each specific god. The Undead worship a darker lord, hence why their racial priest spells involve shadow magic. They get their powers from a different god than the humans/Night Elves/ect do. The Paladin, on the other hand, worships a specific god, one that the bood elf race certainly doesn't worship.

Originally posted by DarkC
And what was the shaman wearing? Details, details!

Right, right.

If you haven't figured out by now, the Paladin is not the first into battle. The warriors are. Paladins are figureheads as much as they are battlers, while warriors are just full out decked for combat. First one in. Last one out. Hence, the term "support".

No, you're wrong. Their "demonism" was used for what they thought was right. They were judged against by their own faction, while the Horde accepted them. A terrible thirst for magical energy does not make them demons, it doesn't make them go around slaying willy-nilly.

Warlocks are a better example of "demonism". Steal Soul. Blood Pact. And yet you see them getting along chummily with the Paladins, no?

Orcs? Hahahaha! Pure orc magic is solely of the natural world, and the spirits within. Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Wilds. While some delve into demonic energies. If you had bothered to read Lord of the Clans, you would understand. They believe in nothing Holy and they never will. And just because they're addicted to honor doesn't make them Paladin-worthy. Think of a modern day Pope, twenty years younger with rippling muscle, plate armor, and a warhammer. That's a Paladin. A paladin is as much a holy priest as he is a fighter, sometimes more so. It's pretty obvious if you look at some of the different names between the warrior and paladin armor sets. Valor, Heroism. Lawbringer, Judgement.

Why do you think some orc NPC's say "Strength and Honor!" when you click on them? The warrior class is their favourite.

No. I view your opinions as anti-WoW. That's right, plural. Why? Because all I've seen you say about this game and all I've remembered you saying about this game, is negative. You've branded yourself the Official WoW Pessimist.

Come to think of it, I haven't seen you pipe out a good opinion of a game since....I can't even remember. Does that tell you anything about the impressions you hand out?

Ah, the old "accusatory suck up" cliche. Am I a Blizzard mod suck up, just because I'm loyal to the way the game is meant to be played? No. I'd keep my same opinion whether I worked for Blizzard or not.

Don't try and avoid the subject. If it's "moot", why is it not worthy of discussion? Just because you find the subject "silly" doesn't make it completely irrelevant and stupid. You haven't even explained why this subject annoys you in the first place. Efficiency, efficiency.

No, you're wrong. The Death Knight doesn't fight for what he thinks is right. He fights for what he craves. And that's power.

You missed one catch on the Scarlet Paladin. What is 'right' is dictated by the light? That's only for what their 'light' stands for. Which is why they retained their 'Holy' powers in the first place. Take modern day religion, there's only one God, but you have Roman Catholism, Protestants, etc. Paladins in different causes are very much the same.

Anyways, the automatic assumption that all Paladins are 'good' is just naive. You have religious wars going on even today; even if they're confined to the boardrooms instead of the battlefields. Why shouldn't it be similar in the WoW?

Don't be so ridiculous. Go check in the WoW Guild Thread before, you said something, Vinny replied, you continue to spread pessimism in a thread made for a guild, who appreciate WoW.

And you told me to keep it in the WoW general thread when you so obviously posted in the Guild thread after I told you to keep it here?

Try not to be such a hypocrite. And he's a Grunt now.

Oh, and it's not just us you're annoying.

That's right, they do...and they do so because of people who play the game as is and don't b*tch about some nerfing or other. It's pointless and stupid whining about some aspect in WoW you can't even change.

And no, I don't see you posting suggestions in the WoW Forums. One, I never go there in the first place, and two, I was under the impression that you were permanently banned.

Considering that they were adapting a real-time strategy game plot into a MMORPG, they still did a fine job.

Can't always have your cake and eat it too.

- the shaman from what I could tell was wearing pvp gear with that popular shield that pallys use (that looks like a horde insignia).. I dont know about his main hand.. as he never used it.. he was harassing southshore I believe

- the developers promised that the game would contain no pure support classes.. so far from what I can tell.. thats all paladins are used for... I'm just callin it like I sees it

- when you fuddle with a certain type of magic.. you become engrossed in its power... Necromancers anyone?... they all go crazy if you hadnt noticed... warlocks get pretty damn evil too...
thus demonology cannot lead to a good road.. regardless of the need for ones own survival, and how 'honorable' you may view that

- the warlock issue is another nonsense of blizzards... they threw away blood elves cuz of their demonology, but warlocks are perfectly ok 😄

- Being a pessimist is far better than gobbling up whatever gets shoved down your throat.. at least in my opinion... dont I have a right to be cautious about something I'd be sinking my money into?

- I simply "implied" you were a suck up because you're gobbling up whatever gets thrown at you.. which shows me that A.) you probably dont play , or even have a paladin, B.) You dont view PvP as a main point of your gameplay experience.. or C.) You PvP, but not as a paladin, so you could give a shit less what happens to them, or their lore

- because the forsaken issue annoys many paladins... which is now half-corrected by allowing us to use it on demons.. plus it has nothing to do with b.elves being paladins , or dranei being shaman...

- yeah.. what death knight thinks is right is slaughtering people with the power he craves..

- that much I'll give you (about different paladins holding different viewpoints and being correct thus maintaining their light)

- I dont think all paladins have to be good, ... but they shouldnt be retaining "light" while using the forces of demonology to feed their hunger... thats having your cake and eating it too

- I replied to you in the thread and ended it with lets post it here... I didnt see you ending your reply with "ok sats lets post it in the general thread"... someone had to do it right?

- Theres really no such thing as a perma ban unless you make a thread telling the blue where he/she can put it.. which is obviously not in my case-issue

- they did an 'aiight' job at adapting it.. not really what I was 'expecting' per say

Its not really the style of gameplay , nor the way in which you play the game that annoys me..WoW's outer core is the whole "Fun for the whole family" deal which I enjoy whole-heartedly as well......but its the petty inner core of wow with all of the stealth nerfing and lore bs'ing to make things fit....that sort of stuff really annoys me

its obviously of no annoyance to you because you're unaffected by the changes that are made

Originally posted by BackFire
I was at first very intrigued by the idea of BE being able to be Paladins, and Draenei Shaman. Though, the more I think about it, the more I'm not liking it. It hurts lore, and ultimately, it hurts the gameplay. Plus, it's going to destroy faction numbers. People can be Alliance AND Shaman? Horde numbers are going to drop, big time. Plus it's just stupid from a lore perspective. Why the hell would Blood Elves be Paladins? Sats is right, they're demonic, they don't worship the light.

ugh.. thank god!.. or whoever the hell is up there... I'm not the only one! >_<

the only good thing I can see coming of this is that if the horde complain paladin sucks... paladins'll get buffed...

B.Elf paladins = pallys with AoE silence and mana siphon.. lmfao.. broken much?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- the shaman from what I could tell was wearing pvp gear with that popular shield that pallys use (that looks like a horde insignia).. I dont know about his main hand.. as he never used it.. he was harassing southshore I believe

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- the developers promised that the game would contain no pure support classes.. so far from what I can tell.. thats all paladins are used for... I'm just callin it like I sees it

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- when you fuddle with a certain type of magic.. you become engrossed in its power... Necromancers anyone?... they all go crazy if you hadnt noticed... warlocks get pretty damn evil too...
thus demonology cannot lead to a good road.. regardless of the need for ones own survival, and how 'honorable' you may view that

Oh, wait. Medivh was possessed by Sargeras. Never mind, he doesn't count then.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- the warlock issue is another nonsense of blizzards... they threw away blood elves cuz of their demonology, but warlocks are perfectly ok 😄

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Being a pessimist is far better than gobbling up whatever gets shoved down your throat.. at least in my opinion... dont I have a right to be cautious about something I'd be sinking my money into?

Being "cautious" on what you spend your money on does not mean that you have to criticise everything that you even find slightly wrong with the game. And it's not like you're forced to continue to pay for it. You either play or you don't. Suck it up and quit complaining, because the chances that someone influential is listening is slim to nil.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- I simply "implied" you were a suck up because you're gobbling up whatever gets thrown at you.. which shows me that A.) you probably dont play , or even have a paladin, B.) You dont view PvP as a main point of your gameplay experience.. or C.) You PvP, but not as a paladin, so you could give a shit less what happens to them, or their lore

Hahahaha, why would you think I don't even play when I'm debating in favour of the game? Absolutely ridiculous logic there, really.

I don't do serious PvP often unless it's a weekend. Personally I think it's a waste of time after you gain Corporal status to get your trinket, unless you're a 60 with at least Tier One gear, the honor's more worth it then. Until then, I can't be assed to put effort into battling other people when I could have been levelling.

I do have a paladin on another server, but I don't play him as much. Mainly because I'm content on levelling up my rogue.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- yeah.. what death knight thinks is right is slaughtering people with the power he craves..

- I dont think all paladins have to be good, ... but they shouldnt be retaining "light" while using the forces of demonology to feed their hunger... thats having your cake and eating it too

They call it demonology because it seems like what demons(in particularly the felbeasts) do to satiate their hunger, sucking up magical energy. However, that's still a far cry from the darker types of demonlogy. By that I mean warlock magic. Seriously, which do you think is more evil in a sense? Direct contact with demons and demonic magic than doing classic sorcery that the demons like to do?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- I replied to you in the thread and ended it with lets post it here... I didnt see you ending your reply with "ok sats lets post it in the general thread"... someone had to do it right?

What the hell do you think this was, an official invitation to reply yet again in my guild's thread?

It sure seems like you took it that way, because you did it, after I openly said that that type of discussion belongs in the general WoW thread. "Someone" had to do it, you say. Yeah, been there, done that.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Theres really no such thing as a perma ban unless you make a thread telling the blue where he/she can put it.. which is obviously not in my case-issue

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- they did an 'aiight' job at adapting it.. not really what I was 'expecting' per say

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
but its the petty inner core of wow with all of the stealth nerfing and lore bs'ing to make things fit....that sort of stuff really annoys me

its obviously of no annoyance to you because you're unaffected by the changes that are made

And you either adapt and move on or stop playing. Complaining about something that's been "fixed" isn't going to accomplish dick.

Originally posted by BackFire
They're basically gimped warriors who can heal. They have nothing for group aggro control, they have like 1 offensive skill, and it's on a cooldown. Shaman>Paladin. They're a better class, they can do more, and they do what they do better. Not to mention they're more appealing to play because they have some great offensive abilities. Point is, I'd bet dollars to donuts that more people play horde so they can be a shaman than play alliance so they can be a paladin.

They don't necessarily "do more" all at once, in terms of specialties. It depends on what talent pane they choose to go into. You wouldn't want a resto Shaman to cast spells, an enhancement Shaman to heal, or an Elemental Shaman to tank.

Actually, I made a Paladin before I made a Shaman. Not all people create characters based on what you believe to be better in terms of technicalities.

Originally posted by BackFire
Blood Elf racials are all well and good, but not good enough to overcome the power of the shaman class. Do you have any idea how many times I've heard on the horde side "I'm just on horde so I can play a Shaman, I like alliance better". Now that these people can be alliance and shaman, you will see the alliance outnumber the horde even more than they do now.

And since so many people already have made a shaman on the Horde side and levelled it up to 60, why would they go out of their way to make another one on the Alliance side, just for the sake of staying on the Alliance? It makes no sense.

Originally posted by BackFire
What's a matter of opinion is a persons feelings on what races look cool, or what zones are nice,though make no mistake, the alliance zones, from a technical standpoint, are much better, they have more variety. There's so many horde zones that are just ugly rock areas, starting with The Barrens.

Originally posted by BackFire
What isn't a matter of opinion, is that the lore behind the alliance zones, particularly westfall and Duskwood, are fleshed out much better. As a human nearly every quest from the start is building up the conflict with the defias brotherhood, which comes to a head in the first major alliance instance. There's actually tension that's been built up prior to that instance.

Plus, Ragefire Chasm is better designed and much more exciting than the Stockades. What's the fun in running through a dreary old jail?

Originally posted by BackFire
I know certain types of armor aren't too popular for each faction, but there are cross factions Auction houses that all but solve that problem.

Originally posted by BackFire
Dude, have you even read HOW the BE's got the paladin power? They stole it, for selfish (there's that word again) needs. It's crap, it's a copout on Blizzards part, just a lazy way of shaking stuff up. Their explanation is crap, because the idea itself is crap. Blood Elves are arguably the most purely evil race in the game now, an evil race "stealing" divine powers is just bogus.

Originally posted by BackFire
The lore behind Undead Priests actually make sense. Priests of each race worship a different god, hence why each race gets some unique spells, depending on each specific god. The Undead worship a darker lord, hence why their racial priest spells involve shadow magic. They get their powers from a different god than the humans/Night Elves/ect do. The Paladin, on the other hand, worships a specific god, one that the bood elf race certainly doesn't worship.

No, Paladins in general don't really worship a specific being. You have the humans and Lothar, for example; he founded the Paladin order for the humans and they pray to him. He's like a saint to them. Not sure what the dwarves do.

How many ours do you guys play Wow cause this Chinese boy played everyday during his summer break for 10 hours a day and went blind.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/art/20...ind_warrior.htm

i just realized I placed it in the KMC WoW GUILD.

When I group with paladins on the Alliance server, they do a lot more and are substantially more helpful than the Shamans I have grouped with, over the levels. I'd rather have a Paladin than any shaman that's not DPS specc'ed.

They don't necessarily "do more" all at once, in terms of specialties. It depends on what talent pane they choose to go into. You wouldn't want a resto Shaman to cast spells, an enhancement Shaman to heal, or an Elemental Shaman to tank.

Actually, I made a Paladin before I made a Shaman. Not all people create characters based on what you believe to be better in terms of technicalities.

They do a lot more, meaning what? That just means the players you've encountered are better, not the class. A shaman has better healing abilities, and better offensive abilities.

Yes, they do do more all at once. Regaurdless of spec, a shaman can still heal very well, do very solid physical DPS, and magic DPS. A Shaman specced for in the elements can still be the main healer, and so fourth.

Didn't say all players do, stop spinning my words. I said more play horde for th e shaman then play alliance for the paladin.

Obviously, no amount of racials in the world can stand up to pretty much any class, but their racials are definitely the best in the game. And if you seem to hear the Shaman issue so much, why haven't I heard it once on my server? It makes me wonder which Faction you were on at the time.

And since so many people already have made a shaman on the Horde side and levelled it up to 60, why would they go out of their way to make another one on the Alliance side, just for the sake of staying on the Alliance? It makes no sense.

Yes, no amount of racials can stand up to a class. So why did you bring it up as a response to the shaman issue?

What I hear is that a lot of people play horde just so they can be a shaman. That's all.

They'd make another one because they like the class. Just like some people make rogues on each side, or mages or priests. Some people will make a new shaman despite the fact tha they already have on. Whatever the case, the alliance being allowed to be shamans is going to screw up the population issue more than ever. The only hope is that tons of people start blood elfs because they're "pretty" to counter all the people who want to play a shaman but don't want to play horde, or the people who like the shaman and like the alliance content better.

They're that way because they're supposed to be that way. It's in the lore. Southern Kalimdor was never the lushest place. I'd personally be disgusted if Durotar had somehow changed into a fruitful, vibrant region just for the sake of making things look good. They've already designed it to what it matches in the pervious Warcraft games, and I don't blame them if it looks ugly.

Yes, I know that. Doesn't mean I can't get bored by the look. Seeing as 3 zones all basically look the same, just with different colors. I could handle it if the quests and zones had better lore behind them, but for the horde, after the starting areas the lore goes south, unfortunately.

There's no doubt the Defias backdrop story is very interesting, but that's just concentrated in zones, all over the place. Sure, it's better than the zones on the Horde side. But what about the Defias counterpart for the Horde, the Burning Blade? It's very intriguing to know that at the core of the Horde, there are still people who secretly serve the demon's cause. I think it's cooler that you get the quests from Warchief Thrall rather than some random bimbos who are running errands from a higher power. And you find out that some NPC in the Cleft of Shadow is an agent of the BB.

Plus, Ragefire Chasm is better designed and much more exciting than the Stockades. What's the fun in running through a dreary old jail?

The Burning Blade story was cool, but they ended it too quickly. The Defias one goes on through your twenties, makes leveling more engaging because there is a static story going on.

Yes, getting quests from Thrall is sweet, but that doesn't change the storylines itself.

What's the fun of running through some cave? Stockades is nice and short, easy exp, very efficient. RFC is a waste of time, you don't get anything worth while. It's there as a tutorial for low level players to teach them about instances.

Not so. I browse the auctions every time I'm in Gadgetzan or Booty Bay, and all I usually find are herbs, blacksmithing mats, the occasional weapon or armor. There's rarely any blues or even less common, epics.

How often do you look? On the servers I played on there were shit on there all the time. And even when there wasn't, you could sell your items that werent' needed for your faction, which is what you were complaining about to begin with.

Considering the circumstances, I wouldn't think that anyone else could have stoked up a better story. They didn't put the Paladin there for lore purposes, they wanted balance in the game. Which Horde race do you think would be better for a Paladin than the Blood Elves. Maybe Undead, but they want something fresh out on the playing field. So we get Blood Elf Paladins. If you want to try and explain it better, be my guest.

You're right, no one else could think of a better story to flesh out the idea because the idea is shitty to begin with. Blood Elves are evil, they're selfish, they would not be blessed with the power of the light. This "stealing the light" shit is so stupid, I can't believe they went with it. It would make more sense for the Orcs to be blessed with the powers of the light, seeing as they're a good hearted race, now.

According to your logic, Shadow specced Priests from either faction would have bowed to the same "darker" god as the Undead Priests. Undead worshipping the same god as Dwarves? Unthinkable. It doesn't really make sense to me.

No, Paladins in general don't really worship a specific being. You have the humans and Lothar, for example; he founded the Paladin order for the humans and they pray to him. He's like a saint to them. Not sure what the dwarves do.

No they wouldn't, each races priests worship a different god, shadow priests are no different. Either you didn't understand what I said, or you're lying. But you're right, Undead worshipping the same god as Dwarves is stupid, oh but the evil blood elves worshiping the same light god and being allowed to use the powers of the dwarves and humans is a-okay, right?

Dwarf Paladins worship the same god as Human Paladins.

Originally posted by DarkC
Well, there you go. PvP gear, it does say quite a lot. PvP gear can give a rogue backstab crits of 2000+.

No, you're seeing it from a pure grouping point of view, as far as I can tell. And they're not "pure" support. It's not like they stand around, applying buffs and shit and wait around for everyone else. As I said before, they're one of the best soloing classes in the game.

Don't take nonsense, you're being extremely biased again, not to mention misinformed. Just because the necromancers in WarCraft III are pure evil, which I admit they were doesn't mean that whoever magic touches for an extended period of time doesn't mean they go absolutely insane and obsessed with it. They were bound to the will of the Lich King, remember? Do you think they had any control of their souls? No. Sure, you've got lunatics like Medivh and Gul'Dan and Illidan who went insane or so, but they're one in about a thousand.

Oh, wait. Medivh was possessed by Sargeras. Never mind, he doesn't count then.

So you think they're perfectly okay, yet you also think it's a nonsense issue? They're directly in contact into demons, they use demonic magic, they absorb the souls of their victim. I really fail to see how you can consider the Blood Elves more of "demonologists" than the warlocks.

That's the way you look at it? The way I see it, you seem to be absolutely intent on finding anything wrong with this game. You don't even say the good parts. Hell, you don't even acknowledge them.

Being "cautious" on what you spend your money on does not mean that you have to criticise everything that you even find slightly wrong with the game. And it's not like you're forced to continue to pay for it. You either play or you don't. Suck it up and quit complaining, because the chances that someone influential is listening is slim to nil.

Wrong again. I don't "gobble up" whatever's thrown at me. I go over it. Know how I can tell? By the time that a major patch has finished applying, I've carefully read the Patch Notes and alterations made at least half a dozen times. I'm not one of those ignorant carefree people who only scroll down to look at their main's class. I simply don't find anything wrong with it that merits major discussion about it.

Hahahaha, why would you think I don't even play when I'm debating in favour of the game? Absolutely ridiculous logic there, really.

I don't do serious PvP often unless it's a weekend. Personally I think it's a waste of time after you gain Corporal status to get your trinket, unless you're a 60 with at least Tier One gear, the honor's more worth it then. Until then, I can't be assed to put effort into battling other people when I could have been levelling.

I do have a paladin on another server, but I don't play him as much. Mainly because I'm content on levelling up my rogue.

Wrong again. Death Knights don't see what's "right" and what's "wrong" in their sense, and that's power, you just admitted it. They see what they want. Hell, even if they knew what was "right/wrong" they probably wouldn't even give a shit anyways, their souls belong to the Lich King.

They call it demonology because it seems like what demons(in particularly the felbeasts) do to satiate their hunger, sucking up magical energy. However, that's still a far cry from the darker types of demonlogy. By that I mean warlock magic. Seriously, which do you think is more evil in a sense? Direct contact with demons and demonic magic than doing classic sorcery that the demons like to do?

Jesus H. Christ.

What the hell do you think this was, an official invitation to reply yet again in my guild's thread?

It sure seems like you took it that way, because you did it, after I openly said that that type of discussion belongs in the general WoW thread. "Someone" had to do it, you say. Yeah, been there, done that.

Still, if you question the game mechanics and lore compared to the opinion of the ones who created this game series and the lore that seriously, I'd have given you a perm. Or at least a year-long.

As I said, they're adapting from RTS. Other MMORPG's are stand alones or in the case of SWG, are based of an intriguing and very dynamic plot. I didn't expect too much from the general plot, considering this is a MMORPG.

They make those changes because; one, they think it unbalances the game and makes it unfair or non-challenging in a way. Or two; someone else has complained about them. I don't know if that's passed through your mind.

And you either adapt and move on or stop playing. Complaining about something that's been "fixed" isn't going to accomplish dick.

- PvP gear should be nothing against Tier 2

- Soloing is really ineffective from mid to later levels simply because of the group exp modifier... moot point.... So basically because someone solos makes them not suck?.. I really dont see the logic in this..

- People get consumed by the magic they practice... why do you think people are 'afraid' of demonology.. and those who practice it must hide?

- Its "More" of blizzards nonsense.. but because people like you see nothing wrong with it.. it exists

- Apparently you've picked one of the non-abused classes of WoW which would lead to your 5 star rating hands down attitude about it.. my class got their talents a week before release.. not to mention their gameplay mechanics reworked.... how about yours? 🙂

- I'm not nitpicking.. these are issues brought up by people other than myself as well.. call them nitpickers too.. oh , and their threads and posts also probably get stealth locked / deleted for going against the grain as well

- You didnt understand the question.. to play as, or even have a paladin.. does not = playing the game at all... I was also correct in my assumption that you do not give a crap about paladins.. so why argue with me about this in the first place?

- I'm obviously talking about level 60 pvp.. noob pvp doesnt count

- Demonology = study of demons.. you cant sugar coat that no matter how hard you try... kudos though

- Even death knights had to start somewhere right?.. they dont just go.. "yeah lich king.. gimme the real shit" and get mind controlled
they have their own ideals about whats going to go on before they realise that road leads to having no mind

- Ugh. here we go again.. you said "dont post here". thats all you said and "this is for wow general"... you didnt say "lets continue this there" (by this I obviously mean 'our conversation'.. not just general chatter)... is english really your first language?.. I'd be shocked.. 😖

- You just said "someone else complaining" got it changed.. then in the next sentence "complaining wont do dick"... gee... getting alot of mixxed input here.. whereever could it be coming from...

- lol.. the whole "if i were MOD omgz"... you aint... I went against the grain to ask if a class had a purpose.. which, since I was paying to play the game, I think I had a right to do... I 'asked'... not "stated".. theres a biiiiiiiiig difference there... I wanted peoples opinions.. not tell them what I thought.... cuz as you know its pretty obvious 🙂

Originally posted by BackFire
They do a lot more, meaning what? That just means the players you've encountered are better, not the class. A shaman has better healing abilities, and better offensive abilities.
Yes, they do do more all at once. Regaurdless of spec, a shaman can still heal very well, do very solid physical DPS, and magic DPS. A Shaman specced for in the elements can still be the main healer, and so fourth.

No, they can't be the main healer. Think about what you're saying. They're specc'ed for Elemental, meaning they'll be casting spells a lot. Do you honestly think they'd have enough mana left to be able to carry on as a main healer? And I'd say that the Paladin would have better physical DPS, considering the fact that they often carry a two hand hammer, Blessing of Might, etc.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes, no amount of racials can stand up to a class. So why did you bring it up as a response to the shaman issue?

Originally posted by BackFire
What I hear is that a lot of people play horde just so they can be a shaman. That's all.

They'd make another one because they like the class. Just like some people make rogues on each side, or mages or priests. Some people will make a new shaman despite the fact tha they already have on. Whatever the case, the alliance being allowed to be shamans is going to screw up the population issue more than ever. The only hope is that tons of people start blood elfs because they're "pretty" to counter all the people who want to play a shaman but don't want to play horde, or the people who like the shaman and like the alliance content better.

Hahaha, I suppose that might be the case for many. That's another thing I heard of, "prettying" up the Horde and "uglying" up the Alliance. And as I said, that's not the main basis

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes, I know that. Doesn't mean I can't get bored by the look. Seeing as 3 zones all basically look the same, just with different colors. I could handle it if the quests and zones had better lore behind them, but for the horde, after the starting areas the lore goes south, unfortunately.

Originally posted by BackFire
The Burning Blade story was cool, but they ended it too quickly. The Defias one goes on through your twenties, makes leveling more engaging because there is a static story going on. Yes, getting quests from Thrall is sweet, but that doesn't change the storylines itself.

Maybe not the actual storyline. But it's evidently clear that the matter is actually important enough to concern the Warchief himself. If, say, the better chunk of the Defias quests came from General Marcus Jonathan, it'd be more interesting. With Thrall, you actually feel that you're doing something of importance.

Hell, the quests from him were grey for me a really long time ago and I'm just doing it because it peaks my interest.

Originally posted by BackFire
What's the fun of running through some cave? Stockades is nice and short, easy exp, very efficient. RFC is a waste of time, you don't get anything worth while. It's there as a tutorial for low level players to teach them about instances.

Originally posted by BackFire
How often do you look? On the servers I played on there were shit on there all the time. And even when there wasn't, you could sell your items that werent' needed for your faction, which is what you were complaining about to begin with.

Sure, you can sell them. But they don't always have the potential to make money. The Lightforge Belt, for example, I bought at the normal faction AH for just that when I was hoping to make some money. It took four times to just sell it, and it proved to be more of a deficit than a profit anyways.

Originally posted by BackFire
You're right, no one else could think of a better story to flesh out the idea because the idea is shitty to begin with. Blood Elves are evil, they're selfish, they would not be blessed with the power of the light. This "stealing the light" shit is so stupid, I can't believe they went with it. It would make more sense for the Orcs to be blessed with the powers of the light, seeing as they're a good hearted race, now.

And orc magic is strictly either shamanistic (natural magic that they learned in Draenor) or demonic (Warlock cults.) They're too stubborn and rigid. Why on Earth would they suddenly decide to take a venture in Holy magic? Leave that to the trolls, they're infinitely more adaptable in that sort of thing.

Originally posted by BackFire
No they wouldn't, each races priests worship a different god, shadow priests are no different. Either you didn't understand what I said, or you're lying. But you're right, Undead worshipping the same god as Dwarves is stupid, oh but the evil blood elves worshiping the same light god and being allowed to use the powers of the dwarves and humans is a-okay, right?

And I thought they stole it, remember? They're not "worshipping" shit at all.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- PvP gear should be nothing against Tier 2

I stick with my assumption that Stormstrike was used. Did you even try taking on the Shaman?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Soloing is really ineffective from mid to later levels simply because of the group exp modifier... moot point.... So basically because someone solos makes them not suck?.. I really dont see the logic in this..

Just because someone groups makes them hardcore? Really. Where's the logic in that either? Soloing means that you don't depend on about four, five other people to help you out.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- People get consumed by the magic they practice... why do you think people are 'afraid' of demonology.. and those who practice it must hide?

First of all, Demonology is the study of demons, meister. After the Burning Legion and the Scourge came, do you think everyone's going to embrace such a concept with open arms? No, they'd be reluctant. That's exactly why the Blood Elves were rejected by the Alliance in the first place.

Second, they don't "hide". It's not like their own people are out for their blood just because they have such a practise. They're a bit isolated from the others, such as the Cleft of Shadows in Orgrimmar, etc, but they're not completely rejected.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Its "More" of blizzards nonsense.. but because people like you see nothing wrong with it.. it exists

To "people like me" who see it and doesn't affect them in such a drastic way, they pass it on.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Apparently you've picked one of the non-abused classes of WoW which would lead to your 5 star rating hands down attitude about it.. my class got their talents a week before release.. not to mention their gameplay mechanics reworked.... how about yours? 🙂

I don't research dates of minor workings. If it's the final result, I stick with it. This is why they have patches to fix it if people send them floodloads of emails whining about it. Just because they were released a week before release doesn't mean they cobbled it together in like, half an hour.

If it's a major disruptive issue, they fix it. If it's a disturbance brought up by some modification they did, they're going to ignore it completely.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- I'm not nitpicking.. these are issues brought up by people other than myself as well.. call them nitpickers too.. oh , and their threads and posts also probably get stealth locked / deleted for going against the grain as well

I imagine they're part of the crowd of b*tchers that start blabbering as soon as they see something they don't like in the patch notes. And do you honestly think that they'd allow questioning of their 'modifications', something that in their minds, they 'fixed'? They'd allow reporting of major game issues, bugs, and minor shit, but it doesn't surprise me that their threads would be closed.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- You didnt understand the question.. to play as, or even have a paladin.. does not = playing the game at all... I was also correct in my assumption that you do not give a crap about paladins.. so why argue with me about this in the first place?

And I answered you already on this issue. I have a paladin as an alt; so far I have not had any complaints about any in-game issues with him. I'm content, so far.

Why argue with me on this? Why do you think? I'm surprised you even need to ask that.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- I'm obviously talking about level 60 pvp.. noob pvp doesnt count

No, you weren't "obviously" talking about level 60 PvP. No specifications at all.

"Noob" PvP? Oh, so you think lower level PvP doesn't count for shit? You're wrong. It's definitely not as effective as full out 60's going at it, but it's still worthwhile for some, especially if they get a Corporal's Insignia at an early level.

Try and think outside the box for once.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Demonology = study of demons.. you cant sugar coat that no matter how hard you try... kudos though

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Even death knights had to start somewhere right?.. they dont just go.. "yeah lich king.. gimme the real shit" and get mind controlled
they have their own ideals about whats going to go on before they realise that road leads to having no mind

He was a good Paladin, right? Sure, he gave off an impression that he was going crazy even before he claimed Frostmourne as his own. Look at his situation, though. He was going to become King soon, if he couldn't even find out a way to stop the Plague once and for all, what would that make him look like when it was time to step up to the throne? He was probably afraid that they'd come back to haunt him after he gained the Throne.

And then there's Frostmourne. It claimed his eternal soul. It doesn't mean that he 'chose' to become a Death Knight. He was trying to save his people by taking the "runeblade" that Muradin told him about. Which means that he sure as hell doesn't make the decisions anymore. He murdered his father in his corruption. Where else could he have turned? Nowhere.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Ugh. here we go again.. you said "dont post here". thats all you said and "this is for wow general"... you didnt say "lets continue this there" (by this I obviously mean 'our conversation'.. not just general chatter)... is english really your first language?.. I'd be shocked.. 😖

Yeah, I told you to not reply in that thread. Which you did.

I said that this belongs in the WoW General Thread, meaning "here'. You ignored it. Completely. Lana even had to come in and remind everyone, specifically you, to keep this "here'.

And no, English is my second language. And I'm apparently still better at grammar than you are, considering your grammar is extremely poor.

Dear, dear. Next time you lecture someone on English, make sure at least you spell it right.

Originally posted by SaTsuJin
- You just said "someone else complaining" got it changed.. then in the next sentence "complaining wont do dick"... gee... getting alot of mixxed input here.. whereever could it be coming from...

Yes? Good.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- lol.. the whole "if i were MOD omgz"... you aint... I went against the grain to ask if a class had a purpose.. which, since I was paying to play the game, I think I had a right to do... I 'asked'... not "stated".. theres a biiiiiiiiig difference there... I wanted peoples opinions.. not tell them what I thought.... cuz as you know its pretty obvious 🙂

Ludicrous.

Yes, you do have a right to ask. But do you think it'll make a difference at all? The correct answer is no. They'll read, but they won't listen. And it's worthless trying to spread anti WoW ideas around on their public forum. It's blasphemy.

Originally posted by DarkC
Then it doesn't make sense. Why would the paladin have gone down in three hits if it's "nothing" compared to Tier II?

I stick with my assumption that Stormstrike was used. Did you even try taking on the Shaman?

It's not ineffective. From the looks of it, you think of soloing as in solely grinding. Sure, that's ineffective, but what about quest grinding? Do you think that's ineffective as well? Many power levellers, some of my close friends among them, use that to their advantage.

Just because someone groups makes them hardcore? Really. Where's the logic in that either? Soloing means that you don't depend on about four, five other people to help you out.

Hahahahaha, where's your logic?

First of all, Demonology is the study of demons, meister. After the Burning Legion and the Scourge came, do you think everyone's going to embrace such a concept with open arms? No, they'd be reluctant. That's exactly why the Blood Elves were rejected by the Alliance in the first place.

Second, they don't "hide". It's not like their own people are out for their blood just because they have such a practise. They're a bit isolated from the others, such as the Cleft of Shadows in Orgrimmar, etc, but they're not completely rejected.

Was that a play on words?

To "people like me" who see it and doesn't affect them in such a drastic way, they pass it on.

If you don't like the way your class is being "treated", the simple way would be to one, stop playing the class; two, adapt to it; or three, stop playing the game completely.

I don't research dates of minor workings. If it's the final result, I stick with it. This is why they have patches to fix it if people send them floodloads of emails whining about it. Just because they were released a week before release doesn't mean they cobbled it together in like, half an hour.

If it's a major disruptive issue, they fix it. If it's a disturbance brought up by some modification they did, they're going to ignore it completely.

Nope, you're definitely "nitpicking".

I imagine they're part of the crowd of b*tchers that start blabbering as soon as they see something they don't like in the patch notes. And do you honestly think that they'd allow questioning of their 'modifications', something that in their minds, they 'fixed'? They'd allow reporting of major game issues, bugs, and minor shit, but it doesn't surprise me that their threads would be closed.

Yeah, I probably didn't understand the question. Most likely because you didn't word it the way it was supposed to be understood.

And I answered you already on this issue. I have a paladin as an alt; so far I have not had any complaints about any in-game issues with him. I'm content, so far.

Why argue with me on this? Why do you think? I'm surprised you even need to ask that.

Interesting choice of terms.

No, you weren't "obviously" talking about level 60 PvP. No specifications at all.

"Noob" PvP? Oh, so you think lower level PvP doesn't count for shit? You're wrong. It's definitely not as effective as full out 60's going at it, but it's still worthwhile for some, especially if they get a Corporal's Insignia at an early level.

Try and think outside the box for once.

I don't see why it's any different from dealing with demon magic. To me they're one and the same. No, I didn't try to 'sugar-coat' it. I explained it as I've read in Lord of the Clans and the War of the Ancients series, that's all.

No, that's incorrect. Look at Arthas, look at what happened to him.

He was a good Paladin, right? Sure, he gave off an impression that he was going crazy even before he claimed Frostmourne as his own. Look at his situation, though. He was going to become King soon, if he couldn't even find out a way to stop the Plague once and for all, what would that make him look like when it was time to step up to the throne? He was probably afraid that they'd come back to haunt him after he gained the Throne.

And then there's Frostmourne. It claimed his eternal soul. It doesn't mean that he 'chose' to become a Death Knight. He was trying to save his people by taking the "runeblade" that Muradin told him about. Which means that he sure as hell doesn't make the decisions anymore. He murdered his father in his corruption. Where else could he have turned? Nowhere.

Hahahahahaha!

Yeah, I told you to not reply in that thread. Which you did.

I said that this belongs in the WoW General Thread, meaning "here'. You ignored it. Completely. Lana even had to come in and remind everyone, specifically you, to keep this "here'.

And no, English is my second language. And I'm apparently still better at grammar than you are, considering your grammar is extremely poor.

Dear, dear. Next time you lecture someone on English, make sure at least you spell it right.

No. I was implying that if you had an issue, you should complain to Blizzard and not a bunch of random people with no influence with Blizzard. Are we clear on this?

Yes? Good.

Hahahahaha, just because I say that "this is what I would have done", you automatically label me as one of those "if i were a modz lawl" people.

Ludicrous.

Yes, you do have a right to ask. But do you think it'll make a difference at all? The correct answer is no. They'll read, but they won't listen. And it's worthless trying to spread anti WoW ideas around on their public forum. It's blasphemy.

- I was leveling my priest (or rogue at the time I think)... plus this was happening in southshore and my pally was logged out @ the loch modan flight point

- Stormstrike is for 2-hander shamans isnt it? (well.. more effective for 2-handers at least)... he didnt slap her once.. just the good old chain lightning into some shocks

- I didnt say grouping makes you hardcore ( /sigh... ) ... I said you get a group exp bonus tacked on to your regular and rest exp... so while it can be 'cool' to solo... its not as efficient as it sounds

- When people dont practice stuff out in the open... its quite clear to see that its because noone (as in society) wants to see it... it really has nothing to do with 'keeping to oneself'

- Interesting.. I already mentioned demonology is a study of demons.. and you still havent made a good refute on how "Dark magic consumes its wielder"... there are a very few rare cases where it doesnt... those are true masters.. like that NPC dude out in azshara who has two or more felhunter pets heh

- "Noob" pvp doesnt count because its all a race to see who gets the better skills first... i.e. a level 8 mage will be sheeping everyones ass while level 8 everyone else has crap skills to defend themselves with... level 60 the only excuse is gear, which is why I have much more respect for it

- Ok so, if Warlock-ism is sooooo similar.. why arent we getting blood elves?.. wouldnt it only be appropriate that if we accept the practices of demonology, but on a hush-hush level, that we would also accept those who feed off of its power?

- I'm pretty sure arthas killed those people in their sleep long before acquiring frostmourne... after acquiring frostmourne, he became a deathknight, and ganked his father... the character must traverse a road before coming to that climactic point of having his whole persona changed entirely... and his road was obsession with saving his people that twisted into a sortof "I'll stop at nothing to kill them all" (meaning the scourge and Tichondrius(?))... of course 'stopping at nothing' meant throwing aside any regard for other peoples lives

- He merely took frostmourne for more power, which was the final seal on his fate.. he had intended to kill scourge with it yes.. but as I said above was still in his "I'll stop at nothing" state of mind.

- Why argue with me on this? well to answer that.. you seemed to be eager to let me know that giving paladin to horde... blood elves of all people... was a totally logical step-forward in developement.. and perhaps one of blizzards best stories ever.. according to your discussion with backfire

- so talking... on a forum where people talk / discuss / gab / blabber on such things as "I have popcorn in my nose" and "what are you listening to right now omgz"... discussing the class evolution (Yes, we could be talking about other aspects of the game) of an MMO.. one thats played by 50% of all MMO'ers.. does not count for a meaningful discussion?... I know I'm clear on that.. how about you? 🙂

- what do you mean "The correct answer is no" ?... I didnt fossilize a correct answer within the dark recesses of my "evil" thread... I truely wanted to know what people thought.. especially the people who took a paladin to level 60... How is this Anti-WoW again? lol... they seemed to have a "Vision" of what they wanted paladin to be... I wanted to know if the current paladin, the seed of said vision, felt like it had any real place among these uber classes, that can talent and become strong in whatever area they wish

Because my main concern with the paladin class is its inability to become great at a particular area, even though you invest all of your talent points in it.. where as a warrior (the best Tank, best DPS) and the priest (best heals, best DPS) can achieve these goals through talents

So what exactly do you believe can come from such a ludicrous thing as a blood elf being paladin.. (who even blizzard themselves have named Blood Knight) ?

P.S. (forgive me, I didnt make the time limit as I didnt notice your snot-coated comment til afterwards)

English is my second language. And I'm apparently still better at grammar than you are, considering your grammar is extremely poor.
Dear, dear. Next time you lecture someone on English, make sure at least you spell it right.

grammar on a forum? dont make me laugh... are you talking about how I use periods to traverse into a pause before saying something, instead of abruptly ending each sentence with a period?.. and no I dont use commas before n and t for dont because its a waste of my time... "spelling" you say?... capitolization is not spelling... just FYI...thats another state of grammar... and what exactly did I spell wrong?.... and I really hope you're not referring to a typo for your backup.. that would be a level of sad that defies the fabric of sadness

also.. attacking spelling / grammar pales in comparison to the ability to convey simple thoughts.. which is something you seem to lack in, as you enjoy twisting someones words, or just ignoring them entirely

heres a simple exchange exemplifying your 'word play' which I would like to just call.. ESL gibberish.. :

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Soloing is really ineffective from mid to later levels simply because of the group exp modifier... moot point.... So basically because someone solos makes them not suck?.. I really dont see the logic in this..

DarkC : It's not ineffective. From the looks of it, you think of soloing as in solely grinding. Sure, that's ineffective, but what about quest grinding? Do you think that's ineffective as well? Many power levellers, some of my close friends among them, use that to their advantage.

Just because someone groups makes them hardcore? Really. Where's the logic in that either? Soloing means that you don't depend on about four, five other people to help you out.

now... you did follow up until the 2nd part.. but when the hell did I say grouping makes someone hardcore?... your point about the paladin class was "its one of the best soloers"... so I asked in return, how the hell does the ability to solo make a class good? and thus nullify that I said the class is gimped? is soloing supposed to make me feel good, now that I'm level 60?... lamez0rz... next prz.. kek

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3219062705914694215&hl=en

Originally posted by taft
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3219062705914694215&hl=en

I love that song.

hehe my lock pwns, just thought id tell you all.
and im joining the guild soon enough

Originally posted by bogen
hehe my lock pwns, just thought id tell you all.
and im joining the guild soon enough

You Have a Warlock On Terenas?

New UI leftright

Is it true that you can go and counqer other Faction lands for you Faction?