Yes Evolution is a fact in nature. There is even an overwhelming possibility that this is where humanity came from, but not existence itself.
I am in no way trying to disprove evolution, i to believe in Evolution, this doesnt mean i cant believe in a God, and if you believe that believeing a God is all about Creationlism, then you have no idea what having Faith is all about.I dont care if you have Faith or not, but know what it is before you debate it. Obviously from your statement above , you are someone who is against people believing in somthing you dont and having open minds to many possibilities.
TO isn't "against people believing in something she doesn't," and I would hope no one here is. It's a matter of creationists saying "evolution is wrong and never happened," when evolution has tons of scientific proof, while they believe in a however-many-thousand-year-old book on blind faith, with no proof whatsoever. Who's to say that God created the world through creation? Maybe he created it through evolution, ever think about that?
[/rant]
😮 Sorry if I offend anyone... I'm just trying to throw ideas out here... *goes back to lurking*
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jekyll†hyde
[B]"Overwhelming possibility?" And why, in your opinion, couldn't the other animals have evolved? Why just the humans?
Who's to say that God created the world through creation? Maybe he created it through evolution, ever think about that?
[/rant]
yeah, meant evolution for all life, i have even pointed out the possibility of A God creating humanity through evolution.
RagesRemorse> Where did I say ”that leavng the possibility of religoun open for belief is not being open minded but ignorant?” You sound like some brainwashed person programmed to fly off the handle, because I dare criticise the contents of your pledge of allegiance.
The fact remains that some people are religious – some are not. State and church MUST be separated to encompass all. If you want to tend to your culturally accepted delusion that is your deal. But why should an atheist have to say “God” when pledging allegiance?
“Humanity has no scientific evidence whatsoever of how creation started.” If we’re talking Big Bang I suggest you go check out WMAP, and background microwave radiation. If you talk about the precursors of life – there’s nothing indicating any divine being did anything. Then OR now.
“Believing a religoun isnt necessarily about believing creatinlism, but more about Faith.” Say you! Check out The Forces post – a devout Christian – and you’ll find another account of what being religious is about.
“It is because of Faith that belief in a God (creator) cannot be proven wrong, only dissputed.”
It’s not my job to disprove. You cannot prove a negative, RM. It’s YOUR job to prove your assertion. (Go read my post on flying reindeer otherwise). You cannot disprove aliens , can you? Ok, so does that mean aliens kidnap people, mutilate cows and make crop-circles?
“Now evolution is like religoun in this instance for the fact that instead of Faith it has science on it's side.”
No, evolution has nothing to DO with religion. Don’t insult science. Science is based on facts, observations, calculations, tests, more experiments, and discussions among people who know a whole lot more about the subject than YOU do.
Religion deals with believing in something in the ABSENCE of proof. So, evolution is NOT religion as it is NOT believing in something in the absence of proof.
Yes, there are many people who believe in a god and trust evolution as well – and well they should, as science is what gave you the comp you sit by right now. Some believe the Bible must be taken literally – how am I supposed to know who’s right among them?
“You also said that when it comes to religoun, It is no longer about having an open mind.”
No, wrong: I said Also – keeping an open mind is very good. But when Creationism is so blatantly flawed and doesn’t have a single shred of the shadow of evidence to back it up, it’s not about being open-minded anymore.
Read what I write!
“and completly disbanding the possibility of there have been Being weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is completly irrelevent in this conversation, but if you insist, why is it so stupid to believe that there were weapons of mass destruction?”
Can you MAKE up your mind? Irrelevant or relevant?
It is stupid to believe in WMD in Iraq, because both the weapons inspectors prior to the war, and the army now, has not found a single can of anything that can be remotely interpreted as having been near a picture of a WMD.
As stupid as saying the Universe was created 6000 years ago. Otherwise – give me proof to back up your claims.
Creationism IS closed-minded. You accept some stuff without proof – you listen to lying Creationists claiming they’ve found proof against evolution – and you disbelieve science and the scientific method. What eventually brought forth your comp was done through the same scientific method on which the branch of biology known as evolution is based.
Tpt> Ah, I heard it was to get to the Iraqi oil before the Chinese did 😄 Who knows. I’m not talking about the REASONS for the war, but what WE were TOLD.
Omega i'm not going to pretend that i know more about science than you but i suggest that you read the infromation on this website.
www.Duke.edu/~jfk2/truth.html I know this maybe off topic alot but read the reaserch paper and then tell me what you think about it.
Oh no! RR has incited the rage of TO! Run!!
*Cowers in corner*
P89> I read some of it and it seemed like he as trying hard to be unbiased but the porblem with the Bible is the dates are unknown. Even though he used the bible like it was written s it happened it could have been written after but made to seem like it was at that time. The bible is very hard to reference historicly.
Predator 89> “This is a pretty lengthy paper…”
No thank you. Can you tell me if there’s any solid evidence of Creationism there, and where it is?
And OF COURSE you can find archaeological evidence to support some sites and people from the Bible, as some of these people did exist. THAT doesn’t mean any divine being exists. There is archaeological evidence for Muhammed, too.
Tpt> No no… I’m… calm! We, who’ve ascended the Pagoda of Six Harmonies are… calm… yes… 🙂
Originally posted by speiderman
Science is a tool that God uses to create life.
How do you know? Prove that, please.
Thank you for taking the time to consider the infromation i found on-line. My goal as to posting this evidence is that if a man could have predicted the fall of Babylon 200 yrs before it happened the information must have come from a higher power. Omega if you are truly interested in science and history and above all the truth then you will read it. Its acctualy interesting really...
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Originally posted by speiderman
Science is a tool that God uses to create life.
---How do you know? Prove that, please-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prove to me that the universe can be creaed out of errant chaos or in your words a Big bang. BTW Doppler effect doesnt count.
Predator> In the course of being part of THIS thread I’ve wasted enough time on strange web-sites that turn out to NOT give proof of anything.
”My goal as to posting this evidence is that if a man could have predicted the fall of Babylon 200 yrs before it happened the information must have come from a higher power.”
Well, tell me WHERE on said web-site this prediction was made, which chapter from the Bible it’s from and how we know it wasn’t rewritten later on.
”Omega if you are truly interested in science and history and above all the truth then you will read it. Its acctualy interesting really...”
Predator, I have read the strangest sites posted here – therefore I’m wary of perhaps wasting my time reading ANOTHER odd account that gives me NO proof.
So – direct me to WHERE on this site there is proof of ANYTHING, then I’ll be ALL over it.
The Prophecies:
The prophecies concerning the fall of Babylon that I researched are as follows:
Isaiah 21:1-2
“An oracle concerning the Desert by the Sea: [Babylon] Like whirlwinds sweeping through the southland, an invader comes from the desert, from a land of terror. A dire vision has been shown to me: The traitor betrays, the looter takes loot. Elam [Persia], attack! Media [Medes], lay siege! I will bring to an end all the groaning she caused”
Isaiah 21:5
“They set the tables, they spread the rugs, they eat, they drink! Get up you officers, oil the shields!”
Isaiah 47:9
“Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day: loss of children and widowhood. They will come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and all your potent spells”
Isaiah 13:19-22
”Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the glory of the Babylonians’ pride, will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah. She will never be inhabited or lived in through all generations; no Arab will pitch his tent there, no shepherd will rest his flocks there, jackals will fill her houses; there the owls will dwell, and here the wild goats will lead about. Hyenas will howl in her strongholds, jackals in her luxurious palaces. Her time is at hand, and her days will not be prolonged”
Isaiah 44:28
[I am the Lord] who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, “Let it be rebuilt,” and of the temple, “Let its foundations be laid.”’
Isaiah 45:1-2
“This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue the nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron”
Habakkuk 2:16
“You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed! The cup of the Lord’s right hand is coming around you, and disgrace will cover your glory”
Jeremiah 51:36-37
“Therefore this is what the Lord says: ‘See, I will defend your cause and avenge you; I will dry up her sea and make her springs dry. Babylon will be a heap of ruins, a haunt of jackals, an object of horror and scorn, a place where no one lives”
Jeremiah 27:6-7 (To the kings of Edom, Moab, Ammon, Tyre and Sidon, Israel)
“Now I will hand all your countries over to my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; I will make even the wild animals subject to him. All nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until the time for his land comes; then many nations and great kings will subjugate him”
Jeremiah 25:11-12
“This whole country will serve the king of Babylon seventy years. But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt,” declares the Lord, “and will make it desolate forever”
Dates of these Prophecies
Newsome, James D. The Hebrew Prophets. John Knox Press: Atlanta, 1984.
Isaiah’s Work: 742-701 B.C.
Location: Jerusalem
Evidence: Isaiah writes: “In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw…” (Isa. 6:1)
King Uzziah’s reign ended in 742 BC, and this writer seems to
end his work with the Assyrian crisis which was in the year 701 BC.
Ancient records of Israel’s kings in addition to cuneiform inscriptions
were used to trace the dates of reign of each king.
Habbakuk’s Work: 610-600 B.C.
Location: Jerusalem?
Evidence: His work describes the coming of the Babylonians and refers to them
as the Chaldeans (Hab. 1:6) which is the name given to the Neo- Babylonian kings of this time since they came from the area of southern Mesopotamia.
Jeremiah’s Work: 627 to some time after 587 B.C.
Location: Jerusalem
Evidence: Jeremiah speaks of events and prophesizes against the kings Jehoiakim,
Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah who reigned in the decades surrounding
the Babylonian invasion in 586 B.C.
Non-Biblical Evidence of these dates of Prophecy
Larue, Gerald. Babylon and the Bible. Baker Books: Grand Rapids, 1969.
A growing number of artifacts and inscriptions are and have surfaced around archaeological digs in the Middle east that have shed an incredible amount of light concerning the events surrounding the fall of Babylon. These inscriptions, along with ancient historians, are the basis not only for the dating of the prophets, but also for the truth about the fall of this great city and the prophecies surrounding it.
The Jehoiachin Tablet (pg. 66-67)
Ruins of a building near the Ishtar gate in former Babylon reveal several clay tablets that are dated between 595 and 570 B.C. They have to do with rations for the peoples under the Babylonian empire. One tablet broken into three parts mentions: “Yaukin, king of Yahud” which is translated to “Jehoiachin, king of Judah”. This along with other tablets form the factual basis for the dating of the kings mentioned in the Bible.
The Babylonian Chronicles (pg. 67)
Tablets which were prepared during the 6th Century BC which summarize events in the Babylonian and Chaldean history from the reign of Nabopolassar (1st king of the Neo-Babylonian empire) through the reign of Nebuchadnezzar. The events described follow events written down in the Bible (such as the events surrounding Nebuchadnezzar written in the book of Daniel), and hence provides another dating basis for Biblical events.
Other sources are available (ex: Dead Sea Scrolls) and some will be described later, but these two sources are examples of how the prophecies have been dated.
Predator> Okay, so let’s ASSUME we must take the bible literally, okay?
Tell me which is right:
Mt.2:14
"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt."
Lk.2:39
"And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."
Then let’s assume we must take the DATES to be right.
If you pay any credence to the New Testament of the Christian Bible, there are at least two different dates and eras given to represent the birth of Christ.
1. The reign of king Herod, Found only in Matthew. Herod died in 4 BC So the " birth of Christ " must have been before the “official” Birth of Christ date.
2. In Luke, Jesus Christ is born at the time of the census Which is well documented in Roman records as being 6 A.D. This couldn't have been at the same time as Matthew's account as this was ten years after King Herod's death. And further more ths puts the " birth of Christ ", six years after the official Birth of Christ date.
So?